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  • FIRST POST
    • Ped Mota
    • By Ped Mota 22nd Jul 17, 9:20 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Ped Mota
    New Generation Parking - County court claim
    • #1
    • 22nd Jul 17, 9:20 PM
    New Generation Parking - County court claim 22nd Jul 17 at 9:20 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I want to apologise in advance if my questions have been answered elsewhere but I have searched the forum for an answer and not had much luck.

    My situation:

    I received a parking notice charge for parking outside my friend's flat on a Friday night (7th April) which was on a privately owned land.

    I received a pcn through my parents letter box a few weeks later (my car is registered to that address but I have moved away) - I did not realise I had a PCN until July 2nd. On that exact day I went on their website to pay the fine but it said the amount to pay was £0.00 (I print screened this).

    Nevertheless I put in my card details on the website to pay and I thought that would be that.

    Today I went to my parents house again to find another letter which was a county court claim!!!

    Now I don't know where I stand. Given that there was £0.00 to pay on that day I can't show a bank statement but I do have the print screen.

    What is my best course of action? Contact the solicitors or admit part of the claim in reply to the county court claim?

    Your advice would be much appreciated.
Page 2
    • Ped Mota
    • By Ped Mota 19th Aug 17, 9:21 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ped Mota
    Ok that's good. I thought it would be best to post it but PDF is good enough.

    I could not get your links to work.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Here are the links again:

    The car next to the red sign:
    https://i.imgur.com/YW9oLIE.jpg

    The red sign itself:
    https://i.imgur.com/yk7AVYQ.jpg

    The only sign I would have seen at the time would have been this red sign... as I said it doesn't refer to the other signs which set out the terms. Questions is how can I incorporate this into my defence?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Aug 17, 10:24 PM
    • 57,393 Posts
    • 71,004 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The only sign I would have seen at the time would have been this red sign... as I said it doesn't refer to the other signs which set out the terms. Questions is how can I incorporate this into my defence?
    Just say exactly that (depending upon whether you are defending as driver, otherwise say 'the driver' not 'I').
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ped Mota
    • By Ped Mota 20th Aug 17, 10:43 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ped Mota
    So here is the final draft. In point 7 I have noted that their entrance signage does not refer to any signage with terms and conditions and on their own cannot form a contract.

    RE the point about the defendant displaying BPA membership.. Is there any references that I need to add? Is the wording okay?

    This is the last night before I submit this so please feel free to reply with your opinions.

    Your help will be much appreciated.



    As the registered keeper of the relevant vehicle, the Defendant denies liability for the entirety of the claim, for each of the following reasons:

    1. The Particulars of Claim lack specificity and are embarrassing. The Defendant is prejudiced and is unable to prepare a full and complete Defence. The Defendant reserves the right to seek from the Court permission to serve an Amended Defence should the Claimant add to or expand his Particulars at a later stage of these proceedings and/or to limit the Claimant only to the unevidenced allegations in the Particulars.

    2. The particulars of claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached. Indeed the particulars of claim are not clear and concise as is required by CPR 16.4 1(a). The Claimants are known to be serial issuers of generic claims similar to this one. Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service have identified over one thousand similar poorly produced claims and the solicitors conduct in many of these cases is believed to be currently the subject of an active investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority.
    a)On the 20th September 2016 another relevant private parking charge claim by Gladstones was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court without a hearing due to their ‘robo-claim’ particulars being incoherent, failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and‘ providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law.
    b)On the 19th August 2016 DJ Anson sitting at Preston County Court ruled that the very similar parking charge particulars of claim were deficient and failing to meet CPR 16.4 and PD 16 paragraphs 7.3 - 7.5. He ordered the Claimant in that case to file new particulars which they failed to do, and the court confirmed the claim will now be struck out.

    3. Having not received a letter before claim, the Defendant notes the Claimant's failure to engage in pre-action correspondence in accordance with the pre-action protocol and with the express aim of avoiding contested litigation.

