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  • FIRST POST
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 13th Jun 17, 2:35 AM
    • 2,060Posts
    • 1,386Thanks
    Tom99
    Voluntary Class 3 NI Contributions How to Pay
    • #1
    • 13th Jun 17, 2:35 AM
    Voluntary Class 3 NI Contributions How to Pay 13th Jun 17 at 2:35 AM
    I would like to pay for some backdated Class 3 voluntary NI contributions.
    It seems the only way to do this is by writing a letter to HMRC stating the years required and enclosing a cheque.
    There does not seem to be any Form to fill in, nor any way of paying online.
    Is this correct?
Page 1
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 13th Jun 17, 4:10 AM
    • 6,246 Posts
    • 5,373 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 4:10 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Jun 17, 4:10 AM
    Hi,

    have you had a bill yet, do you know how much you owe?

    From Gov.uk,

    3. Bank details for online or telephone banking, CHAPS, Bacs

    Make your payment to the following HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) bank account, unless youre paying from overseas.
    Sort code Account number Account name 08 32 20 12001004 HMRC NICO Telephone banking Reference number

    Use your reference number when making your payment. Youll find it on your bill.
    For quarterly payments, your number will be 18 characters beginning with 11 and ending X.
    For one-off payments, your number will be 18 characters beginning with 60 and ending X.
    Y'all take care now.
    • woolly_wombat
    • By woolly_wombat 13th Jun 17, 9:23 AM
    • 524 Posts
    • 333 Thanks
    woolly_wombat
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 9:23 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Jun 17, 9:23 AM
    I would like to pay for some backdated Class 3 voluntary NI contributions.
    It seems the only way to do this is by writing a letter to HMRC stating the years required and enclosing a cheque.
    There does not seem to be any Form to fill in, nor any way of paying online.
    Is this correct?
    Originally posted by Tom99
    Be aware that if you have opted out of SERPS/S2P in the past then it might only be worth paying voluntary NICs from 6th April 2016 onwards.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Jun 17, 12:08 PM
    • 25,371 Posts
    • 14,967 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:08 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jun 17, 12:08 PM
    I would like to pay for some backdated Class 3 voluntary NI contributions.
    You come under the new state pension scheme?

    Have you obtained a forecast?

    https://www.royallondon.com/Global/documents/GoodWithYourMoney/TOPPING-UP-YOUR-STATE-PENSION-GUIDE.pdf
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 14th Jun 17, 5:02 AM
    • 2,060 Posts
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    Tom99
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 5:02 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Jun 17, 5:02 AM
    Thank you for the replies.
    I have a state pension forecast and understand which years I will benefit from paying.
    Since I don't have a bill or reference number it seems the only option is to write a letter.
    That is fine, I don't mind but in these days where nearly everything can be done online it seemed a bit old fashioned.
    Thanks for the help and links.
  • jamesd
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:53 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Jun 17, 6:53 AM
    A bit old fashioned but it's what I did to buy seven years some years back:

    "name, address, NI number
    Please find enclosed my cheque for xxx for voluntary class 3 NICs for the 7 years yyyy through zzzz inclusive."
    • bodjen0611
    • By bodjen0611 14th Jun 17, 9:08 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    bodjen0611
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:08 AM
    Paying Class3
    • #7
    • 14th Jun 17, 9:08 AM
    Hi,

    there seems to be various ways you can pay.
    Hope this link helps

    https://www.gov.uk/pay-voluntary-class-3-national-insurance

    R
    • clivep
    • By clivep 15th Jun 17, 12:25 PM
    • 327 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    clivep
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:25 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:25 PM
    Hi,

    there seems to be various ways you can pay.
    Hope this link helps

    https://www.gov.uk/pay-voluntary-class-3-national-insurance

    R
    Originally posted by bodjen0611
    There are plenty of ways to pay once you have a bill but it's getting a bill that I can't see how to do online.

    My wife has a small deduction to her forecast due to a few years contracted out. She therefore wants to buy class 3 for the 2016-2017 tax year. She can see her forcast in her online account which says for the 2016-2017 year "Your record for this year is not available yet".

    I know exactly what year she wants to buy and how much it costs but cannot find any information about how to do this online. Can you only get a bill by phoning them or writing to them?

    Requesting a written statement wouldn't work as it says "Please note: HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) will only include tax years that ended more than 12 months ago in your statement. This is because it can take quite some time for all of the National Insurance you have paid, or been credited with, to appear on your statement" so I couldn't get one for the 2016-2017 tax year.
    Last edited by clivep; 15-06-2017 at 12:32 PM.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 15th Jun 17, 12:38 PM
    • 25,371 Posts
    • 14,967 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:38 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jun 17, 12:38 PM
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-insurance-application-to-pay-voluntary-national-insurance-contributions-ca5603
    • molerat
    • By molerat 15th Jun 17, 1:15 PM
    • 18,563 Posts
    • 12,720 Thanks
    molerat
    Only really any good for paying current contributions by DD.

    From bodjen0611's link try here https://www.gov.uk/pay-voluntary-class-3-national-insurance/by-post
    Send your payment to:
    HM Revenue and Customs
    National Insurance Contributions and Employer Office
    Benton Park View
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    NE98 1ZZ
    If you dont have an HMRC payslip

    Include a note with:
    • your name, address and phone number
    • your Class 3 National Insurance contributions reference number (or National Insurance number)
    • how much youre paying
    • the period youre paying for
    Quite straightforward and how I have done it before.
    Last edited by molerat; 15-06-2017 at 1:21 PM.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • Sledgehead
    • By Sledgehead 6th Apr 18, 12:26 PM
    • 129 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    Sledgehead
    Annoying secrecy over References
    As the OP indicates, there is an apparent reticence on HMRC's part to give people easy access to voluntary payment.

