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  • FIRST POST
    • sunshine321
    • By sunshine321 20th Jun 17, 6:36 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    sunshine321
    PCN-Smart Parking Ltd -Letter never received
    • #1
    • 20th Jun 17, 6:36 PM
    PCN-Smart Parking Ltd -Letter never received 20th Jun 17 at 6:36 PM
    Parking Charge Notice- Debt Recovery Plus Ltd on behalf of Smart Parking Ltd



    Hi there,

    I am unsure as to how I approach a parking charge which I received in the just post yesterday- Location Riverside shopping centre Erith. Help and advice would be greatly appreciated many thanks in advance.

    Basically I received received a letter in the post quite unexpectedly yesterday 20/06/17 from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd-DRP (please let me know if you'd like me to attach on here) saying that they were writing to me because I had not paid their client 'Smart Parking Ltd) and the amount owing is £160 for a parking charge dated 07/05/17.

    I find this very odd as I have definitely not received a letter of communication from 'Smart Parking Ltd' at all in relation to said offence. Reason stated in this letter is: 'Insufficient paid Time'

    I went onto the 'Smart Parking Ltd' website and was able to view the pictures relating to the said contravention using the parking charge notice no specified in this letter from Debt Recovery plus Ltd. There they have 2 pictures of my car, the first being the front of my car presumably entering the car park photograph time of 12:46 and the second picture showing the back of my car presumably upon exiting the car park at 13:19. This would bring the total time spent at the car park 33mins. Parking in this car park is free up to the first 3 hours while they still ask users to display a ticket from the machine which is printed free of charge for display in car.

    I can only assume that the offence which I am being accused of is not obtaining a free ticket and displaying on my windscreen from the machine or if that was done that the numberplate was incorrectly entered into the machine although I cannot be sure for certain or even remember the incident in question to be honest. I have used the car park on numerous occasions always obtaining a free ticket from the machine to display on my windscreen and believe I would have done the same in this instance (if I was in fact driving that is). I do not have the free machine parking ticket that would back this up however unfortunately tending to dispose of my machine parking tickets after a few weeks. As I cannot specifically recall the incident in question there would be no way of even ascertaining that I was even the driver of the car at the time of said contravention. On the 'Smart Parking Ltd website they specify that issue date was 10/5/17 and contravention date was 7/5/17. But received nothing from them at all, the first I know about anything is the letter I received yesterday from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd charging me £160.

    Please help, how do I go about dealing with this? It's making me a little stressed and anxious. I honesty seriously doubt that Smart Parking Ltd even contacted me in the first place if they had as 3 days later as they claim on their website I would have better recollection of whether I was the driver or not and if so I did obtain a ticket or not and may even have still had the ticket as proof if I didn't fail to obtain one which I don't believe I did, considering I have used said car park many a time and not 'forgotten' to do this. Nevertheless not helped by the 6 week lapse of time I just cant be certain. I just feel that the actions of Smart Parking Ltd are hugely unethical considering the car park is free up to the first 3 hours anyway and their camera's have supported my car being in the car park for just over 30 mins. I would definitely need to ask them to provide evidence of proof of postage from Smart Parking Ltd. What this would also means is that the appeal window would have presumably lapsed now they have involved the DRP (their letter dated 15/6/17) now 6 weeks after the 7/05/17 contravention date.


    Many thanks in advance guys and sorry for the essay hope all makes sense?
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th May 18, 9:29 PM
    • 61,589 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Just in case your list of similar cases came to anything, Fruitcake - the exact same thing has happened to me. DCP, on behalf of Smart Parking, on behalf of M&S - right out of the blue for a supposed overstay at the start of March. Naturally can't remember what on earth I was doing that day.
    I have appealed already online with Smart Parking, but perhaps it is too late for that?
    I have a Strongly Worded Letter ready for M&S, I apparently have to phone the store before I can get an email address for the manager but I'm intending to email him as I would rather have it all written down. Reading through the forums here I was hopeful that M&S would see sense but I've now found quite a few posts on other sites about the very same car park and M&S are hiding behind "We don't operate the car park" even though it says M&S in whopping letters above the entrance, and they claim on their website to have a car park.
    I also found a post that says Smart Parking love to pursue people in my area as it's so lucrative, and that they never back down. :-(
    Originally posted by matherine
    Read this, someone needs to collate a number of cases (over a dozen) and put them in front of Steve Clark at the BPA. I am genuinely fed up with Smart doing this and they need investigating.

