You know full well what I mean!

If its going to be an AST, its going to be someone's home. Homes are too important to be business, I think they should be in the public sector if they are not owner occupied.

I know its not popular, but that's my view!

Are they though, that is the question, how do you know they don`t stay for a month or two then jump into a 500 p.m flat?

Thank-you for taking the time to read through the report and the annexes, makes for a much better discussion.

I'm afraid that I left the spreadsheet with my workings out on my office PC. From the top of my head I discounted social sector units (which wouldn't be available to either OO or Landlords) and worked out ratios of ownership on the remainder. If I still have the workings out I'll share them tomorrow.

https://www.property118.com/buy-sell-hold-get-altogether/99898/


One solution is to start "Caning the rents" apparently. I might even start a thread on this at some point

This very much sums up the attitude about LL on this forum. It assumes that all LLs have bought a second property for the sole purpose of earning additional income. It also assumes that all LLs are greedy and will want to make as much profit as possible at the detriment of the customer. It assumes that LLs make a nice profit each month, which they spend laughing at its poor tenant who has no choice but to accept all the conditions.

It forgets that a large number of tenants have become so through changes in situations rather than them looking to become so. It forgets that many LL will not make £1 profit once all costs/tax/mortgage is taken into account, and for some, it will even cost them each month. It forgets that for a number of LL, the only benefit of being a LL is the investment in equity that will serve as a pension for their future, ie. save the tax payers later in life.

So is it so bad that a LL could 'benefit' when it suits the tenant, a tenant who might very well one day become a LL themselves one day?

There is no other reason to undertake ANY business activity.

It's a very poor business which isn't run with the intent of making a profit, no matter what the business does.

Then those landlords should be looking at how to improve their business, or get out of it.

Then those people are fools, because they are making a very unpredictable investment decision, wrapped in a very poor tax situation compared to proper pension investments. They are either buying in to that investment at the wrong time in the cycle, or failing to take their profit at an ideal time.

Long-term capital gain is a side benefit from a residential lettings business. It should never be the long-term aim, especially when short-term income is lacking - or even negative.

But you'll notice I snipped swathes of your text. That was deliberate - because you are making one huge leap of logic. Profit and sensible business management are NOT incompatible with providing a good environment for your tenants. Quite the opposite... Happy tenants are good, long-term tenants. A good property to live in is one that gives low maintenance costs and few voids.

Well that is the figure I am looking at for a monthly payment. I have saved since I was a teenager for a 30k deposit and I can only JUST afford the cheapest properties in my area. 1 bed properties here start at 150k - 160k. Not an interest only mortgage.

Like I said - best rate for a 90% mortgage is 2.49%. If you're looking at a lower LtV, you may get a better rate. If you're looking at just an intro discount, then you may get a better rate, but that WILL end before you've blinked, so is very unwise to budget on... That was based on 25yrs - a longer term may give you a slightly lower payment, but a much higher total cost.

What rates/products/term are you looking at?

At £150k with a £120k mortgage, you'd be looking at 80% LTV - assuming you have other money for fees etc. That gets you 1.75% from Coventry BS, from the mortgage best buy page here.

Good luck!

sorry for not being glued to this thread you muppet

ok...


1: some people don't want to live in your little rabbit hutch starter homes. So I think you've already made a presumption that FTB will only buy those / people will choose to rent those.


2: Life isn't fair, whoever told you otherwise was lying to you.


3. I don't want a fair system. I want a competitive one, where people who actually work hard and succeed are rewarded. I disagree wholeheartedly with rewarding failure.

80% of 1beds and 50% of 2 beds are owned by landlords?


...and 100% of that information is fabricated......

Not fabricated. Cherry-picked, extrapolated and spun, perhaps.

Why are you conflating cash buyers with landlords?
What is a "starter home"
Why would cash buyers needlessly pay over the odds for a property (your implication) - if they are investors its important they keep within their budget to make the BTL work.

!!!8220;OP hasn't come back to add anything further to the discussion so I suspect his intention was to try and stir up an argument.
Originally posted by fairy lights !!!8221;

@rentmekid "sorry for not being glued to this thread you muppet "

Point proven

Ye, I did take a glance too.


But the poster is manipulating the figures to suit the argument.

credibility?

Crashy Time?

here is a link: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oxymoron

Well, I don't think cherry picked is fair - extrapolated yes. I think it's fair to discount social sector units as they're not available to either owner occupiers or landlords, and look at how ownership is distributed for housing types within the private sector alone.

Going off table AT2.2 of the second annex of the English Housing Survey the ownership distributions for private sector properties are as follows:

1 Bed 1 Person Studio/Flat: 22% Owner Occupier / 78% Landlord
1 Bed 2 Person Studio/Flat: 39% Owner Occupier / 61% Landlord
2 Bed 3 Person Flat/House: 60% Owner Occupier / 40% Landlord
2 bed 4 Person Flat/House: 63% Owner Occupier / 37% Landlord
3 Bed 4 Person Flat/House: 76% Owner Occupier / 24% Landlord
3 Bed 5 Person Flat/House: 82% Owner Occupier / 18% Landlord
....and so on in increasing proportions for owner occupiers.

I apologise for remembering the wrong figures (and and derailing the conversation in that regard) . However I do think that the distribution does demonstrate that landlords own a) the majority of private sector 1 bed units and b) over a third of private sector 2 bed units.

These are the types of properties which my rightmove continually tells me are 'ideal for first time buyers' and then also adds in 'or investors'. in my mind this quite clearly demonstrates that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same housing stock.

Oh I see, so this is a problem with what a company is telling you in it's marketing material. Now I understand.


FTBs aren't usually buying the studio or one bed options by choice.

Can you see the difference...?

You're instantly discarding up to 40-odd% of the total housing stock in each category... Yet we're constantly told that "Social housing is rocking horse"... No, it isn't. It's just that security of tenure makes it available rarely, and demand outstrips supply. Where is that demand coming from, if not from people who are currently in the private rental market, and not able or willing to look at ownership?

1x single is only 6% of all 1x bed properties.
Private rental is 31% of all 1x bed, and 62% of all private sector 1x bed.
That's a BIG difference from "80% of all"...

Again, they're not two equal-size categories, although they're less uneven than 1x bed.

About 42% of all private-sector 2x bed are private rental. Some way short of the 50% figure...

Agreed with that - but that's not the same thing as the original claim of "80%/50% of all", is it?

Bear in mind many of the "or investors" properties will just not be suitable for any mortgage buyers - there's a variety of reasons for that, but they are often simply unmortgageable for some reason, usually relating to leases or commercial property restrictions. It doesn't matter whether that's a BtL buyer or a potential owner-occupier.

Equally, many properties are unavailable to potential landlords, because of lease restrictions on lettings - which can also dissuade potential owner-occupiers, because they think they may wish to let out as and when they move on in the future.

http://news.sky.com/story/applications-from-eu-nurses-to-work-in-uk-down-96-since-brexit-vote-10913295


The supply of people up for paying 750 p.m for a dodgy flat is dwindling, just wait til they cut benefits for EU nationals......