    4. In June 2017, the claimant, pled guilty to displaying BPA membership when in fact they were not a member of the organisation. As per the evidence supplied, at present the signs at this particular site continue to display BPA membership.

    Authority to Park

    6. The vehicle was at all times when at the residence, properly parked and it is believed it is common ground that it was neither causing an obstruction nor was it unauthorised; being parked at the permission of a permitted resident. The claimant has not provided any evidence to the contrary.

    7. Even if the Court is minded to consider that a visitor must display a permit there must be a reasonable 'grace period' time allowed for fetching it from the resident (which involves 2 flights of stairs) and there is no evidence that this time was allowed. Immediate ticketing or lack of a fair grace period is contrary to the IPC code of practice, being a predatory and unfair business practice. His Honour Charles Harris QC remarked in the Jopson appeal case decision that life in a resident’s block would be unworkable if visitors, delivery drivers etc. were expected to park immediately obtaining a permit (which a visitor would not have).

    Alternative Claim – Failure to Set Out Clear Parking Terms

    7. The defendant as a member of the IPC, has failed to follow Schedule 1 of the IPC code of conduct by erecting entrance signage that:
    a. Refers the motorist to the signs within the car park which display the full terms
    and conditions.
    b. Identifies the parking management company (where they are a limited company. This should be by reference to their full company name, company number and the
    jurisdiction within which the company is registered).
    The defendant avers that the red entrance signs erected (closest to the parked car as can be seen in the supplied evidence) on site are incapable of forming the basis of a contract nor do they refer to any other signage that displays the full terms and conditions. It is therefore denied that any contract was formed or was capable of being formed.

    9. Underlining that is Section B.2.1, B.2.2 of the IPC Code of Practice which gives clear instructions as to the placing, visibility and clarity of any signs that are used to form contracts. It says:

    2.1 Where the basis of your parking charges is based in the law of contract it will usually be by way of the driver of a vehicle agreeing to contractual terms identified by signage in and around a controlled zone. It is therefore of fundamental importance that the signage meets the minimum standards under The Code as this underpins the validity of any such charge. Similarly, where charges are founded in the law of trespass and form liquidated damages, these too must be communicated to drivers in the same way.

    2.2 Signs must conform to the requirements as set out in a schedule 1 to the Code

    10. The defendant refutes that there were clear and visible signs, with Terms that formed the basis of a contact and which met the specifications above.

    11. Section B.1.1 of the IPC Code of Practice outlines to operators:

    1.1 If you operate parking management activities on land which is not owned by you, you must supply us with written authority from the land owner sufficient to establish you as the “Creditor” within the meaning of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (where applicable) and in any event to establish you as a person who is able to recover parking charges. There is no prescribed form for such agreement and it need not necessarily be as part of a contract but it must include the express ability for an operator to recover parking charges on the landowner's behalf or provide sufficient right to occupy the land in question so that charges can be recovered by the operator directly. This applies whether or not you intend to use the keeper liability provisions.

    The Claimant is put to strict proof they have such authority to operate on site and to take action in their own name. The same is a requirement of any contract based on conduct.

    12. It is denied that the Claimant has standing to bring any claim in the absence of a contract that expressly permits the Claimant to do so, in addition to merely undertaking parking management. The Claimant has provided no proof of any such entitlement.
    13. It is also denied that in addition to the parking charge of £100, there was any agreement to pay additional and unspecified additional sums, which are in any case unsupported by the Beavis case and unsupported for cases on the small claims track.

    14. In view of all the foregoing the court is invited to strike the matter out of its own motion.

    15. The claimant is put to strict proof of the assertions they have made or may make in their fuller claim.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Aug 17, 11:14 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    You could say a bit more here:

    4. In June 2017, this Claimant pled guilty to charges brought by Trading Standards Rhondda Cynon Taf (RCT), the judgment being found against them for a total sum of £3375.84. One of the offences listed was displaying BPA AOS membership when in fact they were not a member of the organisation. This is a misleading business practice, contrary to the CPUTRs 2008. At present, despite the criminal charges recently faced by NGPM, the signs at this particular site continue to display BPA AOS membership.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ped Mota
    • By Ped Mota 20th Aug 17, 11:20 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ped Mota
    Great thank you!! Will incorporate that into my defence.

