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  • FIRST POST
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 21st Jun 17, 7:23 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 9Thanks
    b348xyx
    DPD Delivery Issue
    • #1
    • 21st Jun 17, 7:23 PM
    DPD Delivery Issue 21st Jun 17 at 7:23 PM
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Page 3
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 26th Jun 17, 10:38 PM
    • 3,396 Posts
    • 4,972 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    If I were in the op's position I would also be asking to see a copy of the signature in order to deny it was mine. Without such a denial I would not have thought a claim would get far.

    I would also expect the delivery company, as part of their investigation, to compare the handwriting from that signature with any other signatures they have from previous deliveries at that address and also a sample of the delivery driver's writing. (Unless of course they have conclusive proof of what happened from some other source.)
    Originally posted by naedanger
    But if you wanted to con a parcel, it's not difficult to squiggle something down so that you could deny it later.

    Not that i'm implying this is what the OP has done.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 26th Jun 17, 11:23 PM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    But if you wanted to con a parcel, it's not difficult to squiggle something down so that you could deny it later.

    Not that i'm implying this is what the OP has done.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Just because a squiggle could have been written by the op is not evidence that it was written by them (or anyone connected with them).
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 26th Jun 17, 11:34 PM
    • 3,396 Posts
    • 4,972 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    Just because a squiggle could have been written by the op is not evidence that it was written by them (or anyone connected with them).
    Originally posted by naedanger
    Exactly. An unidentifiable squiggle could be made by the op to cover his tracks or by someone else. So the case of a signature is pretty pointless,unless it is checked against official ID.

    Again, not implying any wrong doing by the OP, just using as an example.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 26th Jun 17, 11:43 PM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    Exactly. An unidentifiable squiggle could be made by the op to cover his tracks or by someone else. So the case of a signature is pretty pointless,unless it is checked against official ID.

    Again, not implying any wrong doing by the OP, just using as an example.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    My point is that an accurate signature is good evidence.

    The op therefore needs to see the "signature" the delivery company has and then dispute that it is theirs.

    (I also suspect that the delivery company will check the signature against any previous deliveries to the same address. In cases of disputed delivery if the disputed signature has strong similarities to previous signatures then the delivery company may have evidence to support their case. If not and they have no other evidence then they should pay out.)
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 27th Jun 17, 8:26 AM
    • 4,284 Posts
    • 4,330 Thanks
    DoaM
    But writing a signature on the handheld device can often result in signatures that look nothing like your normal signature, no matter how hard you try. Quite often you have to use your finger (nail) to do it as there isn't a pen available that'll work with the device.
    Diary of a madman
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    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 27th Jun 17, 9:08 AM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    But writing a signature on the handheld device can often result in signatures that look nothing like your normal signature, no matter how hard you try. Quite often you have to use your finger (nail) to do it as there isn't a pen available that'll work with the device.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    My point is a "signature" is not necessarily proof of delivery if it is denied by the supposed recipient. The onus would then be on the delivery company to show why it is not just a squiggle anyone could have done. But the supposed recipient should go to the bother of confirming the signature was not written by them, or as far as they are aware, anyone at their address.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 6:27 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    b348xyx
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    Last edited by b348xyx; 18-01-2018 at 7:29 PM.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 5th Jul 17, 7:02 PM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    They advised there first step is a chargeback under grounds item is not received and will give currys 45days to reply and if they reply they have confirmed they will need more then just a signature to proof it was delivered correctly. they advised signature is not enough proof it was done correctly and based on what i have advised in my email they would need to provide evidence to confirm with 100% without reasonable doult they got the parcel to me directly. which they have already adminted is not the case.

    ...

    if not they can go next step section 75 but dont think should get that far.. and then would be court.. of course i am going to be following this through the whole way as i am not accepting a massive lost.
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    You are not obliged to go the chargeback route. You are entitled to make a section 75 claim now.

    Personally if I was in your position I tell the credit card company I did not wish to make a chargeback claim but was instead making a section 75 claim now against them.

    I would also state that if it they did not resolve the matter promptly by either providing a full refund or proof that the item was delivered correctly then I would pursue a formal complaint against them for taking too long to resolve this matter.

    (I would also make sure to confirm all points in writing, e.g. by email, to ensure I had evidence of what was said.)
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 7:10 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    b348xyx
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    Last edited by b348xyx; 18-01-2018 at 7:29 PM.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 5th Jul 17, 7:24 PM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    From Credit cards advice it seemed a charge back would be the best first step and worse case this failed i could then go section 75 route. would you mind telling me why going straight to section 75 and skipping chargeback route would be a better option ? (your advice is appreciated)
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    To speed things up. I wouldn't want to wait 45 days. Also it is easier to understand the credit card company's legal responsibility under a section 75 claim. They are responsible to the same extent as the retailer is - in other words they are fully responsible and cannot offload responsibility onto the retailer.


