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  • FIRST POST
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 5th Jun 17, 8:19 PM
    • 14,326Posts
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    GDB2222
    State pension forecast and COPE
    • #1
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:19 PM
    State pension forecast and COPE 5th Jun 17 at 8:19 PM
    I have my state pension forecast for when I reach retirement age later this year. It shows a pension of £159.55 pw, which I understand is the maximum.

    What is confusing me is that it also shows a COPE of £16 pw. DWP told me that I will get the £159.55 from them, without any deduction.
    In which case, why have they shown the COPE amount?

    Can anyone explain, please?
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
Page 1
    • AndyAdams
    • By AndyAdams 5th Jun 17, 8:44 PM
    • 38 Posts
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    AndyAdams
    • #2
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:44 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:44 PM
    It stands for the "contracted out pension equivilent", is a guestimate based on contracting out of the additional state pension. The idea is to show you the additional benefit you have received from the government.

    I think it justs adds confusion.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 5th Jun 17, 8:45 PM
    • 2,467 Posts
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    Dazed and confused
    • #3
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:45 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:45 PM
    To confuse everyone!

    Are you absolutely certain the £159.55 is correct. My forecast is £159.55 but when you look closer I will have to work (or get NI credits by some other method) x more years to actually reach the £159.55 despite what my "forecast" says.

    The COPE amount is a nominal figure which you should receive as part of whatever contracted out pension scheme you were signed up to. They won't know about the COPE figure specifically but your (company/occupational) pension should be worth at least £16/week or quite probably a fair bit more.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 5th Jun 17, 8:59 PM
    • 14,326 Posts
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    GDB2222
    • #4
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:59 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jun 17, 8:59 PM
    Thanks for confirming that it's just confusing!

    I do get the full amount, provided that I pay or get credited NI contributions for the tax year 16-17. I posted separately about possibly paying voluntary contributions for that year.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • iwilson16
    • By iwilson16 6th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    • 32 Posts
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    iwilson16
    • #5
    • 6th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Jun 17, 4:06 PM
    The COPE figure in the state pension forecast should be *subtracted* from the forecast figure to get what you will actually receive at retirement age.

    I think you can reduce the amount of COPE deduction by working more than the 35 NI qualifying years (after Apr 2016). I think its £4.45 per year.

    My SP forecast figure is £157.65 pw, and COPE is £38.29. I hope to reduce the COPE deduction to approx £16 by working some more.

    Ian
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 6th Jun 17, 4:29 PM
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    p00hsticks
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 17, 4:29 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 17, 4:29 PM
    The COPE figure in the state pension forecast should be *subtracted* from the forecast figure to get what you will actually receive at retirement age.
    Originally posted by iwilson16
    This isn't correct - the forecast figure is what you will actually get.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 6th Jun 17, 4:37 PM
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    dunstonh
    • #7
    • 6th Jun 17, 4:37 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jun 17, 4:37 PM
    The COPE figure in the state pension forecast should be *subtracted* from the forecast figure to get what you will actually receive at retirement age.
    No it shouldnt. It is purely an indicator of what your contracted out pension benefits could be. It is a more useful figure when people dont get the maximum. They can see the reason with the COPE. However, when they do get the maximum, it is largely a pointless figure.

    Although it can be useful to compare the benefits of your contracted out plan vs the COPE. E.g. if you get COPE showing at £38 pw and the contracted out segment of your pension gives you £45 pw, then you can see that by contracting out, you are £7 pw better off. However, even that comes with lots of caveats as you could have a lump sum or take it at a different age.

    My SP forecast figure is £157.65 pw, and COPE is £38.29. I hope to reduce the COPE deduction to approx £16 by working some more.
    That isnt how it works. You may be able to get it closer to £159 but you can disregard the COPE.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • sherbet99
    • By sherbet99 28th Feb 18, 1:00 PM
    • 2 Posts
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    sherbet99
    • #8
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:00 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:00 PM
    "The COPE figure in the state pension forecast should be *subtracted* from the forecast figure to get what you will actually receive at retirement age."

