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    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 18th Jun 17, 7:00 PM
    • 44Posts
    • 9Thanks
    County court claim for parking please help
    • #1
    • 18th Jun 17, 7:00 PM
    County court claim for parking please help 18th Jun 17 at 7:00 PM
    I wondered if any one can help me....

    i was renting a property that was patrolled by UKPC.
    i received numerous parking tickets, including ones on bank holidays such as new years day... I received tickets at 9,10,11pm which i didnt believe i had to pay! Now 18 months later i have received
    a claim form from SCS law for an amount that totals £1090.
    As i was about to pay this, my brother advised me of this thread and suggested posting a thread to see if anybody can help me or let me know how to go about either defending myself, or just paying the charge..... I have drafted an email in which i used one of you're templates......

    In the County Court Business Centre

    I, CAMERON INCH, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

    1. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. And as an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

    (a) There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.

    (b) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.

    (c) The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.

    (d) The Claim Form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim Form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs.

    e) The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.

    f) Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;

    i. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge

    ii. A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)

    iii. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)

    iv. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper

    v. Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter

    vi. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    vii. If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed

    g) Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another defence.

    2. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.

    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper.

    3. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.

    4. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.
    a) The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.
    b) In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.
    c) Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.
    (ii) Non existent ANPR 'data use' signage - breach of ICO rules and the BPA Code of Practice.
    (iii) It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
    (iv) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    (v) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    d) BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (ii) the sum pursued exceeds £100.
    (iii) there is / was no compliant landowner contract.

    5. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    It is believed UKPC do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.

    6. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.

    7. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.

    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:

    (a) failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 12 June 2017

    (b) Sent a template, well-known to be generic cut and paste 'Particulars' of claim relying on irrelevant case law (Beavis) which ignores the fact that this Claimant cannot hold registered keepers liable in law, due to their own choice of non-POFA documentation.

    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.

    I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.

    Cameron Inch
Page 3
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 18th Nov 17, 9:05 AM
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    I understand... Problem with this the tickets date as far back to 01/01/2016... nearly 24 months ago, exact details of tickets i dont exactly remember the sequence of be able to describe what i saw or did.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 18th Nov 17, 9:30 AM
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    That's fine. You can just record that. You need to include a section near the start.

    This statement is made from facts within my own knowledge and belief, save where indicated otherwise where information has become known to me.

    That covers information not known at the time of the ticket but learned from say the land registry or the website of IPC.

    If the parking tickets all related to the same car park, you can simply critique the signs and say insofar as I am aware the signs remained the same between dates x and y.. That makes clear what is known and where there is a doubt.

    You can also say, things like I am a careful driver, it is my usual practice before leaving a car park to ensure that I have parked within a bay

    I hope that makes sense. See what you come up with. Obviously your statement will need to be tailored so if you are not admitting to be driver your statement doesn't give that away.
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 21st Nov 17, 5:35 PM
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    • 9 Thanks
    Guys, so i received there witness statement today, the same day they would have received mine... I would love to tear it apart as it is laughable.... will i get a chance on the hearing day to do this? will the judge ask me any questions as to claims they are making?
    or will the judge simply read the statements and make his decision based upon them?
    Is there anything i can do at this stage to raise points about there witness statement or is it all said and done now?
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 21st Nov 17, 6:16 PM
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    I would love to tear it apart as it is laughable.... will i get a chance on the hearing day to do this?
    Yes. Most importantly, you will prepare a Skeleton argument, which is a short document of all your best points, citing supporting legal cases, which can be lodged prior to the hearing. In that you can challenge the reliability of the witness evidence.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Nov 17, 6:23 PM
    • 2,491 Posts
    • 3,039 Thanks
    Jopson - take the transcript. Download at the prankster I believe.
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 21st Nov 17, 6:36 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    perfect, i will work on that this week and post... is this to be taken with me on the day? or delivered again to court? serve a copy to claimant? and shall i expect one in return from the claimant?

    many thanks for your help!! it is much appreciated!!!

    also is it possible to upload images to this thread? i would like to post there " LBCC" which i never received as i have a feeling it would not comply.. but would need the more experienced posters to confirm for me.
    Self certified contract with the landowner too? anything i can mention about that?

    many thanks again.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Nov 17, 6:55 PM
    • 17,594 Posts
    • 27,811 Thanks
    also is it possible to upload images to this thread?
    Host it on tinypic, imgur or Dropbox (but not photobucket as some regulars can!!!8217;t access it anymore), then copy and paste the link into the forum reply box and post it here.