    Also as for in writing currys have put it in writing as i requested this and have this, DPD are sending me a letter in post with there reasons should be with me by end this week they advised. but wont hold my breath. (i also made sure it will be posted by royal mail !!)

    i also have many emails back and forth and my timeline of events day by day with each call so i can look back for reference.
    That is good. Ensure you can evidence everything. But if you go the section 75 route from now on you are expecting the credit card company to resolve matters, and if they don't your complaint is against the credit card company. You can ultimately complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about the credit card company should they fail to resolve the matter satisfactorily.

    If you have not read the following then it is worth a read:

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

    Particularly section "If the retailer isn't playing ball it may be easier to go to your card provider"
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 7:32 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    b348xyx
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    Last edited by b348xyx; 18-01-2018 at 7:29 PM.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 5th Jul 17, 7:44 PM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    I will make contact again with credit card company tomorrow and say from advice taken i want to change to a section 75 straight away and see what there next steps will be, i think its a different team that deals section 75 matter so might have to sent current information again or wait for letter from dpd and sent it all to them on section 75 grounds.

    is there any section 75 templates you know off, sorry for lots questions.
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    No. I don't know of any template. Just restate your case as clearly and concisely as you can.

    (Try to put yourself in the position of the person coming fresh to your case. They would probably welcome a summary of what happened and your argument and possibly a simple timeline of events. By all means include all previous correspondence in date order but don't expect the case reviewer to have to read everything to understand your complaint. All that said even if you don't express yourself well the reviewer should still judge the case on its merits not its presentation.)

    was card company correct in saying if worse case chargeback fails i can still raise section 75 ? or is it one or the other out of interest ?
    Yes I think they were correct. You could still do chargeback followed by section 75. I just don't see any advantage. In other words I cannot see a scenario, at least in theory, where you could lose a section 75 claim but win on a chargeback.

    However if there are separate teams then in practice you may have a very slight extra chance of success i.e. if the chargeback team are more inclined to believe customers than the section 75 team. (However I don't think that likely. And you would still have FOS if the section 75 team find against you.)
    Last edited by naedanger; 05-07-2017 at 7:49 PM.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 5th Jul 17, 7:46 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    b348xyx
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    Last edited by b348xyx; 18-01-2018 at 7:29 PM.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 5th Jul 17, 7:54 PM
    • 18,655 Posts
    • 15,580 Thanks
    wealdroam
    was card company correct in saying if worse case chargeback fails i can still raise section 75 ? or is it one or the other out of interest ?
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    I think the card company are correct in saying that, and are being quite reasonable in offering a S75 claim if the chargeback fails.
    Remember, if either the chargeback or the S75 claim fail you can always pass the issue to the Financial Ombudsman Service for review, before even needing to contemplate court action.


    is there any section 75 templates you know off, sorry for lots questions.
    Originally posted by b348xyx
    Here's a Section 75 template letter.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 5th Jul 17, 9:59 PM
    • 12,289 Posts
    • 9,628 Thanks
    unholyangel
    The reason the bank is pushing chargeback instead of section 75 is because a chargeback is against the merchants bank, a section 75 claim is against your bank. So chargeback = no possibility of your bank having to pay out. Section 75 = possibility of them having to pay out even if they can't recoup the funds from the retailer.

    A chargeback can only be done for certain reasons - its something that visa/mastercard offer themselves as policy (so based on contractual law I suppose).

    While a section 75 claim, if you have a claim against the retailer then you have a like claim against the creditor as per section 75 of the consumer credit act (so backed in legislation). Section 75 is only available to individuals (not ltd companies for example), it needs to under a debtor > creditor > retailer agreement and the purchase price of any commercial unit must be at least 100 but not more than 30,000 iirc.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 6th Jul 17, 2:34 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    b348xyx
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    Last edited by b348xyx; 18-01-2018 at 7:29 PM.
    • Fluffybunny80
    • By Fluffybunny80 15th Jul 17, 10:51 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    Fluffybunny80
    Any updates on this OP? Just been reading and hoping for a positive outcome for you.
    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 15th Jul 17, 11:12 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    b348xyx
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    • b348xyx
    • By b348xyx 3rd Aug 17, 5:13 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    b348xyx
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    Last edited by b348xyx; 18-01-2018 at 7:30 PM.
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