Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • andycrystal
    • By andycrystal 18th May 17, 8:53 AM
    • 7Posts
    • 0Thanks
    andycrystal
    Mortgage Offer, yet to Exchange, now partner losing job
    • #1
    • 18th May 17, 8:53 AM
    Mortgage Offer, yet to Exchange, now partner losing job 18th May 17 at 8:53 AM
    Hi there,

    Hoping this forum can provide me with some advice....I know there are lots of topics on this sort of thing already so apologies for another one however feel this case is quite a bit different. See below current position;

    - Mortgage Offer received following the lender (Halifax) reviewing and being satisfied of Feb, March & April's payslips and statements of mine and my partners. Valuation on property done
    - House is progressing, vendors are buying a property without a chain and they are cash buyers (no mortgage)
    - Hope to complete by end of June
    - Partner has yesterday received news that she will lose her job at the end of June but she is trying to negotiate this to allow her another month (end of July) due to us currently being in process of buying a house
    - partner intends to be employed with new firm either at the start of july or start of august

    Questions and concerns?

    - shall we make our mortgage advisor aware or will he say he needs to flag this up?
    - Will the lender make any more checks between now and completion? if so, what are they chances?
    - how probable is it for the lender to make checks of employment between exchange and completion?
    - what happens if the lender withdraws between exchange and completion? can i apply for a mortgage with a new person for the same property should my partner be still out of work?
    - if she is in work and they withdraw between exchange and completion, can we get another mortgage easily?

    Would people just keep quiet at this stage?

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 18th May 17, 9:16 AM
    • 1,944 Posts
    • 2,724 Thanks
    tykesi
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 9:16 AM
    • #2
    • 18th May 17, 9:16 AM
    Keeping quiet could also be known as mortgage fraud. It will be a condition of your offer that any negative impacts on income must be declared, by not doing so, not getting the mortgage could be the least of your worries.
    • Trickzyy
    • By Trickzyy 18th May 17, 9:19 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Trickzyy
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 9:19 AM
    • #3
    • 18th May 17, 9:19 AM
    Hi Andy,

    I hope I can help answer some of your points.

    Different people would approach this situation in different ways, some would tell their broker, some wouldn't. IMHO, I would tell the broker so they can let the lender know as this would technically be mortgage fraud.

    A mortgage is a huge commitment and although you may have found your ideal home, if you don't tell your lender and your girlfriend starts a new job and it doesn't work out and you can't keep up the mortgage payments, that home will be repossessed.

    Lenders typically do not check employment again once all the initial checks have been completed and the mortgage offered.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • andycrystal
    • By andycrystal 18th May 17, 9:29 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andycrystal
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 9:29 AM
    • #4
    • 18th May 17, 9:29 AM
    Hi Andy,

    I hope I can help answer some of your points.

    Different people would approach this situation in different ways, some would tell their broker, some wouldn't. IMHO, I would tell the broker so they can let the lender know as this would technically be mortgage fraud.

    A mortgage is a huge commitment and although you may have found your ideal home, if you don't tell your lender and your girlfriend starts a new job and it doesn't work out and you can't keep up the mortgage payments, that home will be repossessed.

    Lenders typically do not check employment again once all the initial checks have been completed and the mortgage offered.
    Originally posted by Trickzyy
    Thanks Trickzyy - there isn't any chance we won't be able to make the mortgage repayments; its just that we wouldn't have been able to borrow enough without her salary however obviously at the time of offer and still currently, she has this income. (Plus self employed income that we couldn't put towards the figures due to not having 2yrs of accounts)

    are you saying if she starts a new job then it is ok not to let the lender know at this stage?

    have you ever heard of them checking employment after exchange or is this extremely rare?
    • andycrystal
    • By andycrystal 18th May 17, 9:30 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andycrystal
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 9:30 AM
    • #5
    • 18th May 17, 9:30 AM
    Keeping quiet could also be known as mortgage fraud. It will be a condition of your offer that any negative impacts on income must be declared, by not doing so, not getting the mortgage could be the least of your worries.
    Originally posted by tykesi
    she will get a job so there wouldnt be any negative impact so things will only be same if not improve - still ok not to declare at this stage?
    • Trickzyy
    • By Trickzyy 18th May 17, 10:07 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Trickzyy
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 10:07 AM
    • #6
    • 18th May 17, 10:07 AM
    are you saying if she starts a new job then it is ok not to let the lender know at this stage?
    Originally posted by andycrystal
    No, that is certainly not what I am saying, quite the opposite actually. The lender would want to know as they would reassess affordability, and want to know several other details about the new job.

    have you ever heard of them checking employment after exchange or is this extremely rare?
    Originally posted by andycrystal
    It would be rare, as part of the terms of the mortgage offer would be for YOU to let them know if there are any changes in circumstances.