    This could be for several reasons:
    - you might have enough contributory years already so won't benefit from extra payments;
    - it will cost jobs if they just told you how to work the reference out yourself;
    - it might cause security issues if they told you what the reference was composed of (tho I think not telling people poses a greater risk.

    So, to that end, I'm gonna tell you, based on a sample of one (me!) how I think the references are 'constructed'. If others have reference numbers in their possession, they might wanna help me confirm this theory, so that we can then all confidently 'construct' references, freeing us from the delay of written requests or lengthy telephone queuing.

    Just one caveat: I still don't know what the last digit means ... but maybe we can work this out together.

    Okay, here goes:

    NI Reference Parts
    -------------------------------

    Here's a typical 18-digit ref number with the digits replaced with characters:

    PPNNNNNNLLLLQ

    Parts with the same character represent the same type of information. The length of that info is represented by the length of that character repeat.

    Let's break it down:

    PP
    ----

    The first two digits are a code for the Period you wish to pay. Periods are:

    whole year: PP = 60


    ----------

    The next five digits encode the amount you want to pay. There are two ways of constructing this:

    amount < 1000: = 52 x weekly_nic_in_pence
    amount >= 1000: = 99999

    As an eg, if weekly nics = 14.10:
    14.10 = 1410p
    52 x 1410 = 73320
    so:
    = 73320

    NNNNNN
    -----------------

    The next six digits encode the digits in your NI Number in pairs.

    I'm gonna break NNNNNN into 3 pairs:

    NN NN NN

    and name them

    NN1 NN2 NN3

    If your NI number is AB 11 22 33 C,

    NN1 = 33
    NN2 = 11
    NN3 = 22

    So the completed NNNNNN section will be:

    NNNNNN = 331122

    So they basically switch the number pairs around a bit.

    LLLL
    --------

    The next 4 digits again come from your NI number, but this time they encode the first two Letters.

    Again, I'll split the 4 digits into two pairs:

    LL1 LL2

    For a NI number AB 11 22 33 C:

    LL1 relates to A
    LL2 relates to B

    The letters are represented by their count in the alphabet, padded with a '0' for numbers less than 9.

    So A=01, B=02, C=03 .... X=26

    So for NI number AB 11 22 33 C:

    LL1 = 01 (ie A)
    LL2 = 02 (ie B)

    And:

    LLLL = 0102

    Q
    --

    Honestly? Q is a single digit, but I have no idea what it encodes. Answers on a postcard ...

    Bringing it altogether
    ------------------------------------

    Taking our example :
    NI number = AB 11 22 33 C
    Yearly class 3 nic = 733.20

    Reference :
    PP NNNNNN LLLL Q =
    60 73320 331122 0102 ?

    Where '?' is still a mystery.

    PS: remember to say if you concur with this assessment so that we can have more confidence in this approach.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 6th Apr 18, 12:45 PM
    • 2,060 Posts
    • 1,386 Thanks
    Tom99
    PS: remember to say if you concur with this assessment so that we can have more confidence in this approach.
    Originally posted by Sledgehead
    That's interesting, unfortunately I can't check if you are right because I just posted them a cheque for 2016/17.
    Also later posted them a cheque for 2017/18 which I later found out I did not need to pay for as I am due a credit. Luckily a refund was paid.
    It is only due to the MSE Forum that I found out about this credit. HMRC had written to me saying I could pay more NI to top up and, even today, my online forecast say I can pay to top up no mention of the credit at all!
    • Linton
    • By Linton 6th Apr 18, 12:55 PM
    • 9,373 Posts
    • 9,505 Thanks
    Linton
    What happened with my wife's application:
    1) Ring HMRC - they asked her to get confirmation from the Future Pension Service that this was in her best interests. I this is needed mainly if you are buying pre 2016 years.
    2) After talking to HMRC again they sent her a form to fill in. It included a request for bank details.
    3) As she just needed to buy the current year's NI, HMRC have taken the contributions quarterly by DD.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 6th Apr 18, 3:24 PM
    • 18,563 Posts
    • 12,720 Thanks
    molerat
    As long as you are happy that your NI record is accurate, understand what the figures on your forecast mean and understand how the system works you don't really need to ask HMRC for confirmation. You probably only have a 50/50 chance of getting a correct answer anyway.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 6th Apr 18, 4:06 PM
    • 2,060 Posts
    • 1,386 Thanks
    Tom99
    As long as you are happy that your NI record is accurate, understand what the figures on your forecast mean and understand how the system works you don't really need to ask HMRC for confirmation. You probably only have a 50/50 chance of getting a correct answer anyway.
    Originally posted by molerat
    Yes a 50/50 chance is worrying but in many cases you are not given enough information in the forecast to make the correct choice. Particularly when NI top up years are involved.
    You may be able to work out that topping up 4 years will get you a full pension but are not told that maybe some years for which a figure is quoted ( say 2006-2015) won't add a jot to you pension.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 6th Apr 18, 4:47 PM
    • 18,563 Posts
    • 12,720 Thanks
    molerat
    You may be able to work out that topping up 4 years will get you a full pension but are not told that maybe some years for which a figure is quoted ( say 2006-2015) won't add a jot to you pension.
    Originally posted by Tom99
    Which is covered by
    understand what the figures on your forecast mean and understand how the system works
    Originally posted by molerat
    Unfortunately some of the telephone advisors are not 100% up to speed.
    Last edited by molerat; 06-04-2018 at 4:49 PM.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
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