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    • Merchandiser2367
    • By Merchandiser2367 18th Jun 17, 7:46 PM
    • 173Posts
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    Merchandiser2367
    Buy to Let Newbies - Tax advice needed please
    • #1
    • 18th Jun 17, 7:46 PM
    Buy to Let Newbies - Tax advice needed please 18th Jun 17 at 7:46 PM
    Hi all,

    My wife and I have just invested in a buy to let property - a 2 bedroom flat.

    We have done this as would like to give our daughter a helping hand on the step on the housing ladder when she is older.

    We've already got tenants in place who pay 585 rent. The mortgage is 402 a month but after insurance, letting agents fees, maintenance and ground rent etc. we make an approx 10 loss each month which we are more than happy with as is a long term investment for on our daughter.

    If anyone out there could let us know how much tax we need to keep back each month from rent payments, it would be much appreciated as we are unsure if we have to pay tax on a loss?

    Thanking you all in advance!
Page 1
    • MonkeyDr
    • By MonkeyDr 18th Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    • 142 Posts
    • 169 Thanks
    MonkeyDr
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    Ok...

    So, your income from the flat is 585 x 12 = 7020.

    Subtract your non-finance related costs (insurance, ground rent etc); it sounds like these might add up to say 2400 / year. So income is 5600 ish.

    You pay tax on this at your marginal rate, which obviously depends on how much you earn elsewhere. If you and your wife own the property 50/50 you are each liable to pay tax on 50%, so on 2800 each. If you are 40% tax payers that would be tax bill of 1120 each.

    You then get a rebate based on the interest only bit of the mortgage (not repayment part, if that it what you have). This is currently being tapered down, so that in a few years the max rebate you would get will be 20%. Bit complicated at the moment.

    What it boils down to is tax liability depends on your other income, interest v repayment mortgage, flat ownership etc. It seems likely that your 'losses' each month will be somewhat greater than you had initially planned, and that is not accounting for voids, repairs etc. I hope your daughter appreciates it.

    But, if you are 20% tax payers, and the rental income doesn't push you into the next bracket, and it is a purely interest only mortgage, then you really are running a loss each month and probably don't have to pay any extra tax. Slightly risky investment though.
    Last edited by MonkeyDr; 18-06-2017 at 8:17 PM.
    • cte1111
    • By cte1111 18th Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    • 7,259 Posts
    • 384,725 Thanks
    cte1111
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:15 PM
    Is the mortgage a repayment mortgage or interest only? Only the interest can be used as an expense, so any repayment part will not count. This is also being gradually reduced, check out some online guides for help:

    http://www.moneysupermarket.com/landlord-insurance/buy-to-let-tax-relief/

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/buy-to-let/new-buy-to-let-tax-works-andhow-beat/

    https://www.gov.uk/renting-out-a-property/paying-tax

    This should help you work out how much of a profit you are making. The amount of tax you will then pay depends on what other income you and your wife have.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 18th Jun 17, 8:17 PM
    • 44,085 Posts
    • 52,224 Thanks
    G_M
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:17 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 17, 8:17 PM
    This post has lots of useful links including to HMRC:

    * New landlords: advice, information & links
    and

    * Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?
    • Merchandiser2367
    • By Merchandiser2367 19th Jun 17, 6:10 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 1,092 Thanks
    Merchandiser2367
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:10 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:10 PM
    Ok...

    So, your income from the flat is 585 x 12 = 7020.

    Subtract your non-finance related costs (insurance, ground rent etc); it sounds like these might add up to say 2400 / year. So income is 5600 ish.

    You pay tax on this at your marginal rate, which obviously depends on how much you earn elsewhere. If you and your wife own the property 50/50 you are each liable to pay tax on 50%, so on 2800 each. If you are 40% tax payers that would be tax bill of 1120 each.

