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  • Land Registry
    In 1992 Mr&Mrs A own a property as joint tenants,In 1993 Mr.A accepts a Classiii legal charge for 20,000 secured against the property by his mother which is still registered on the land charge register. Mr.&Mrs A divorce in 1996,and by order of the courts a deed of conveyance transferes Mr A, share of the property to Mrs A and her new husband for the sum of 6,000. Bearing in mind the above dates would the last transfere have automatically triggered compulsory registration of the property.To date the property has not been registered at Land Registry,and the legal charge is still outstanding,their have been no further transferes of ownership of the property.If anyone could please advise as to whether the property should have been registered this would be of great help in the matter. Thankyou.
    Originally posted by castlebar
    Compulsory registration covered the whole of England and Wales in 1990 so I would expect any transfer of legal ownership after that date to trigger first registration.

    Your terminology raises some Qs though as you refer to '...by order of the courts a deed of conveyance transferes Mr A, share of the property to Mrs A and her new husband for the sum of 6,000' - you can't transfer a share of the legal ownership in registration terms as it's the whole which has to be transferred. The end result may be seen as effecting a transfer of someone's share in the value though.

    If the court ordered that the property be transferred from joint names to a sole name; a Conveyance was then drawn up by the 2 to 1; and then executed I would expect that have triggered the need to then register the property in the sole name.

    The devil is always in the detail so it's key to look at what legal deed (if any) was completed re the legal (not beneficial) ownership.
    Last edited by Land Registry; 02-01-2018 at 10:23 AM.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • castlebar
    • By castlebar 1st Jan 18, 7:53 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    castlebar
    Thankyou for the reply I will try to clarify a few points.At the time of the divorce Mr.& Mrs.A were beneficial joint tenants of the property,the court ordered Mr.A to convey all his estate and interest in the property,to his ex wife and her new husband for the sum of 6,000.The title was transferred to the new owners as tenants in common.As this happened in 1996 long after compulsory registration had been introduced in the district affected by this transfere is it possible it did not need to be registered because of the court order,or the fact Mrs A was a joint tenant prior to the divorce and a tenant in common after.
  • Land Registry
    Thankyou for the reply I will try to clarify a few points.At the time of the divorce Mr.& Mrs.A were beneficial joint tenants of the property,the court ordered Mr.A to convey all his estate and interest in the property,to his ex wife and her new husband for the sum of 6,000.The title was transferred to the new owners as tenants in common.As this happened in 1996 long after compulsory registration had been introduced in the district affected by this transfere is it possible it did not need to be registered because of the court order,or the fact Mrs A was a joint tenant prior to the divorce and a tenant in common after.
    Originally posted by castlebar
    Neither the court order or how the beneficial ownership was held before or after should have impacted on the need to register
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • castlebar
    • By castlebar 4th Jan 18, 7:27 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    castlebar
    Would I be right in saying that if the deed of conveyance was executed but not registered with land registry,for 20+years,it would now be void and the ownership of the property would revert back to the previous conveyance.
  • Land Registry
    Would I be right in saying that if the deed of conveyance was executed but not registered with land registry,for 20+years,it would now be void and the ownership of the property would revert back to the previous conveyance.
    Originally posted by castlebar
    That's a legal matter really but from a registration perspective by not registering the change of ownership the legal title invariably remains in the hands of the seller

    However you refer to it as a 'conveyance' so that will relate to unregistered land/property. If that was dated/executed prior to the date upon which compulsory registration was introduced in the area, then it should still be legally valid.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • luckypotato
    • By luckypotato 5th Jan 18, 10:00 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    luckypotato
    Discrepencies between current land registry plan and original title plan.
    Hi,

    I have already posted this elsewhere but would appreciate a reply from the Land Registry. Many thanks in advance.

    My partner and I are in the process of buying a house. We love it. It's a 1930s semi. We have received draft contracts, etc from our conveyancer. The current land registry plan, with boundaries highlighted in red, seems accurate and shows the plot and back garden area that we were expecting.

    However, looking at the original title deed from the 1930s with attached plan, with the land highlighted in green shows a much smaller back garden area. It 'appears' as if the house we are looking to buy has somehow eaten into next door's back garden. Is it vital we find an explanation for this? Which plan is correct and should we be concerned?

    Any advice greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
  • Land Registry
    Hi,

    I have already posted this elsewhere but would appreciate a reply from the Land Registry. Many thanks in advance.

    My partner and I are in the process of buying a house. We love it. It's a 1930s semi. We have received draft contracts, etc from our conveyancer. The current land registry plan, with boundaries highlighted in red, seems accurate and shows the plot and back garden area that we were expecting.

    However, looking at the original title deed from the 1930s with attached plan, with the land highlighted in green shows a much smaller back garden area. It 'appears' as if the house we are looking to buy has somehow eaten into next door's back garden. Is it vital we find an explanation for this? Which plan is correct and should we be concerned?

