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  • FIRST POST
    • rentmekid
    • By rentmekid 13th Jun 17, 2:36 PM
    • 75Posts
    • 29Thanks
    rentmekid
    landlord bashing
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:36 PM
    landlord bashing 13th Jun 17 at 2:36 PM
    After reading a number of posts/replies on this forum, I have noticed that many people hate the idea of someone owning more than 1 property and renting out.


    Frequent comments are: "people cant afford to buy one property, why should you have 2", or similar.


    At the end of the day, a private landlord is providing a similar service to the housing association, so why the hatred, or is it jealousy?


    Also, its not the Landlords fault that someone cant afford a house.


    Are my view justified?
Page 7
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:12 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,796 Thanks
    Guest101
    So what kind of hard work and success is it that you think should be rewarded with expensive properties?
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    If you want lots of money = make a career choice that pays lots of money
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 3:14 PM
    • 2,666 Posts
    • 7,147 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    If you want lots of money = make a career choice that pays lots of money
    Originally posted by Guest101
    So you're just spouting the same old bullocks aren't you? When you say hard work and success should be rewarded, you don't really mean that, you mean the status quo should be maintained where some jobs attract a shed load of money and some very little and it has absolutely nothing to do with how worthwhile or necessary or valuable that work is.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:14 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
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    Guest101
    What's your job title? No way in hell are you clinical!
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    And why does that matter? I know the amount of work my colleagues do. I support a lot of it. - If you're asking am I a doctor or a nurse, no. (and I earn less than a doctor does too)


    I'm not belittling it in the slightest. I'm saying that the NHS pays a decent wage to it's staff. (as well as the best pension and plenty of employee benefits)
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:16 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,796 Thanks
    Guest101
    So you're just spouting the same old bullocks aren't you? When you say hard work and success should be rewarded, you don't really mean that, you mean the status quo should be maintained where some jobs attract a shed load of money and some very little and it has absolutely nothing to do with how worthwhile or necessary or valuable that work is.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    1: careful. You're swearing.
    2: no, I'm saying that people are responsible for themselves. If your motivation is money, don't pick a job that doesn't pay well. If not, then money shouldn't be the primary driving factor.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 3:22 PM
    • 2,666 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    1: careful. You're swearing.
    2: no, I'm saying that people are responsible for themselves. If your motivation is money, don't pick a job that doesn't pay well. If not, then money shouldn't be the primary driving factor.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    ok...

    3. I don't want a fair system. I want a competitive one, where people who actually work hard and succeed are rewarded. I disagree wholeheartedly with rewarding failure.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Just a reminder.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 3:25 PM
    • 17,385 Posts
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    AdrianC
    Those two quotes from Guest101 are not mutually contradictory.

    It seems very simple to me...

    If people work within the public sector, then those roles are funded from taxes.
    If people work within the private sector, then those roles are funded from profits.
    Private sector businesses pay taxes.
    If taxes are too high, private sector businesses cease to be profitable.
    If private sector businesses aren't profitable, they cease to pay taxes.

    I'm not quite sure how there can be any difficulty in grasping these basic truisms.

    All private sector businesses employ people for one reason, and one reason only - generate profits (directly or indirectly).
    All jobs, private and public sector, pay as little as possible to balance supply and demand for the right people for the jobs. If specific individuals make more profit for a business, that business will pay them more, because the business wants to keep them from moving to the competition.

    The "third sector" - charities - are not dissimilar to the private sector, differing in that the profits they generate are spent on furthering their charitable aims, rather than distributed to investors.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 3:29 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    Those two quotes from Guest101 are not mutually contradictory.

    It seems very simple to me...

    If people work within the public sector, then those roles are funded from taxes.
    If people work within the private sector, then those roles are funded from profits.
    Private sector businesses pay taxes.
    If taxes are too high, private sector businesses cease to be profitable.
    If private sector businesses aren't profitable, they cease to pay taxes.

    I'm not quite sure how there can be any difficulty in grasping these basic truisms.

    All private sector businesses employ people for one reason, and one reason only - generate profits (directly or indirectly).
    All jobs, private and public sector, pay as little as possible to balance supply and demand for the right people for the jobs. If specific individuals make more profit for a business, that business will pay them more, because the business wants to keep them from moving to the competition.

    The "third sector" - charities - are not dissimilar to the private sector, differing in that the profits they generate are spent on furthering their charitable aims, rather than distributed to investors.
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    But Guest101 wants a system where hard work and success are rewarded...
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:30 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
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    Guest101
    Just a reminder.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    And your point being?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 3:31 PM
    • 17,385 Posts
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    AdrianC
    But Guest101 wants a system where hard work and success are rewarded...
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Who doesn't? See what I said about supply and demand.

    Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:35 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
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    Guest101
    But Guest101 wants a system where hard work and success are rewarded...
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    I still don't see your point?


    If you choose a vocation - you are rewarded two fold - once via monetary payment and once via self satisfaction.


