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  • Land Registry
    I have a restriction on a property that I no longer need. (I had a chap's interest in a property charged and protected by a restriction. He has now paid in full.)

    Question 7 refers to "Documents lodged with this form". Is it necessary to send anything? I am the only beneficiary of the restriction and I'm signing to say I no longer need it....

    Next question: It seems too easy to simply sign this and send it off. Couldn't anybody do this? Do I need to send of any identity verification stuff?

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Originally posted by Jim1975
    If you are the beneficiary, so in effect the restrictioner and not the owner, you can apply to withdraw your restriction using form RX4.
    Panel 10 of the form allows you to make the appropriate statement and/or submit any supporting documents as needed.

    You don't submit evidence of your identity.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • buildingbig
    • By buildingbig 8th Jan 20, 10:29 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    buildingbig
    Hi Land Registry helpers!

    I recently bought a property and now want to remortgage (bridging loan) to raise finance for refurbishment. The lender says that they won't complete until the registration is done (it's a first registration) and my solicitor says you have a backlog of up to 113 days for first registrations.

    Is this true?

    And is there anything I can do to expedite? It's a little desperate as the builders are going full throttle and the money is running out (will be coming soon, but not soon enough, from a house sale).

    Many thanks
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 8th Jan 20, 10:51 AM
    • 14,413 Posts
    • 16,852 Thanks
    davidmcn
    Thank you... as soon as I can find where to post a new thread, I'll do so
    Originally posted by DAKOTA45
    This forum is the correct place for it. Just not this thread.

    My friend was contacted anonymously by someone at RoS (Register of Scotland), and what they told her was that an outgoing landowner of some high standing had fraudulently burdened her property without her knowledge, and due to the passage of time, the incoming owners have now gained prescriptive rights over her land.
    My friend believes that an unsigned 'agreement' (in relation to an old pipe which used to supply water from a well, and dated 1900), was probably never implemented and was in fact a draft copy, and that the prospective grantee had died just 4 months after the matter was raised.
    RoS has stated that the only document they hold is the unsigned one.
    Whether the RoS has acted in good faith in recording this burden over her land, or if they are jointly liable of fraudulent activity.... it would seem to be very suspect, due to this anonymous person's evidence.
    She wants to make a complaint, but I doubt there can be any rectification, due to the prescriptive rights gained due to the RoS's incompetence, whether deliberate or not.
    She has not instructed a solicitor, but has been advised by RoS to either contact Police Scotland or to use its own fraud officer, but whether or not they woud be impartial.
    Originally posted by DAKOTA45
    Much of this sounds fairly improbable. Perhaps the story has been garbled. I've never heard of the Land Register having anonymous "whistleblowers" who unofficially contact proprietors. I also don't see what the point of registering the deed would be, if the pipe in question has never existed? Or an indication that there's been any crime.

    In any event, prescriptive rights are those which don't derive from a written grant, but from use (over a period of at least 20 years). And conversely, if rights haven't been exercised for over 20 years, they fall away. So the rights in question have never been exercised, it should be relatively straightforward for your friend to have them removed from their title (or at least contest any attempts to start exercising them).
    Last edited by davidmcn; 08-01-2020 at 11:48 AM.
    • mcphail
    • By mcphail 8th Jan 20, 11:11 AM
    • 366 Posts
    • 1,137 Thanks
    mcphail
    Morning. I've received good advice from this forum, but just wanted to check with the Land Registry if what I need to do is correct.

    I'm changing 3 properties that are in my sole name (and no mortgage) to add my husband on to the Title Deeds. Do I fill in form AP1 to change the register, or is it form TR1 (whole transfer). I'm assuming it is AP1, but just wanted to make sure before I do it.

    Also, is it easy enough to do it without involving a solicitor?

    I did look at doing a Declaration of Trust, as we want the rental income to be split 50/50 from April, but next year, we may mortgage one of the properties on a BTL, and I'm assuming it may be better to get a mortgage on joint ownership?

    Thank you once again for any advice given.
  • Land Registry
    Morning. I've received good advice from this forum, but just wanted to check with the Land Registry if what I need to do is correct.

    I'm changing 3 properties that are in my sole name (and no mortgage) to add my husband on to the Title Deeds. Do I fill in form AP1 to change the register, or is it form TR1 (whole transfer). I'm assuming it is AP1, but just wanted to make sure before I do it.

    Also, is it easy enough to do it without involving a solicitor?

    I did look at doing a Declaration of Trust, as we want the rental income to be split 50/50 from April, but next year, we may mortgage one of the properties on a BTL, and I'm assuming it may be better to get a mortgage on joint ownership?