    The BPA WILL NOT do that basis on one complaint at a time:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74233166#post74233166

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • matherine
    • By matherine 10th May 18, 12:53 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    matherine
    Thanks Umkomass - actually when I phoned the store the managerESS was there and she was incredibly helpful and has emailed Smart Parking on my behalf, she does it all the time apparently. I didn't dare ask with what success rate, I'll have to wait and see. Just so relieved that she didn't try to palm me off by saying they don't operate the car park which would have meant a lifetime boycott of all M&Ss!
    If this doesn't work then I will definitely use that email address though.
    Last edited by matherine; 10-05-2018 at 12:56 PM.
    • matherine
    • By matherine 10th May 18, 5:16 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    matherine
    OK Coupon-mad, I did the search like you suggested in the other thread, (which I will perhaps never go on again) and after sifting through them - the searches threw up mainly the same ones - I got 14 separate cases and emailed Steve Clark with all the links to get his thoughts. I can't post the links on here as I am a newbie poster. I'll let you know what he says, if anything. Now I've just got to wait and see if the lovely M&S manager has had any influence and if I will be forever searching for somewhere else to buy underwear.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th May 18, 5:22 PM
    • 19,253 Posts
    • 24,463 Thanks
    Redx
    well done for sticking with it

    as a new user you could change each link from http to hxxp in notepad , then copy the lot into your reply , we can then fix them into live links

    emailing Steve Clarke may well help him to see the common pattern and do something about it so well done for locating them. We have a great deal of respect for him, but few others at the BPA and none at the IPC

    and the old LONDON COUNCILS POPLA was a lot better than the ONBUDSMAN SERVICE too
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • matherine
    • By matherine 10th May 18, 5:53 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    matherine
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5837189&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5667406&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5755105&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5728433&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5699543&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5662005&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5631751&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5618005&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5632888&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5613640&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5576621&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5583340&highlight=smart+drp
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5823468&highlight=smart+debt+coll ection
    hxxps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5628052&highlight=smart+debt+coll ection

    Have not included any where I could see straight away that the person had not updated their details with the DVLA so letter might have been sent, these should all be ones where Smart have almost certainly just not bothered.
    • matherine
    • By matherine 10th May 18, 5:59 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    matherine
    That was an extremely fast reply, by any standards:

    Thanks for your note.
    I am happy to have a look into this case for you but to do so, I would need either your PCN number or your VRM or both please - I can then contact Smart Parking and require sight of specific documents from them as part of any investigation.
    I have had a look at the cases provided and while I donít dispute what is being said, there is not enough evidence yet for me to be convinced that this is a systemic problem at Smart Parking. Even if those motorists involved had written to us previously, some of the cases are quite old and we will no longer have the details - we donít hold data for longer than we need it for. It would be helpful if one of the more fair-minded MSE posters like Coupon Mad or Umkommas were able to either;
    ∑ Make direct contact with me with a list of PCN references/VRMs for these cases or
    ∑ Encourage other motorists faced with the same problem as you in the future to send me the details so that I can establish a dossier
    I am sure that you will be sharing my response with MSE.
    Kind regards
    Steve Clark
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th May 18, 6:02 PM
    • 19,253 Posts
    • 24,463 Thanks
    Redx
    thanks

    live links

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5837189

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5667406

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5755105

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5728433

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5699543

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5662005

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5631751

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5618005

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5632888

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5613640

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5576621

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5583340

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5823468

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5628052
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th May 18, 8:07 PM
    • 19,422 Posts
    • 30,696 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    It would be helpful if one of the more fair-minded MSE posters like Coupon Mad or Umkommas were able to either;
    ∑ Make direct contact with me with a list of PCN references/VRMs for these cases
    ∑ Encourage other motorists faced with the same problem as you in the future to send me the details so that I can establish a dossier
    Thank you for the recognition from you Mr Clark. As an aside, as my user name is of South African origin, try Umkomaas, not Umkommas, so as not to annoy the locals!