    Nurses, Teachers, anyone in the public service doesn't work for free - they are still paid.


    I think you missed off the key bit - I don't want failure to be rewarded, which is what would happen if legislation is passed to prevent property being sold to the highest bidder. You are rewarding someone who has made a poor choice, by safeguarding the interests, at the expense of another persons.


    If your motivation is to buy a house (and not everyone's is) then make the correct choices to do that.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 3:47 PM
    • 2,666 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    Who doesn't? See what I said about supply and demand.

    Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Supply and demand is not a system that rewards hard work and success.

    If people are happy with a 'dog eat dog' every man for himself system, fine, just be honest about it! Don't say you want hard work rewarded when that's clearly not what you mean!
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 3:49 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,796 Thanks
    Guest101
    Supply and demand is not a system that rewards hard work and success.

    If people are happy with a 'dog eat dog' every man for himself system, fine, just be honest about it! Don't say you want hard work rewarded when that's clearly not what you mean!
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    When you think of the word 'reward' what do you envisage?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 4:03 PM
    • 17,385 Posts
    • 15,735 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Supply and demand is not a system that rewards hard work and success.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Of course it is. Supply of people who will work hard and succeed is finite - but there is great demand for them.

    Even if we only look at financial rewards, nobody works in a world where there are no options to improve your remuneration.
    You can push your employer to reward your success and work with increased remuneration, which may come with a promotion.
    You can look to find a different employer who will value your work and success.
    If you find options in your current employment field are too limited, you can work to change your field.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Jun 17, 4:08 PM
    • 2,666 Posts
    • 7,147 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Of course it is. Supply of people who will work hard and succeed is finite - but there is great demand for them.

    Even if we only look at financial rewards, nobody works in a world where there are no options to improve your remuneration.
    You can push your employer to reward your success and work with increased remuneration, which may come with a promotion.
    You can look to find a different employer who will value your work and success.
    If you find options in your current employment field are too limited, you can work to change your field.
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    Cognitive dissonance in action.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 14th Jun 17, 4:18 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,796 Thanks
    Guest101
    Cognitive dissonance in action.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    Not sure why you think simply saying something like this makes it true.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 4:29 PM
    • 17,385 Posts
    • 15,735 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Cognitive dissonance in action.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    The fact that you're in denial about reality doesn't mean it isn't reality.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Jun 17, 4:59 PM
    • 16,684 Posts
    • 41,272 Thanks
    FBaby
    Then those landlords should be looking at how to improve their business, or get out of it
    Except that 'getting out of it' comes at a price. Sometimes, the benefit of equity as future investment is enough to remain a LL and see it as that, an investment rather than a business to make an immediate profit.

    Surely that goes against the notion of LLs being in it for greed?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 14th Jun 17, 5:02 PM
    • 17,385 Posts
    • 15,735 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Except that 'getting out of it' comes at a price.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Otherwise known as "cutting your losses"

    Sometimes, the benefit of equity as future investment is enough to remain a LL and see it as that, an investment rather than a business to make an immediate profit.
    Entirely speculative, of course. And that speculative investment HAS to be considered hand-in-hand with the business activities, unless the property is being left empty (or is owner-occupied).
    • ModernSlave
    • By ModernSlave 14th Jun 17, 5:26 PM
    • 214 Posts
    • 199 Thanks
    ModernSlave
    I'd like to differentiate between UK landlords and foreign ones. I read this article today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/13/foreign-investors-snapping-up-london-homes-suitable-for-first-time-buyers

    Research for London mayor, Sadiq Khan, shows homes being used as buy-to-let investments and being held in off-shore tax havens


    This may only apply to major cities but I have a big problem with foreign investors buying up UK flats and keeping them empty to preserve their 'new' value.
    I would like to see foreign investors face much tighter restrictions on buying UK property, like a lot of other countries with limited land have done. Then maybe we wouldn't see so many calls to build on our precious green belt, or sky high prices on starter homes.

    As for UK-based landlords, accidental or not, you are privileged to have a valuable asset that many people aspire to own for their residence. If you complain about having such a privilege it's only natural for people to speak out indignantly. The name-calling on either side is unnecessary.

    On the bright side we are coming into a period of high employment and low interest rates. BTL has dropped considerably and I see both house asking prices and rental prices coming down.

    Now is the time to SAVE your deposit or make in-roads into your mortgage.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Jun 17, 5:42 PM
    • 16,684 Posts
    • 41,272 Thanks
    FBaby
    Otherwise known as "cutting your losses"
    Not really business minded then!

    Running a successful and prolific business means being ruthless. The only reason you would be 'nice' to a customer is purely on the basis of you gaining something from their business. If you can keep the custom by spending less on the merchandise, that's what you do. If you think that you can attract a better customer, you dump your current one.

    You can't critisize LLs for not running their business in such productively minded ways, and then critisize those who do and are considered greedy rather than productive.
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