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  • FIRST POST
    • Notepad2608
    • By Notepad2608 30th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Notepad2608
    CLAIM NOW RECEIVED - PCN, Wrong RinGo Code!
    • #1
    • 30th Jun 17, 2:33 PM
    CLAIM NOW RECEIVED - PCN, Wrong RinGo Code! 30th Jun 17 at 2:33 PM
    Good afternoon all.

    I’ll start by saying the info here is great. I wish I had come here as soon as I received the PCN but alas, I have been a little naive.

    This is my situation.

    I parked my car in a camera controlled car park managed by Excel Parking. I called the automated RinGo phone line to pay for an hours parking using my credit card. I left 30 minutes later. I received a PCN through the post via my employer as I drive a company car. I have, naively, acknowledged that I was driving the vehicle.

    So here is what happen. When calling RinGo I entered the car park identification code as 2006 instead of 2008. 2006 is the code for the immediately adjacent car park also managed by Excel with the same fees to park.

    My point is that it is obvious to anyone that I have paid for my parking. The RinGo records show that I paid only a minute or two after the photo on the PCN shows me arriving in car park 2008.

    Yes, I have made an error and entered the wrong car park ID code but my car can’t be in two places at once. It is clear that I intended to pay for parking in car park 2008 (where Excel’s photographs prove my car is parked).

    I have appealed to Excel Parking and the IAS and both have dismissed the appeal.

    This just feels wrong. Can anyone advise on my next move? (7 days left to pay)

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Notepad2608; 07-04-2018 at 5:30 PM. Reason: Claim Now Recievec
Page 2
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Apr 18, 10:25 AM
    • 3,921 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Yes, you might need to justify their relevance. SO go find them and read up. The information is available!
    Relatively high - forum assisted defences go quite well, in the main.

    Bookmakr post 2 of the newbies thread. Keep reading it.
    • Notepad2608
    • By Notepad2608 12th Jun 18, 4:58 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Notepad2608
    Court Date Fixed. Witness Statements Due
    Hello again.

    A court date has now been fixed and Witness Statements and documents have to be in by Friday.

    I’m having trouble tracking down the transcripts for the case law I used in my initial defence, posted above. Does anyone have any suggestions?

    Also, I have been contacted by a named person (as opposed to a generic company email) from the claimant offering a reduced amount to settle. Given that I don’t want to settle, what is the form for responding to such an email and is there an accepted way of replying to an email that begins, in bold, “without prejudice”?

    Below is my attempt at a Witness Statement. As ever, all of your comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    I am XXXXXXXX, Defendant in this matter. I deny liability for the entirety of the claim.

    I am unrepresented, with no experience of Court procedures. If I do not set out documents in the way that the Claimant may do, I trust the Court will excuse my inexperience.


    Events of 5th April 2017 pertaining to this Case

    1) On the 5th April 2017 at 16:04 (Exhibit X) I entered a Birmingham city centre car park driving a white Vauxhall Astra, registration MK66 YPW. I subsequently know this car park to be Albert Street carpark. I parked and upon exiting my vehicle called the RinGO pay by phone telephone service to pay for parking.

    2) During the automated call I entered my credit card details and selected a duration of stay of 1 hour, costing £1.40 (20p of which is the fee for using the RinGo service). I was also asked to confirm the location code of the car park I was parked in. A car park’s unique location code is displayed on its ticket machines. I could see a ticket machine from where I was making the call (approximately 25m away) and mistakenly read and confirmed the code to be 2886. The correct code is 2880.

    3) For context I submit Exhibit X, a photograph of my view of the ticket machine and car park location code taken from where I was making the call to RinGo. Exhibit X and Exhibit X show the dimensions of the sign.

    4) 2886 is the location code for the immediately adjacent Fazeley Street car park, a car park that I have used in the past. Both Fazeley Street and Albert Street car parks have the same fees to park (Exhibit X and Exhibit X) and both are managed and controlled by the same company, Excel Parking Services Ltd (Exhibit X and Exhibit X).

    5) Exhibit X is an aerial image of both Albert Street and Fazeley Street car parks. Exhibit X is the same image amended to show the boundary of each car park to highlight their proximity. Exhibit X is a screen grab from Google Street View that shows the proximity of each car parks entrance, no more than 10m apart.

    6) After completing a small amount of shopping in the city centre I returned to my vehicle and left the car park at 16:35 (Exhibit X), 31 minutes after arriving and well within the 1 hours parking I had paid for.

    Regarding Terms and Conditions.

    7) The Claimant’s case, that I have failed to abide by the Terms and Conditions (T&C), turns on nothing more than the fact that I made an honest mistake when identifying the location code of Albert Street carpark, a trifle matter of mistaking a “0” for a “6” on a small sign some distance away. However, the requirement to correctly enter a car park’s location code is not explicitly stated on the signed T&C (Exhibit X) and therefore no breach occurred.