    You then get a rebate based on the interest only bit of the mortgage (not repayment part, if that it what you have). This is currently being tapered down, so that in a few years the max rebate you would get will be 20%. Bit complicated at the moment.

    What it boils down to is tax liability depends on your other income, interest v repayment mortgage, flat ownership etc. It seems likely that your 'losses' each month will be somewhat greater than you had initially planned, and that is not accounting for voids, repairs etc. I hope your daughter appreciates it.

    But, if you are 20% tax payers, and the rental income doesn't push you into the next bracket, and it is a purely interest only mortgage, then you really are running a loss each month and probably don't have to pay any extra tax. Slightly risky investment though.
    Originally posted by MonkeyDr
    Thank you for you detailed response! Much appreciated!!

    The mortgage is a repayment mortgage as we wanted to own it at the end of the term. My wife is a 40% tax payer and I am 20% So from what you're saying, we are looking at around 140 a month?

    Not sure I have my sums correct there at all so advice would also be appreciated?

    I know you say this is a risky investment but with the mortgage being paid off by the tenant, surely we are still going to be better off even with this tax amount? Or am I missing something obvious?

    Thanks again
    • bob bank spanker
    • By bob bank spanker 19th Jun 17, 6:26 PM
    • 533 Posts
    • 1,039 Thanks
    bob bank spanker
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:26 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:26 PM
    Thank you for you detailed response! Much appreciated!!

    The mortgage is a repayment mortgage as we wanted to own it at the end of the term. My wife is a 40% tax payer and I am 20% So from what you're saying, we are looking at around 140 a month?

    Not sure I have my sums correct there at all so advice would also be appreciated?

    I know you say this is a risky investment but with the mortgage being paid off by the tenant, surely we are still going to be better off even with this tax amount? Or am I missing something obvious?

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by Merchandiser2367
    Why surely? You are making a cash loss, that you are then paying tax on. What you have done is gambled that the value of your investment (house prices) will go up.

    Not too different to me putting 50k into Unilever stocks, I will receive dividends over the next ten years, but whether I actually make money is down to other people (ie the market).

    It may pay off, it may not, but there is nothing sure about it
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 19th Jun 17, 6:57 PM
    • 6,065 Posts
    • 2,345 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:57 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Jun 17, 6:57 PM
    Thank you for you detailed response! Much appreciated!!

    The mortgage is a repayment mortgage as we wanted to own it at the end of the term. My wife is a 40% tax payer and I am 20% So from what you're saying, we are looking at around 140 a month?

    Not sure I have my sums correct there at all so advice would also be appreciated?

    I know you say this is a risky investment but with the mortgage being paid off by the tenant, surely we are still going to be better off even with this tax amount? Or am I missing something obvious?

    Thanks again
    Originally posted by Merchandiser2367

    Repairs, periods with no tenant when you have to pay the mortgage and council tax, interest rate rises on BTL mortgages, nightmare tenant that won`t pay rent and won`t leave etc. This is just a leveraged gamble that might have worked years ago, but probably won`t work so well now?
    • Merchandiser2367
    • By Merchandiser2367 19th Jun 17, 7:39 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 1,092 Thanks
    Merchandiser2367
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 7:39 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Jun 17, 7:39 PM
    Why surely? You are making a cash loss, that you are then paying tax on. What you have done is gambled that the value of your investment (house prices) will go up.

    Not too different to me putting 50k into Unilever stocks, I will receive dividends over the next ten years, but whether I actually make money is down to other people (ie the market).

    It may pay off, it may not, but there is nothing sure about it
    Originally posted by bob bank spanker
    My thought was even if the house price stayed the same and to make it easy for sums, we had a tenant in for the full term - the 93,000 mortgage would be paid off by the tenant, the loss we would make would only be in the first few years until we get the mortgage interest down Etc then it would be a smaller mortgage each month so more profit - at the end we would have 93,000 in our pocket paid be the tenant minus any losses we made along the Way? And I can't see the losses being anywhere near this?
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