    I think you!!!8217;ve got enough posts under your belt to now post !!!8216;live!!!8217; links, but if you!!!8217;re having a message that newbies can!!!8217;t post links, then just change http to hxxp, and a regular will convert.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Nov 17, 6:56 PM
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    • 3,039 Thanks
    Anything you use as evidence, is referenced in your witness statement and served on all parties.
    You expect to get a copy of their bundle by the same deadline

    Yes, use tinypic and !!!8220;break!!!8221; the url by changing http to hxxp. We can then fix it for you

    You need to be reading post 2 of the newbies thread. This is all covered there.
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 21st Nov 17, 6:59 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    @nosferatu1001 this was in regards to a skeleton argument.. my WS has already been filed, as has the claimants...
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 21st Nov 17, 9:59 PM
    • 1,349 Posts
    • 2,698 Thanks
    perfect, i will work on that this week and post... is this to be taken with me on the day? or delivered again to court? serve a copy to claimant? and shall i expect one in return from the claimant?
    Your skeleton should be filed and served no later than 3 days before the hearing along with your costs schedule. The claimant will not produce an SA
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 22nd Nov 17, 5:32 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks

    Here is the dropbox link... any advice or pointers for the SA would be good! I have uploaded some of there images of the "clear signage" on site and a paragraph in which they have responded to my forbidding signs point!

    i have also uploaded the LBBC that i never received... i also uploaded the cost that the claimant is trying to claim..

    Thank you all its much appreciated..
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 29th Nov 17, 6:54 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Hey guys, court date looming!! Any advice or pointers on this skeleton argument draft is much appreciated :::

    thank you all!

    Cameron Inch (Defendant)
    Skeleton Argument of Cameron Inch (Defendant)

    1. This skeleton argument is to assist the court in the above matter for the hearing dated 07/12/2017.
    2. The witness and the accompanying witness statement is not credible. It contains invalid, false and vexatious statements which can be shown in this skeleton argument. Moreover, it displays a laissez-faire attitude towards submitting a truthful, factual witness statement.
    3. The defendant will highlight to the court that the claim is not only fundamentally misconceived and flawed, but that the claimant behaved unreasonably.
    4. The witness statement by Kiran Ali is contradictory, confusing and untruthful.


    1. Paragraph #2 in the claimant!!!8217;s witness statement suggests that Parkwood Management!!!8217;s contract with the landowner grants them the right to enter into contract and confer the authority upon the claimant. The claimant has not provided this contract.

    2. The claimant has failed to produce strict proof that this contract with the managing agent is still continuing after the initial 12 month period for which it is written for.

    3. Exhibit KA/1 suggests that No stopping or waiting is allowed anytime in the area, yet signage on site suggests that No parking is allowed between the hours of 7-11am. The claimant!!!8217;s signage on site is different to the contract terms and conditions.

    4. Exhibit KA/2 from the claimant shows images of signs they are suggesting are on site. The defendant would ask the claimant to put strict proof that these are the signs actually on site and not just a generic image of a sign that could be anywhere. The defendant submits that these signs do not match the actual ones on the site.

    5. In paragraph #3 of the claimants witness statement, it states that the driver agreed with the terms and conditions of parking. The defendant denies ever agreeing to the terms and conditions as I never knew what they were. As seen from the poorly photographed evidence the claimant has produced, the terms and conditions are unreadable on the claimants signs.

    6. How can anybody be entered into a contract when the terms are unreadable, confusing and contradictory.

    7. Paragraph #4 of the claimant!!!8217;s witness statement suggest the defendant broke the terms by parking on yellow lines or parking in an area with hatched markings. The defendant denies this on all occasions mentioned. As clearly seen in the evidence provided by the claimant themselves, it is clear the defendant is not parked on yellow lines or in an area with hatched markings.

    8. The defendant would like to point out that Exhibit KA/2 page23 is a totally different sign to the ones photographed in Exhibit KA/3 page 54. The defendant questions the reliability of the claimants witness statement as they have provided generic images of signs which do not match those on site.

    9. Exhibit KA/3 page 59 is a Parking charge notice that was issued at 22:01, for being parked on yellow lines. The images of the vehicle in question it can not be seen if the vehicle was on yellow lines or not. It is submitted that the defendant was not parked on yellow lines and therefore believes the claimant is bringing a claim without any reasonable consent. IT is also noted that the picture of the signage (page 70) states no parking between 7-11am, and a PCN has been issued at 22:01. It is believed the claimant is simply issuing PCN!!!8217;s without any actual case.

    10. The evidence provided by the claimant in Exhibit KA/4 is questioned by the defendant. I submit that I never received a letter before claim. The defendant notices that this evidence is not on the usual headed paper provided by SCS law and does not actually state it is a letter before claim.