    Thank you once again for any advice given.
    Originally posted by mcphail
    Form AP1 is the application form
    Form TR1 is the legal deed/the transfer form
    So you need both

    If you do it yourselves then you’ll also need to have your identities verified - form ID1

    We would always recommend you use a conveyancer. You don’t have to but they know the forms/process, can verify your identities. And in light of your reference to 50/50, renting, assumptions re a joint mortgage and BTL offer wider advice as well
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • LeelaChar
    • By LeelaChar 8th Jan 20, 6:18 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    LeelaChar
    Hi,
    How long does it take to process a transfer of equity?
    Thanks
  • Land Registry
    Hi,
    How long does it take to process a transfer of equity?
    Thanks
    Originally posted by LeelaChar
    If it's an update to an existing register then the average timescale is 12 working days.
    That timescale covers the wait time between receipt and consideration at which point if everything is in order then it can be completed and registered.
    Further delays tend to arise where applications are not in order, queries have to be made and in some cases wider checks instigated
    If it's been lodged by a conveyancer then they should be able to confirm the date of lodgement and whether any issues have arisen
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 9th Jan 20, 9:19 AM
    • 591 Posts
    • 67 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    This forum is the correct place for it. Just not this thread.


    Much of this sounds fairly improbable. Perhaps the story has been garbled. I've never heard of the Land Register having anonymous "whistleblowers" who unofficially contact proprietors. I also don't see what the point of registering the deed would be, if the pipe in question has never existed? Or an indication that there's been any crime.

    In any event, prescriptive rights are those which don't derive from a written grant, but from use (over a period of at least 20 years). And conversely, if rights haven't been exercised for over 20 years, they fall away. So the rights in question have never been exercised, it should be relatively straightforward for your friend to have them removed from their title (or at least contest any attempts to start exercising them).
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    The person at RoS who anonymously tipped off my friend was persueded by her to provide evidence of the wrongdoing, and she received an old plan dated 1900 which had obviously been altered to show a water pipe going across her land... She knew that the plan was not genuine as it showed a bounday which had never been created at that time in 1900... the land has been divided up more recently, and the plan showed an up to date version of those newly created boundaries.
    I admit it sounds unfeasible, but apparently, the incoming landowners were very keen to have a private water supply and this may have led to the outgoing landowner to fabricate a plan showing a water supply to the property which simply did not exist. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out, I think, but I don't think my friend is likely to get anywhere at all with RoS and would be better off going to the police, as they have suggested.
    • clarecooper90
    • By clarecooper90 13th Jan 20, 1:01 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    clarecooper90
    Hi, my solicitor has sent through requested documents for lease ST277197.
    Is there any update? Many thanks
  • Land Registry
    Hi, my solicitor has sent through requested documents for lease ST277197.
    Is there any update? Many thanks
    Originally posted by clarecooper90
    The application was coincidentally completed earlier today
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • JJN30
    • By JJN30 15th Jan 20, 9:40 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JJN30
    RESTRICTION Blocking Purchase
    Hi
    Im the buyer of property with the following order,my solictor is insistant it needs removal prior to purchase. Is this correct?
    Proprietorship Register
    (07.06.2010) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate,
    other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge
    registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered
    without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their
    conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to RFS
    Limited (Co. Regn. No. 00548902) at Egale House, 78 St Albans Road,
    Watford, Hertfordshire, WD17 1AF, being the person with the benefit of
    a final charging order on the beneficial interest of Mr ****
    made by the court
    • D_M_E
    • By D_M_E 15th Jan 20, 11:28 PM
    • 2,888 Posts
    • 73,522 Thanks
    D_M_E
    JJN30 - If the property is in joint names and the Charging order is in one of the names only, then maybe this thread could be of help

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1839539
  • Land Registry
    Hi
    Im the buyer of property with the following order,my solictor is insistant it needs removal prior to purchase. Is this correct?
    Proprietorship Register
    (07.06.2010) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate,
    other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge
    registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered
    without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their
    conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to RFS
    Limited (Co. Regn. No. 00548902) at Egale House, 78 St Albans Road,
    Watford, Hertfordshire, WD17 1AF, being the person with the benefit of
    a final charging order on the beneficial interest of Mr ****
    made by the court
    Originally posted by JJN30
    D_M_E has shared a link to the thread that should cover this for you
    The wording if the restriction is key with regards what is required to comply with it.
    If you are buying from the current joint owners then providing you comply with the restriction it would be overreached by the purchase and be cancelled automatically when the purchase is registered.

    Clearly you need to rely on your legal advice here but worth referring them to Practice Guide 76 section 4 as a point of reference re the charging order and restriction (a form K) as referred to
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • JJN30
    • By JJN30 16th Jan 20, 10:40 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JJN30
    I have asked my solictor to request a second opinion and they have the same response that this has to be removed before we can proceed . The added difficulty is we can’t comply, as the company has been stuck off.
    • Melahu94
    • By Melahu94 16th Jan 20, 11:13 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Melahu94
    Possessory title of part of property
    Hi,

    Acting as LPA for my elderly parents in the purchase of their next home. The property has possessory title of a small part of the driveway/access to property (about 1/2 metre squared) and full absolute title of the rest of the land. The 12 years will be up on 14 March so an uplift application can be made. Our solicitor is advising that we wait until after that date to complete so that the current owner can make the application as they have better chance of success than us. Or that the current owner should give a Stat Dec to support our application (which they are not happy to do as they are executors of the estate).
    We do not want to wait until March 14 as that means waiting for a response from LR may take completion date to late April - everyone in the chain is ready and we fear we may lose our buyers.