    We hold neither PCN references nor VRMs on the forum, in fact we actively discourage the publication of any identifying detail here.

    However, your second suggestion is one that we can, and will, run with.

    Thanks for your helpful input - as usual.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Silversurreal
    • By Silversurreal 10th May 18, 10:47 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Silversurreal
    The store I purchased from is no longer there, so the business park has no traders atm. Can't find details of who owns the land anywhere. Gateway 11 Wymondham


    I got a DRP letter for £160 too, Smart have been informed by me that they NEVER wrote to me originally, now they've now "kindly" gave me a 2nd one and offered a "discount" I have exceeded the 2nd grace period now as advised I should apply to POPLA. This happened almost 5 months ago but no one informed me until April when DRP wrote


    Is this the basic POPLA TEMPLATE I should use just changing my personal details but using these points? it's all so very complicated!

    Julia





    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re PCN number:

    I appeal and dispute your purported 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny liability and consider the PCN an absolute disgrace and pure intimidation.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there any agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require the following information with your rejection letter:

    1. Please provide dated photos of the signs on site, which you contend formed a contract.
    2. Please provide all images taken of this vehicle on that day, at the material location.

    I will use POPLA (if offered) not the 'IAS' which has been exposed in Parliament as compromised by a conflict of interests with the IPC. The BPA were also heavily criticised and both appeals systems were condemned - hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admitted in recent years to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and saying on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog). Firms of your ilk were unanimously criticised in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18).

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint about your predatory and aggressive conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.

    Yours faithfully,


    THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

    DO NOT PUT YOUR NAME HERE INSTEAD, IF YOU ARE NOT THE KEEPER/HIRER/LESSEE. YOU ARE NOT HELPING IF YOU DO THIS WRONG BY APPEALING IN THE WRONG NAME!


    NO NEED TO USE YOUR REAL SIGNATURE - BUT DON'T POST IT BY ROYAL MAIL UNLESS YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION ON THE PCN. CERTAINLY NOT BY RECORDED DELIVERY - FORGET THAT! - ALWAYS USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE - OR EMAIL IF OFFERED AS AN OPTION ON THE NOTICE - BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP PROOF/ A SCREENSHOT

    You can (carefully!) add a little to the template above, 'in order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of...':

    - the driver's receipts/bank transactions (or Hospital Appointment/Hotel booking, etc.) that day as 'they' were a genuine customer/patient, etc.

    - If an occupant of the car is disabled or elderly/infirm, then the keeper can add that, without implying who was driving. A copy of the Blue Badge (BB) is a good idea to upload/attach, but a person with a long-term debilitating condition (not a broken arm!) can be disabled without a BB, and will be legally entitled to a 'reasonable adjustment'. That can and should include an extension of time, over and above free or paid-for parking time.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th May 18, 11:09 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,465 Thanks
    KeithP
    Silversurreal, please stop posting on all the threads you can find about SMART.

    Please go back to your own thread and progress your issues there.

    Thanks.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th May 18, 11:17 PM
    • 61,589 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Encourage other motorists faced with the same problem as you in the future to send me the details so that I can establish a dossier.
    OK we will do that from now on, thank you to Steve Clark for taking this seriously, and well done to the OP for collating those 14 cases. I wish I had started to collect them when we first noticed a pattern before Christmas.

    I think we can create a dossier of this systemic problem over the Summer, easily.

    Is this the basic POPLA TEMPLATE
    Nonono. Absolutely NOT, if you have a POPLA code. You need to read the 3rd post of the NEWBIES thread instead.

    Copy any other recent Smart POPLA appeal which has the points about:

    no keeper liability
    appellant not being shown to be the individual liable
    dodgy signs
    no landowner authority

    Obviously you do not imply who was driving, glad to see you can't recall.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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