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  • FIRST POST
    • Kristoff66
    • By Kristoff66 19th Jun 17, 7:26 AM
    • 7Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Kristoff66
    Already told them i was the driver, can i still refuse to pay?
    • #1
    • 19th Jun 17, 7:26 AM
    Already told them i was the driver, can i still refuse to pay? 19th Jun 17 at 7:26 AM
    Hi I've read through the other posts on here and still unsure. Got a letter from Britannia parking for overstaying in a private car park by 20mins. it offered 50 now or 85 after 14 days. I appealed online before i read the bit on here about not admitting who the driver was. Basically told them that i was driving that day and was late returning due to my toddler being sick, also that i find their charges unreasonable.
    I'm not sure now whether to ignore them completely or try appealing through popla. Everything on the internet suggests that Britannia are a soft touch but I'm that level of skint i can't really risk having to pay court fees because at the end of the day whatever excuse, it was my fault for overstaying so surely they would win. Plus if i have appealed does that mean I've admitted responsibility?
    Thanks, Chris
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 19th Jun 17, 8:18 AM
    • 19,422 Posts
    • 30,696 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 17, 8:18 AM
    • #2
    • 19th Jun 17, 8:18 AM
    Plus if i have appealed does that mean I've admitted responsibility?
    Depends what you said. Get your rejection from Britannia which should come with a POPLA code.

    Use your time now on learning about how to appeal to POPLA, where, with forum assistance, this can be kicked into the long grass. Start your research on POPLA by reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3.

    i can't really risk having to pay court fees
    Why do you think you'll have to pay court fees? Britannia have only had 3 small claims court appearances in the past 2.5 years (and they aren't necessarily linked to parking issues).

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Britannia_Parking_Group.html

    The maximum court fees you'd be asked to pay (if you lost, I we'd do our utmost to ensure you didn't) would by 50.

    also that i find their charges unreasonable.
    Forget that line of argument. Largely dismissed by the Supreme Court in the ParkingEye v Beavis case. Won't fly much now.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 19th Jun 17, 8:26 AM
    • 10,002 Posts
    • 9,829 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 17, 8:26 AM
    • #3
    • 19th Jun 17, 8:26 AM
    Although you mat have overstayed for a while, was it 100 worth of parking? If not, it may well be a penalty, and private companies cannot impose penalties on their customers.

    They might be able to prove breach of contract, but only if their contract was rock solid, that their signs were legal, made sense, and thetr paperwork tickety-boo, a lot of ifs.

    They have the mountain to climb, all you need do is ask them lots of difficult questions.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Kristoff66
    • By Kristoff66 19th Jun 17, 9:15 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Kristoff66
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 17, 9:15 AM
    • #4
    • 19th Jun 17, 9:15 AM
    Many Thanks for quick reply. I'd read that you could have to pay court fees up to about 400 if you lose. Most people think it won't go that far it's just every so often you see someone who says it did. I'll read that link now ta
    • Redx
    • By Redx 19th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    • 19,253 Posts
    • 24,463 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 4:47 PM
    its small claims court, so as long as the claim is correctly defended , the fees would be typically around 75 , plus the cost of the pcn , so about 175 for one claim for one instance of parking

    do the research so you dont fall into the assumption trap or fake news traps
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 6:05 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:05 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:05 PM
    I'd read that you could have to pay court fees up to about 400 if you lose.
    Originally posted by Kristoff66
    Wrong. Where did you read that? And it's only Britannia! Britannia ones are dead easy and their signs are awful (sometimes missing altogether). In fact, Britannia are so tame that I am disappointed when I go to Waitys and fail to collect one.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kristoff66
    • By Kristoff66 19th Jun 17, 6:33 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Kristoff66
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:33 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:33 PM
    Haha. Thanks for that, when u look up pcn's you come across a thousand different stories all claiming similar things but then every so often you find one that says they got screwed for hundreds or that the law has changed which puts doubt in the mind
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:35 PM
    The law did change, in 2012 re 'keeper liability', but you blew that slam-dunk winning appeal point into the middle of next week by saying who was driving.