    My question is, is there any reason why we could not make the application after buying the property (with an indemnity insurance policy provided by the seller - which they are happy to do)? Would the LR reject an application made by us simply because WE would have only been in actual physical possession for a couple of months? Surely they would have a record of the possessory title being registered 12 years ago and therefore that would be sufficient to allow us to upgrade it to absolute?

    If it were our own money and risk we would be more inclined to do it, but as we are acting as LPA's we want to make sure any lose or risky ends are dealt with properly!

    Thank you in advance.
  • Land Registry
    I have asked my solictor to request a second opinion and they have the same response that this has to be removed before we can proceed . The added difficulty is we can’t comply, as the company has been stuck off.
    Originally posted by JJN30
    There's little we can do other than direct them/you to our PG 76, which I assume you have done.
    The other thread that D_M_E linked you to refers to and explains a similar experience for others re such restrictions and the legal advice some have received

    As far as the compliance with the restriction is concerned the key is in the wording. You have the name and address of the creditor so can send a notification to them.

    But if your legal advice is steering you in another direction then that is a matter between you and them I'm afraid
    Last edited by Land Registry; 17-01-2020 at 11:18 AM.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    Hi,

    Acting as LPA for my elderly parents in the purchase of their next home. The property has possessory title of a small part of the driveway/access to property (about 1/2 metre squared) and full absolute title of the rest of the land. The 12 years will be up on 14 March so an uplift application can be made. Our solicitor is advising that we wait until after that date to complete so that the current owner can make the application as they have better chance of success than us. Or that the current owner should give a Stat Dec to support our application (which they are not happy to do as they are executors of the estate).
    We do not want to wait until March 14 as that means waiting for a response from LR may take completion date to late April - everyone in the chain is ready and we fear we may lose our buyers.

    My question is, is there any reason why we could not make the application after buying the property (with an indemnity insurance policy provided by the seller - which they are happy to do)? Would the LR reject an application made by us simply because WE would have only been in actual physical possession for a couple of months? Surely they would have a record of the possessory title being registered 12 years ago and therefore that would be sufficient to allow us to upgrade it to absolute?

    If it were our own money and risk we would be more inclined to do it, but as we are acting as LPA's we want to make sure any lose or risky ends are dealt with properly!

    Thank you in advance.
    Originally posted by Melahu94
    Very much one for you and the solicitor to discuss and agree upon as to the timing of such matters.
    From our perspective our Practice Guide explains what is required and the key aspect, which you already appreciate, is the length of time.
    Provided the time has elapsed when the application is made it matters not whether the applicant has been there 1 month, 1 year or more as it is the combined time that would apply

    Clearly we won't consider the matter until an actual application is submitted so do rely on your legal advice here re timing/completion
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Sally_Forth
    • By Sally_Forth 17th Jan 20, 5:50 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Sally_Forth
    Hi
    Im the buyer of property with the following order,my solictor is insistant it needs removal prior to purchase. Is this correct?
    Proprietorship Register
    (07.06.2010) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate,
    other than a disposition by the proprietor of any registered charge
    registered before the entry of this restriction, is to be registered
    without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or their
    conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to RFS
    Limited (Co. Regn. No. 00548902) at Egale House, 78 St Albans Road,
    Watford, Hertfordshire, WD17 1AF, being the person with the benefit of
    a final charging order on the beneficial interest of Mr ****
    made by the court
    Originally posted by JJN30
    As others have said, the applicant or their solicitor just have to write a statement saying they have sent a notice to RFS at the address above that the property is being sold.
    Sign it and submit it with the application to Land Registry.
    They should actually send the notice, the fact RFS aren't there to receive it is irrelevant.

    If you are the applicant on the AP1 then you can send the notice and provide the certificate/statement.

    I guess the intention of the restriction is so that the company, if it exists, can then chase the debtor for any funds from the sale. As the company in this case doesn't exist then no one is likely to chase them for any cash.

    The restriction will be removed automatically when the transfer completes.
    • peterade
    • By peterade 20th Jan 20, 12:01 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    peterade
    Channging land registry ownership
    Hello land registry helpers,

    My mother passed away last year and left her house to her soul surviving relative, myself. I wish to pass the house on to my two adult children. The probate has already been paid.

    The property is land registered and I want to know how I pass on the registry directly to my children. I will be submitting a deed of variation to the will.


    Thank you in advance.
    Peterade
    • eirot
    • By eirot 20th Jan 20, 12:43 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    eirot
    Land registry deeds
    hi

    Can I transfer my home deeds to my daughter without a solicitor?
    my daughter and I have both got our own representation but have been quoted 1150 combined to transfer the deeds to her name.

    I have downloaded the HR1, AP1 & ID1 forms and the fee is less than 100. the only thing I can see to do is to get the ID1 completed by a conveyancer or at the Land registry office?

    can anyone advise if I have read this correctly as if we go through solicitors it will cost 1k extra?

    many thanks
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