    ”This isn't correct - the forecast figure is what you will actually get."

    Still doesn't sound right to me.....

    My forecast figure is the full amount £159.55.
    My COPE amount is £57.06.

    Does that mean that I will get the full £159.55 paid by the government plus I will also get the income from the Contracted Out/Protected rights pension I have build up (current value around £80k), which should give me a nice little extra income on top of the forecast figure?
    • Linton
    • By Linton 28th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • 9,329 Posts
    • 9,453 Thanks
    Linton
    • #9
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Feb 18, 1:40 PM
    "The COPE figure in the state pension forecast should be *subtracted* from the forecast figure to get what you will actually receive at retirement age."

    ”This isn't correct - the forecast figure is what you will actually get."

    Still doesn't sound right to me.....

    My forecast figure is the full amount £159.55.
    My COPE amount is £57.06.

    Does that mean that I will get the full £159.55 paid by the government plus I will also get the income from the Contracted Out/Protected rights pension I have build up (current value around £80k), which should give me a nice little extra income on top of the forecast figure?
    Originally posted by sherbet99
    The forecast figure is what you will get provided you pay any future NI specified in the forecast. The COPE was a number used in the calculation but as it happened it didnt prevent you reaching standard SP.

    Yes, those people such as yourself whose COPE is outweighed by other factors do win out if they also hold a contracted out pension.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 28th Feb 18, 1:51 PM
    • 92,138 Posts
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    dunstonh
    My forecast figure is the full amount £159.55.
    My COPE amount is £57.06.
    So, you are a beneficiary under the new state pension. You get the £159.55 plus you have contracted out benefits as well.

    Had you been contracted in, you could still be looking at £159.55 but without any extra in your personal provision.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • sherbet99
    • By sherbet99 28th Feb 18, 2:47 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sherbet99
    Great thanks for the reply's. Glad I contracted out all those years ago now.
    Last edited by sherbet99; 28-02-2018 at 2:51 PM.
    • Zookat
    • By Zookat 28th Feb 18, 4:06 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Zookat
    In 2016 my forcast was £123 plus £87 cope .

    This year I will be getting my state pension , amount confirmed at £130 per week .
    Last edited by Zookat; 28-02-2018 at 4:28 PM.
    • paulus6
    • By paulus6 9th Apr 18, 3:27 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    paulus6
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12143174/Four-million-people-retiring-from-April-could-get-the-wrong-state-pension.html

    From what this article is saying, among other things, is that you deduct the C.O.P.E figure from your state pension fourcast. You can then buy NI years to top up your state pension to the full £159/ week.
    I have a phone appointment with Pensionwise.gov soon. I will run this question past them to confirm my fears. I have a state pension fourcast of £159, and one more year of NI contributions to have the full 35 years, but a COPE figure of £28 . So I assume I will deduct this figure from the £159 unless I buy more NI years contributions ?
    • zolablue25
    • By zolablue25 9th Apr 18, 3:41 PM
    • 1,575 Posts
    • 457 Thanks
    zolablue25
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12143174/Four-million-people-retiring-from-April-could-get-the-wrong-state-pension.html

    From what this article is saying, among other things, is that you deduct the C.O.P.E figure from your state pension fourcast. You can then buy NI years to top up your state pension to the full £159/ week.
    I have a phone appointment with Pensionwise.gov soon. I will run this question past them to confirm my fears. I have a state pension fourcast of £159, and one more year of NI contributions to have the full 35 years, but a COPE figure of £28 . So I assume I will deduct this figure from the £159 unless I buy more NI years contributions ?
    Originally posted by paulus6
    It is my (limited) understanding that the COPE figure was used to estimate how far short of your full NI contributions you would fall. My cope figure was something like £40 meaning that I had to make further NI contributions to get my state pension back to the full amount. IIRC I was about 6 years short. Fortuately, I have enough working years left in me to make up this shortfall. Obviously, if you retired in 2016, when your linked to article was written, you wouldn't have had the time to make up that shortfall and you would, indeed, have received a reduced state pension ( or needed to pay additional NI premiums to make up the shortfall)

