Debate House Prices


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Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

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  • mayonnaise wrote: »
    I thought leaving the EU would take us out of NATO and the UN also.
    I know it wasn't on the ballot paper, I just assumed it would.
    No, the UK was a founding member of Nato in the early 50's.
    Way before the Common Market and certainly well before the EU.
  • mayonnaise
    mayonnaise Posts: 3,690 Forumite
    Perhaps you would explain what you think a so-called "soft Brexit" would entail?
    Bearing in mind the "Four Freedoms" that Eurocrats warn come as a package and also that retaining any of these in return for payment is tantamount to membership, and thus would not comply with the result of our referendum to leave the EU.
    This has been done to death on this forum, can't be bothered anymore, sorry.
    I'll just refer to Hamish's succinct explanation (hope you don't mind, Hamish)
    The EU is the European Union - it's a formal and political union of nations. That is what we voted to leave.

    However countries that are not members of the EU can still be members of the European Free Trade Agreement, or the European Economic Area, or the Customs Union.

    Countries that are not members of the EU can still enjoy the significant economic benefits of single market access through membership of these bodies - while also retaining control of their own agriculture, fisheries, justice system, benefits policies, etc.

    They are also not subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

    So when people talk of a 'hard Brexit' they mean leaving the EU, but also leaving the EEA and EFTA and CU.

    When people talk of a 'soft Brexit' they mean leaving the EU, but then joining the EEA/EFTA and/or CU.

    Which removes legal supremacy from the ECJ, returns control of agriculture, fishing, benefits policy and justice to the UK, but agrees to pay some fees and accept some joint trade regulations for access to the single market.

    The only real issue that some people seem to object to with a 'soft Brexit' is immigration - as some form of reciprocal access for workers, students and retirees would have to be agreed.

    But equally as a soft Brexit would return far more control of benefits policy it would be about 'workers' rather than 'part time workers that also claim benefits' which is what most people seem to object to.
    Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,662
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    Rinoa wrote: »
    If they want a low wage economy, why are they increasing the minimum wage to £9+ by 2020. And why do they want to stop all that cheap labour coming from the EU.

    They've also been talking about making the minimum wage variable, thus lowering it in poorer areas. They're also planning on scrapping the Human Rights Act to make businesses more competitive in a post Brexit Britain.
  • andrewf75
    andrewf75 Posts: 10,421
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    Perhaps you would explain what you think a so-called "soft Brexit" would entail?
    Bearing in mind the "Four Freedoms" that Eurocrats warn come as a package and also that retaining any of these in return for payment is tantamount to membership, and thus would not comply with the result of our referendum to leave the EU.

    "tantamount to" is not membership

    Plenty of people voted leave wanting some form of soft Brexit. Whether they fully understood is irrelevant. The point is the vote was about leaving the EU. If we end up like Norway or Switzerland or Iceland or whoever else, then that has fully (100%) complied with the referendum result which only asked whether we want to be a member or not.
  • andrewf75
    andrewf75 Posts: 10,421
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    movilogo wrote: »
    There is no such thing as soft/hard Brexit. The referendum was all about whether to remain or leave EU where "leave" was a majority.

    Soft Brexit is a term invented by politicians who don't want to leave EU. Leaving EU means end of single market, end of free movement of people, end of jurisdiction of EU parliament/court.

    Hard Brexit = what referendum answered
    Soft Brexit = what politicians have decided to do as they didn't like the referendum outcome

    Yes soft Brexit is a way of salvaging something by remainers of course, but it was also what many leavers wanted so put the two together and that’s a majority.
    I just don’t get how you can come out with this stuff and think anyone will believe it. You must know there are loads of quotes out there from leave campaigners advocating “Swiss style deals” and all the rest of it. The evidence is all still there that many people who voted leave did NOT want out of the single market.
  • gfplux
    gfplux Posts: 4,985
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    We now know from Theresa May that the Brexit negotiations WILL start next week.

    We also heard from Macron yesterday that "perhaps" we could stay.
    Now we hear that the door is being closed.

    "Britain is welcome to change its mind and stay in the European Union, but it should not expect to keep getting its EU budget rebates or complex opt-outs from EU rules, the European Parliament's Brexit coordinator said on Wednesday.
    "Yesterday, Emmanuel Macron, the new French president, spoke about an open door. That if Britain changes its mind it would find an open door," Guy Verhofstadt told the chamber."

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-election-eu-verhofstadt-idUKKBN1950QO
    There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.
  • always_sunny
    always_sunny Posts: 8,314 Forumite
    gfplux wrote: »
    We now know from Theresa May that the Brexit negotiations WILL start next week.

    We also heard from Macron yesterday that "perhaps" we could stay.
    Now we hear that the door is being closed.

    I think you need to accept that Brexit (to whichever form) will happen and that a Breturn is highly unlikely. The UK may need to join again the EU but it will not be what it's today (no Schengen, no Euro, etc) but full throttle.
    This may happen after Brexit yields not much.
    EU expat working in London
  • gfplux
    gfplux Posts: 4,985
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    edited 14 June 2017 at 4:37PM
    I am still a staunch Remainder and I continue to say STOP BREXIT.

    However I have a growing feeling that any control over Brexit is beginning to slip out of Britains hands. Britains fuel tank of goodwill is almost empty and many of the 27 EU members want Britain gone.

    Anyone here can talk about a "soft" Brexit. I have no idea what the **** that
    means.

    Here is a look at a soft Brexit http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/06/13/know-your-soft-brexit

    I just look forward to the transparency the EU have promised during the talks.
    There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.
  • gfplux
    gfplux Posts: 4,985
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    I think you need to accept that Brexit (to whichever form) will happen and that a Breturn is highly unlikely. The UK may need to join again the EU but it will not be what it's today (no Schengen, no Euro, etc) but full throttle.
    This may happen after Brexit yields not much.

    Sadly it looks that way.
    Britain has lost the initiative.
    There will be no Brexit dividend for Britain.
  • Rinoa
    Rinoa Posts: 2,701 Forumite
    mayonnaise wrote: »
    I thought leaving the EU would take us out of NATO and the UN also.
    I know it wasn't on the ballot paper, I just assumed it would.

    You just didn't listen did you?

    [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    If I don't reply to your post,
    you're probably on my ignore list.
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