    11. In paragraph #12 the claimant has brought a confusing, contradicting and simply untrue paragraph. They have stated that in some of the photographs it can be seen there are bays for those who are authorised to park. This is simply untrue and It is questioned if the author of this witness statement has ever actually been to the site because they would know that this is not the case.

    12. Also in paragraph #12, it states that parking was permitted in areas of the site that was not marked in yellow lines with the relevant authorisation. Authorisation was granted with residency as shown in my own witness statement, and I was never parked on yellow lines so it is again questioned what the actual claim is brought for

    13. It is submitted by the defendant that the only area which is free from yellow lines is the area in which he was parked in.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 29th Nov 17, 7:57 PM
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    How about at 14.

    It was held by the Lord Chancellor in Keppell v Bailey that:

    Great detriment would arise and much confusion of rights if parties were allowed to invent new modes of holding and enjoying real property, and to impress upon their lands and tenements a peculiar character, which should follow them into all hands, however remote.
    Raises the question as to whether this is a new burden being put on the tenants after an agreement had been put in place by the Landlord.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 29th Nov 17, 8:11 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    is this how a skeleton argument should be looking? i have kind of just made points about the claimants witness statement and evidence and no mention of any case law... is this to be added?
    I am confused as to what the intention of the skeleton argument is... is it a response to the evidence? or is it simply meant to be my defence but in a more bullet pointed reference...
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 29th Nov 17, 8:22 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Just added these points also...

    14. The evidence provided by the claimant is poor, confusing, and unclear. It is clear from the claimant’s own evidence, that the terms and conditions on these signs could not ever be read and seen enough to form a contract with the defendant.

    15. The defendant Is bemused by the witness’s statement paragraph #12 that the signage was not forbidding. The claimant is not offering a contractual parking agreement so they cannot issue a charge for something not on offer.

    16. The signs on site are prohibitive and cannot create a contract with a driver. The defendant refers the court to the persuasive case of PCM v Bull in which District Judge Glen ruled that there was never any contractual relationship due to the prohibition against parking at any time.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 29th Nov 17, 9:07 PM
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    Para1 add the claimant has not done so either because they are unable to do so or because the intention is to ambush the defendant in a manner in which the CPR rules were created so as to prevent

    Para2 add if the contract has not continued the claimant has neither authority to issue a ticket nor to bring these proceedings.

    Para4 add and, in the alternative if, which is denied, the signage is that from the site, the photos appended to the statement should stand as evidence in chief that they are not legible to visitors

    Para6 replace with any parking terms such as there may be on signage were illegible, confusing or contradictory, such that it is submitted that the alleged contract is void for uncertainty note: read this

    Para9 delete "consent" and replace with "basis". Add the claimants own photographic evidence provided no evidential basis for the particularised claim At the end of the para add the Defendant being parked at a time during which parking was permitted
    Last edited by Johnersh; 29-11-2017 at 9:44 PM.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 29th Nov 17, 9:12 PM
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    • 1,991 Thanks
    Para11 add it is averred that the witness statement is merely an adapted template, containing a number of inaccuracies, such that it is unreliable. Further evidence of such misleading error is likely to become evident after cross examination of Ms Ali at trial. The defendant invites the court to draw an adverse inference from any failure of the witness to attend trial

    Note though that there is conflicting law on the point (read more here ) and that if you lost the case (which you may consider unlikely, but is still a litigation risk) you could have to pay the witness costs of attending in addition.
    Last edited by Johnersh; 29-11-2017 at 9:38 PM.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 29th Nov 17, 9:42 PM
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    • 1,991 Thanks
    The skelly is a short form version of your best points - your case and the epic problems in the defendant case.

    Since the claimants whole case often hangs on one witness statement, I can see why you focus on it. However do make your best case.

    Perhaps add sub headings - defence case, lack of supporting evidence from claimant and defects in claimant witness evidence.

    Add case authority where you can.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 29th Nov 17, 9:48 PM
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    As ever... Just some thoughts. Do make sure YOU are happy with and understand everything you send off to court.
    • caminch1993
    • By caminch1993 30th Nov 17, 5:56 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Thank you for this! I will edit this tonihht with your pointers...

    Also.. does an NTK have to state it is an NTK on it? Also the same question with the LBC does it have to state it’s an LBC? I never received an LBC but they have put one in their evidence file.. I have reason to believe that this has been drafted after! Everything I have received has been on headed paper, this isn’t! It’s on my Dropbox link if you had any pointers on it I can mention!

    Many thanks again!!
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