    At the end of the day it's only Britannia! Get some pics of the dreadful lack of signs, if local.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kristoff66
    • By Kristoff66 19th Jun 17, 6:48 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Kristoff66
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:48 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:48 PM
    Yea a bit gutted i thought I'd whack a quick appeal through b4 i looked online and realised I'm a dumbass. I guess I'll give the popla appeal a go and then when they turn me down I'll use the templates to tell Britannia to do one and keep me fingers crossed!
    • Kristoff66
    • By Kristoff66 15th May 18, 8:19 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Kristoff66
    Notice of debt recovery assignment
    Can't see how to attach the letter on here but I have received a few letters from one debt recovery company called Debt Recovery Plus ltd., then it changed to a different company called Zenith collections.
    The current amount owed is 160 but they're offering me to pay 100 now. I'm presuming that court is still an unlikely option and that the fact that they're offering a reduced payment is a hint that they're just pushing me to break. Although I do have the slight concern that I admitted to being the driver and that even though the charge is wholly unfair, a court may side with them seeing as I did overstay my parking by longer than the allowed time to leave the car park.
    They do say 'It is our intention to collect this debt and pursue it to a legal conclusion if necessary.
    Any advice would be appreciated thanks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th May 18, 8:21 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,465 Thanks
    KeithP
    Post #4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread gives comprehensive guidance on how to deal with debt collector's letters.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th May 18, 8:23 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Zenith are not a different company, and the NEWBIES thread tells you that.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kristoff66
    • By Kristoff66 4th Sep 18, 8:49 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Kristoff66
    onto the letter of claim from BW legal now, sorry if i'm asking any stupid questions but i'm not too smart about all this and not done it before, i've read through the newbies and other threads. It seems likely that court proceedings could well happen? Just to reiterate, I have admitted to being the driver and don't have a great defence seeing as I overstayed by 20 minutes in the car park. With this in mind I'm in two minds whether to nip it in the bud and set up a payment to avoid any stress or extra fees. If I do decide to contest this letter of claim, the other templates I've looked at on the forum seem to have much stronger arguments about the circumstances of their parking issue.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Sep 18, 9:20 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It seems likely that court proceedings could well happen?
    Yes, probably.

    But we see wins reported in 99% of cases over almost 2 years.

    ''Overstay'' of 20 minutes can be argued as 10 minutes on arrival, then 10 minutes after allowed parking time, both of which are within the BPA Code Of Practice. Two periods, separate times either side of the parking time, are allowed, and Kelvin Reynolds of the BPA says this about the times:

    https://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods

    Kelvin Reynolds, Head of Public Affairs and Policy at the British Parking Association (BPA) says there is a difference between 'grace' periods and 'observation' periods in parking and that good practice allows for this.

    ''No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.''

    Kelvin continues: ''In the instance of a PCN being issued while a ticket is being purchased, the operator has clearly not given the motorist sufficient time to read the signs and comply as per the operator’s own rules. If a motorist decides they do not want to comply and leaves the car park, then a reasonable period of time should be provided also.''
    With this in mind I'm in two minds whether to nip it in the bud and set up a payment to avoid any stress or extra fees.
    Originally posted by Kristoff66
    But that would mean paying 100 at least!

    And the PCN is only 85, and any court fees a max of fifty quid including any hearing fee...so what sort of saving is that, bearing in mind the winners in court on this forum pay nothing, and can claim their costs (three reported wins in the past 24 hours, one of whom got over 150 in their own costs awarded against the scumbag parking firm).


    If I do decide to contest this letter of claim, the other templates I've looked at on the forum seem to have much stronger arguments about the circumstances of their parking issue.
    Originally posted by Kristoff66
    Not really, a reply to an LBC should not be a template anyway, IMHO. Just a list of the evidence you want to see before court stage.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Sep 18, 9:22 PM
    • 19,422 Posts
    • 30,696 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What happened when you had the chance of a POPLA 12 months ago last June? What did POPLA say?

    Britannia are not rabid pursuers via the court, but seeing that BWL are involved, you need to deal with this seriously.

    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Britannia_Parking_Group.html

    You need to narrow down exactly what it is and why it is that Britannia are pursuing you, then, set in that context, respond to the LBC and request what it is you are entitled to under the Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAP). The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 should be read to give you ideas on how to respond to BWL, but some of those threads are a little dated now.

    Here's the PAP, for reference:

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 04-09-2018 at 9:40 PM. Reason: Tidying greengrocer's apostrophes, thanks to iPad's predictive text! Again ....
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Kristoff66
    • By Kristoff66 5th Sep 18, 9:13 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Kristoff66
    Thanks, Having checked the specifics, I left the car park 28 mins after the ticket expired so can't really argue the 10 or 20 mins grace period. When I appealed through POPLA I truthfully stated that I had not noticed the signage in the car park but having seen their photographic evidence it's quite obvious that I was just not paying attention and didn't stop to read any of the signs, I also explained that the charge was not reasonable compared to any loss they would have suffered. I lost the appeal.
    The current balance due through BWL is 145 but estimated total after court is 228.66
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Sep 18, 9:14 PM
    • 61,591 Posts
    • 74,490 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    estimated total after court is 228.66
    But that is false.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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