    Would you be happy with the rest of the statement?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Aug 17, 11:26 PM
    • 57,393 Posts
    • 71,004 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Seems to cover the bases, IMHO.

    Unless you can add any more from your friend's tenancy agreement and/or the email or paperwork that came to him/her with the permit.

    If the Tenancy Agreement and/or the permit paperwork do not include any reference to an 'obligation' that gives rise to £100 parking charge (a specifically stated £100 sum) then any authorised visitor can reasonably rely upon the primacy of contract enjoyed by the flat resident, and cannot be bound by terms that were not and are not part of the Agreement/permit scheme.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ped Mota
    • By Ped Mota 8th Nov 17, 6:51 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ped Mota
    Hi Guys,

    I have now received the notice of allocation however in the letter it suggests that my defence statement was incomplete and I need to send the court and claimant another copy. Having checked the attachment in the email that I sent, all pages were included and so was the signature.

    The deadline is tight (today) so I would appreciate it if you can help me with this. I am planning on sending another copy but also including my original email to prove that the attachment included the full statement. I also need to send this to the claimant.... does anyone have Gladstones email address anywhere? I seem to think I have seen it on the forum but cannot find it.

    Thanks
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 8th Nov 17, 7:40 PM
    • 1,022 Posts
    • 1,967 Thanks
    Johnersh
    The deadline is tight (today)
    Well i hope you sent a further copy then!

    But without knowing exactly what the letter said it's difficult to opine.
    • Ped Mota
    • By Ped Mota 12th Jan 18, 2:15 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Ped Mota
    Well well well...

    Just want to say thank you to everyone who helped me on this case - I thought it would be only right to come back here and let people know the outcome of my case.

    The hearing for my case was scheduled for next week and per County Court's instruction the witness statements were to be sent to the other party and the court at least 14 days before the hearing date.

    Just like I didn't received a letter before claim, Gladstones failed to send me a witness statement in time and in fact I still have not received it.

    Anyway, I called the court today to find out what was going on and was pleased to hear that the case was put aside which I assume will be because of the above.

    Although I didn't have to attend a hearing, I have learnt a lot about the process and strongly urge others to consider fighting these crooks rather than giving in and paying them something they do not deserve.
    • Noree
    • By Noree 16th Feb 18, 10:36 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Noree
    Congratulations by the way. I did not have the nouse to call the working day prior to my hearing and found it was discontinued on arrival. Same joke of a parking firm and also same reps.

    Couldn’t even call them solicitors. I think that after the processes etc that I have gone through probably makes me more legally trained than they are!
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 16th Feb 18, 10:41 PM
    • 2,606 Posts
    • 3,262 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    have a look at what our MP's think of them


    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    Ralph
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Feb 18, 10:56 PM
    • 57,393 Posts
    • 71,004 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well well well...

    Just want to say thank you to everyone who helped me on this case - I thought it would be only right to come back here and let people know the outcome of my case.

    The hearing for my case was scheduled for next week and per County Court's instruction the witness statements were to be sent to the other party and the court at least 14 days before the hearing date.

    Just like I didn't received a letter before claim, Gladstones failed to send me a witness statement in time and in fact I still have not received it.

    Anyway, I called the court today to find out what was going on and was pleased to hear that the case was put aside which I assume will be because of the above.

    Although I didn't have to attend a hearing, I have learnt a lot about the process and strongly urge others to consider fighting these crooks rather than giving in and paying them something they do not deserve.
    Originally posted by Ped Mota
    Well done, another win!

    Now add to the complaints by telling your story to your MP and pointing them to watch the debate from 2 weeks ago and to support the Bill to curtail these firms.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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