    Any advice greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
    Originally posted by luckypotato
    It's the title plan you would refer to to understand what extent you are buying.

    If you want to understand how the title 'grew' to it's current extent then something you can ask the selelr but they me unaware. But also worth asking your solicitor for their thoughts as well
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • luckypotato
    • By luckypotato 5th Jan 18, 12:37 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    luckypotato
    It's the title plan you would refer to to understand what extent you are buying.

    If you want to understand how the title 'grew' to it's current extent then something you can ask the selelr but they me unaware. But also worth asking your solicitor for their thoughts as well
    Sorry - just to clarify, do you mean the current official copy of the title plan and not the original from the 1930s to understand what we are buying.

    I have a niggliing (possibly irrational) worry that a future owner of next door may try to claim the land in the back garden is rightly theirs if we cannot discover how it came to be ours... if that makes sense. Thanks again.
  • Land Registry
    Sorry - just to clarify, do you mean the current official copy of the title plan and not the original from the 1930s to understand what we are buying.

    I have a niggliing (possibly irrational) worry that a future owner of next door may try to claim the land in the back garden is rightly theirs if we cannot discover how it came to be ours... if that makes sense. Thanks again.
    Originally posted by luckypotato
    The registered title plan. The conveyance plan is simply a plan to that particular conveyance and relevant to that time, namely 1930 and what was being conveyed.

    If oyu have concernes that the registered title is incorrect then you should raise that with your solicitor/the seller as appropriate. But it is the registered title you are buying and not the land defined by the 1930 conveyance
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • luckypotato
    • By luckypotato 5th Jan 18, 12:44 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    luckypotato
    The registered title plan. The conveyance plan is simply a plan to that particular conveyance and relevant to that time, namely 1930 and what was being conveyed.

    If oyu have concernes that the registered title is incorrect then you should raise that with your solicitor/the seller as appropriate. But it is the registered title you are buying and not the land defined by the 1930 conveyance
    Perfect - thank you very much. This puts my mind at ease. The registered title plan is exactly how we see the land.
    • spendinglikemad
    • By spendinglikemad 5th Jan 18, 4:57 PM
    • 287 Posts
    • 1,636 Thanks
    spendinglikemad
    All a question of how the error occurred, who is affected and how it can be corrected.

    Best case scenario is that we got it wrong, the land is unregistered and the land is clearly in your ownership. No registration fee normally and reasonably quick, a few weeks.

    If the error was in the deeds/conveyancing so the land was never included but the boundaries put up to include then much longer and a fee, minimum 40 but if we have to do a survey/inspection then can include an extra 90 fee. Timescale 3 months minimum

    Identifying what has happened and why is crucial to understand how to get the land registered/included

    If an application is made and there is a definite and confirmed buyer then the 'wait time' can be shortened in the latter case to a few weeks also

    The devil is all in the detail though so all depends on what's wrong, how it happened and how you try to correct it/market it. Your solicitor can then help with possible next steps
    Originally posted by Land Registry
    Thank you - our solicitor has confirmed to us (and discussed with the buyers solicitor) that we should apply for adverse possession of the land and the forms have been completed. What are the current estimated timings for this to be completed at the land registry?

    Thanks

    SLM
    Family of 4 plus cat & pup!
    • VivaGK
    • By VivaGK 7th Jan 18, 8:56 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    VivaGK
    Hi, I was hoping to gain a bit of insight on an issue we are having.

    We have the TP1 for our property from 2006, the land was split with a property either side, access way/driveway down the middle with a turning point at the top of that. Access way/turning head are split down the middle. On the TP1 there is supposed to be a pink section which is our land/house and a light pink area that denotes the access way, the same for the neighbour but in orange and light orange. The issue has arisen as the light coloured area aren't really visible on the TP1 scans we have. We bought the property in 2014, so were not the owners at this time.

    There was confusion as we have said our house and parking is on the pink (which it is), but buyer's solicitor have said they can't advise the buyer to proceed without us applying to the Land Registry for rectification. Our solicitor has explained that the shading is unclear, but that if you enlarge it you can see the lighter areas. Obviously when physically at the house or looking at the sales particulars you can see it isn't built on the driveway, however buyer's solicitor is pushing for rectification.

    Does anyone have any idea of the process of applying for rectification? Or a rough timescale?

    We were due to exchange on Friday, our buyer had paid her deposit and gone in to sign, but then when our solicitor called to exchange, the buyer's solicitor raised this. We are due to emigrate so the situation really needs sorting ASAP.
  • Land Registry
    Thank you - our solicitor has confirmed to us (and discussed with the buyers solicitor) that we should apply for adverse possession of the land and the forms have been completed. What are the current estimated timings for this to be completed at the land registry?