    8) In any case, Excel Parking Services were aware of where my vehicle was at the time of the payment as they employ the use of ANPR cameras on Albert Street car park, “for the purpose”, according to the signs (Exhibit X), “ of ensuring compliance with the Terms and Conditions….”. They should have known then, that my vehicle couldn’t possibly be parked on car park 2886 (Fazeley Street) at the time as their own photographic evidence shows it arriving and leaving Albert Street car park.


    9) Exhibit X is the tariff and Terms and Conditions (T&C) sign at Albert Street car park. It has been amended with numbers (T1-T11) for each term and condition for ease of reference in this Witness Statement.

    T1
    10) Exhibit X is the receipt from the transaction detailed in paragraphs 1-6. Note the vehicle registration number (MK66 YPW) entered accurately and in full and the creditor is Excel Parking Services Ltd.

    11) By way of comparison Exhibit X shows a receipt from 8/4/2018. On this occasion the correct location code (2880) for Albert Street car park was used. As can be seen the creditor is again Excel Parking Services Ltd.

    12) Exhibits X and X confirm that: Regardless of the car park location code, 2880 or 2886, The creditor is Excel Parking Services Ltd; the creditor was paid the fee of £1.40 for 1 hours parking (actual stay was 31 minutes) and that the vehicle registration number was entered accurately and in full. Therefore I have complied with T1.

    T2
    13) As I paid via a pay by phone service and not a pay and display machine, this is not applicable.

    T3
    14) Exhibit X is the receipt from the transaction detailed in paragraphs 1-6. Note: The beginning of the session duration is 4:07pm. Exhibit X is the ANPR record of my vehicle arriving at Albert street car park. The time show is 16:04. Therefore I have paid within 10 minutes of arriving at the car park and have complied with T3.

    15) T4 – T11 are either not in dispute, are information for carpark users and/or are not relevant in this case.

    16) Paragraphs 10-15 show I have complied with all of the signed Terms and Conditions and as such, no breach of contract (with Excel Parking Services Ltd) has occurred.

    Regarding the Contract

    17) If, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, a contract does exist between myself and the owner of Albert Street car park, or those authorised by them, then it is with Excel Parking Services Ltd and not the Claimant, Vehicle Control services ltd

    18) Exhibit X shows that Excel Parking Services Ltd are the creditor for payments made using the RinGo pay by phone service, not VCS.

    19) Exhibit X, the entrance sign from Albert Street car park, clearly states:

    “Excel Parking Services Ltd Manage and Control This Private Car Park.”

    20) Exhibits X and X show Excel Parking Services’ logo prominent on all carpark signage.

    21) In fact, the only mention of VCS is to be found amongst the mass of smaller print around the periphery of the Tariff/T&C sign (Exhibit x). Who are VCS?


    I believe the facts stated in this whiteness statement are true.
    • Notepad2608
    • By Notepad2608 12th Jun 18, 5:02 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Notepad2608
    Whiteness! I'll get this poof read I think.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Jun 18, 5:09 PM
    • 10,583 Posts
    • 10,419 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jun 18, 5:19 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,533 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Whiteness! I'll get this poof read I think.
    Originally posted by Notepad2608
    Hmm, you need that sentence Proof read!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Notepad2608
    • By Notepad2608 12th Jun 18, 5:23 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Notepad2608
    Ahhhhh. Indeed.
    • Notepad2608
    • By Notepad2608 15th Jun 18, 5:58 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Notepad2608
    VCS Discontinue case!!!!
    Hi all.

    Received a letter this morning - the deadline for Witness Statements and evidence was today - saying they are taking the matter no further. Nice of them after 14 months!!!

    Good news I guess, though after all this time I was quite looking forward to seeing the whole thing through.

    The thing is, I filed my WS and Evidence yesterday as well as paying the non-refundable court fee (£25). I seem to remember reading on the Forum recently that if a company discontinues at a late stage then you can still go for costs. Is that the case and how?

    Also, massive thanks to all who have help me over the last year or so. Especially so to Coupon-mad for the initial rallying cry and all the great stuff to go in my initial defence.

    Thanks too to The Deep for that link above. I will definitely be asking my MP to lend all his weight to the Parking Code of Practice Bill.

    Thanks again.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 15th Jun 18, 6:09 PM
    • 2,008 Posts
    • 2,708 Thanks
    Castle
    The thing is, I filed my WS and Evidence yesterday as well as paying the non-refundable court fee (£25). I seem to remember reading on the Forum recently that if a company discontinues at a late stage then you can still go for costs. Is that the case and how?
    Originally posted by Notepad2608
    Why have you paid a court fee?
    • Notepad2608
    • By Notepad2608 15th Jun 18, 6:20 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Notepad2608
    Idiot.
    Me not you.

    Just read (properly) the documents from the court.

    Claimant pays the £25!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Court gladly took it though even though they knew I was the defendant. Embarrassing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Anyway, as I said all the help hear was really appreciated.

    All the best.

    Bye.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Jun 18, 6:02 AM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Court gladly took it though even though they knew I was the defendant.
    Get it back and get your costs.

    Just write to the Court Manager and explain both. You'll get your £25 as it would be unlawful to keep it and courts can't do anything unlawful. You might also get costs if you ask.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
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