    Hopefully, your call with Pensionwise will reassure you. Perhaps you will be good enough to report back what they say about it, particularly if I have got hold of the wrong end of the stick regarding COPE
    • Asghar
    • By Asghar 9th Apr 18, 3:48 PM
    • 144 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    Asghar
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12143174/Four-million-people-retiring-from-April-could-get-the-wrong-state-pension.html

    From what this article is saying, among other things, is that you deduct the C.O.P.E figure from your state pension fourcast. You can then buy NI years to top up your state pension to the full £159/ week.
    I have a phone appointment with Pensionwise.gov soon. I will run this question past them to confirm my fears. I have a state pension fourcast of £159, and one more year of NI contributions to have the full 35 years, but a COPE figure of £28 . So I assume I will deduct this figure from the £159 unless I buy more NI years contributions ?
    Originally posted by paulus6
    No, no, no.

    What is so hard to understand, have you read the posts in this thread and your 2 years old article link properly.
    The COPE figure has already been deducted from your State Pension forcast.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Apr 18, 4:22 PM
    • 8,977 Posts
    • 9,863 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12143174/Four-million-people-retiring-from-April-could-get-the-wrong-state-pension.html

    From what this article is saying, among other things, is that you deduct the C.O.P.E figure from your state pension forecast. You can then buy NI years to top up your state pension to the full £159/ week.
    Originally posted by paulus6
    That article is astonishingly badly written. Its wrong as written or at least implied. But it is in the Telegraph so nothing unusual there. Indeed most newspaper articles about anything are wrong.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 9th Apr 18, 7:42 PM
    • 2,524 Posts
    • 3,475 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    !!!8220; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/12143174/Four-million-people-retiring-from-April-could-get-the-wrong-state-pension.html

    From what this article is saying, among other things, is that you deduct the C.O.P.E figure from your state pension forecast. You can then buy NI years to top up your state pension to the full £159/ week.
    Originally posted by paulus6
    Cobblers. As Joe says, a very badly written article. There's no set formula for everyone - you have to look at each case individually.

    In Mr S's case, he retired at 58 and is due to get his State pension this May. He won't get the full £159 per week (he never expected that) but he couldn't have benefitted by buying any 'extra' years.

    Why? Because he had been contracted out since 1978 and so his foundation amount as at April 2016 was based on his entitlement under the old pension scheme. Paying the 'missing' NI years from 2011 to 2015/2016 wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever. He then received 'free' NI credits for 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 as he reached pension credit age at 63+.

    His COPE of £100 per week is already being paid as part of his Armed Forces pension.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 9th Apr 18, 10:44 PM
    • 25,130 Posts
    • 14,803 Thanks
    xylophone
    See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447195/new-state-pension--effect-of-being-contracted-out.pdf

    The figures used in above were estimates.

    The BSP 2016-17 was £119.30

    The NSP 2016-17 was £155.65.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 9th Apr 18, 10:50 PM
    • 25,130 Posts
    • 14,803 Thanks
    xylophone
    Note than in the above link the COPE is referred to as Rebate Derived Amount.
    • zolablue25
    • By zolablue25 10th Apr 18, 10:37 AM
    • 1,575 Posts
    • 457 Thanks
    zolablue25
    See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447195/new-state-pension--effect-of-being-contracted-out.pdf

    The figures used in above were estimates.

    The BSP 2016-17 was £119.30

    The NSP 2016-17 was £155.65.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Thanks for the link. Didn't understand a word of it, but appreciate the effort.
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