    Thanks

    SLM
    Originally posted by spendinglikemad
    A first registration is taking on average around 62 working days. If there is an onward sale to a confirmed buyer then your solicitir should submit their application and then make us aware, with details, and ask us to expedite the process.

    If all in order it may still take 5/6 weeks to complete as often we have to survey the site of the claim as well but still a lot shorter than the average timescale
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    Hi, I was hoping to gain a bit of insight on an issue we are having.

    We have the TP1 for our property from 2006, the land was split with a property either side, access way/driveway down the middle with a turning point at the top of that. Access way/turning head are split down the middle. On the TP1 there is supposed to be a pink section which is our land/house and a light pink area that denotes the access way, the same for the neighbour but in orange and light orange. The issue has arisen as the light coloured area aren't really visible on the TP1 scans we have. We bought the property in 2014, so were not the owners at this time.

    There was confusion as we have said our house and parking is on the pink (which it is), but buyer's solicitor have said they can't advise the buyer to proceed without us applying to the Land Registry for rectification. Our solicitor has explained that the shading is unclear, but that if you enlarge it you can see the lighter areas. Obviously when physically at the house or looking at the sales particulars you can see it isn't built on the driveway, however buyer's solicitor is pushing for rectification.

    Does anyone have any idea of the process of applying for rectification? Or a rough timescale?

    We were due to exchange on Friday, our buyer had paid her deposit and gone in to sign, but then when our solicitor called to exchange, the buyer's solicitor raised this. We are due to emigrate so the situation really needs sorting ASAP.
    Originally posted by VivaGK
    In my experience the only way to 'rectify' such an issue is to produce a copy of the TP1 with better colouring. We will only have the scanned copy.

    If the solicitor writes to us to ask if we have a better copy or if we can change anything then we'd normally respond within a few days. But I'd speak to your solicitor to ascertain how they believe it can be rectified first.

    If that can't be done then I suspect the only way forward is to discuss with the buyer's solicitor what they will accept e.g indemnity insurance but very much something to discuss with your own solicitor first.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • spendinglikemad
    • By spendinglikemad 8th Jan 18, 8:00 AM
    • 287 Posts
    • 1,636 Thanks
    spendinglikemad
    A first registration is taking on average around 62 working days. If there is an onward sale to a confirmed buyer then your solicitir should submit their application and then make us aware, with details, and ask us to expedite the process.

    If all in order it may still take 5/6 weeks to complete as often we have to survey the site of the claim as well but still a lot shorter than the average timescale
    Originally posted by Land Registry
    Thank you!
    Family of 4 plus cat & pup!
    • VivaGK
    • By VivaGK 8th Jan 18, 5:01 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    VivaGK
    In my experience the only way to 'rectify' such an issue is to produce a copy of the TP1 with better colouring. We will only have the scanned copy.

    If the solicitor writes to us to ask if we have a better copy or if we can change anything then we'd normally respond within a few days. But I'd speak to your solicitor to ascertain how they believe it can be rectified first.

    If that can't be done then I suspect the only way forward is to discuss with the buyer's solicitor what they will accept e.g indemnity insurance but very much something to discuss with your own solicitor first.
    Originally posted by Land Registry
    Thank you for your response. Our solicitor has spoken to the Land Registry today, who have confirmed that the shaded ares are visible upon enlargement.

    The buyer's solicitor has now told us that it is in fact the shading and boundaries that are incorrect, and need to be rectified. However we have a letter and new boundary plan dated 2007, which appears to rectify the 2006 TP1. Our solicitor is confident this paperwork is all that is needed, so hopefully it will be sorted soon.
    • tombunt
    • By tombunt 10th Jan 18, 3:45 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    tombunt
    Hi, how do I post on here? Thanks.
    • tombunt
    • By tombunt 10th Jan 18, 3:49 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    tombunt
    splitting land
    Hi, my parents own their house, it's an end house with garages next to it.. they want to split the large garden so they can have storage that is accessible from council land and then they want to sell the house and move away then come back and forth to use the storage. Would it just be a case of changing the border on the deeds?. Thanks.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Jan 18, 4:02 PM
    • 44,472 Posts
    • 52,813 Thanks
    G_M
    No.

    They would need to create a new Title for the storage, so that instead of a single Title for the existing house and garden there woul be two - the original one for the house (with altered/reduced boundary) which could be sold, and one for the (new) storage area (with new Plan showing its boundary.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 10th Jan 18, 4:06 PM
    • 29,392 Posts
    • 75,044 Thanks
    Mojisola
    they want to split the large garden so they can have storage that is accessible from council land and then they want to sell the house and move away then come back and forth to use the storage.
    Originally posted by tombunt
    Is it accessible or is there an actual right of access?

    The council may not allow access if a new exit is made onto their property.
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