    Ultimately, you can choose to do what makes you feel most comfortable, I am just trying to help with the facts.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • andycrystal
    • By andycrystal 18th May 17, 10:09 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andycrystal
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 10:09 AM
    • #7
    • 18th May 17, 10:09 AM

    Ultimately, you can choose to do what makes you feel most comfortable, I am just trying to help with the facts.
    Originally posted by Trickzyy
    I really appreciate it, thanks.

    In your experience; what are the chances out of 100 would they come back and check employment status again?
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 18th May 17, 10:51 AM
    • 1,944 Posts
    • 2,724 Thanks
    tykesi
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 10:51 AM
    • #8
    • 18th May 17, 10:51 AM
    I really appreciate it, thanks.

    In your experience; what are the chances out of 100 would they come back and check employment status again?
    Originally posted by andycrystal
    I think the phrase
    I am just trying to help with the facts.
    Originally posted by Trickzyy
    Suggests the poster doesn't want to help or advise you to commit mortgage fraud.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 18th May 17, 11:01 AM
    • 7,641 Posts
    • 7,773 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 11:01 AM
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 11:01 AM
    In your experience; what are the chances out of 100 would they come back and check employment status again?
    Originally posted by andycrystal
    Or to put it another way, "I am considering committing mortgage fraud, would all of you mortgage brokers and lawyers please advise me what my chances are of being caught"?
    • Loft Boy
    • By Loft Boy 18th May 17, 11:52 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    Loft Boy
    I am.speaking from personal experience

    A few years ago my wife and I were in the process of buying a house we had just had our first child ( had our offer accepted while we were still in hospital day after the birth. Pretty great 24 hours!

    On my return to work my new boss told.me.i.was.being put.on a pip having been there 5 years and always got.good ratings this was a shock the pip was for 12 weeks. At this point we didnt declare anything as nothing had changed and I.just thought it was someone trying.to.flex their.new managerial.muscle.


    I jump through hoops for 12 weeks all.good have a.meeting and am.told.it will be going to disciplinary and I.could be sacked. At this point I realise I.am.in a no.win situation thing is.i.knew it was a load of.rubbish and after.finding.out.that the supposed.complainants hadn't.made.complaints ( I had their.testimony on email I filed.a.grievance with Hr.

    Long story short they offered.me a lot.of.money to.go.and not go through with the grievance but.my exit.date.would have been before.completion so through various ways I dragged it.out and left.on the day of.completion

    Left work.and went to.my.new house. Do.i regret.doing it.-no
    Was it stressful - Absolutely new baby going to a place of work and having to be Nic to.someone.you would.love to throw.off a bridge and worrying about possible.loss.of.deposit etc I don't think.i.slept.properly.for.about 3 months.

    People.can.advise.you.of.rights.and.wrongs.but.som etimes.life.isnt black and white.but.if goes wrong you.will.have.to carry the can
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 18th May 17, 12:06 PM
    • 1,944 Posts
    • 2,724 Thanks
    tykesi
    I am.speaking from personal experience

    A few years ago my wife and I were in the process of buying a house we had just had our first child ( had our offer accepted while we were still in hospital day after the birth. Pretty great 24 hours!

    On my return to work my new boss told.me.i.was.being put.on a pip having been there 5 years and always got.good ratings this was a shock the pip was for 12 weeks. At this point we didnt declare anything as nothing had changed and I.just thought it was someone trying.to.flex their.new managerial.muscle.


    I jump through hoops for 12 weeks all.good have a.meeting and am.told.it will be going to disciplinary and I.could be sacked. At this point I realise I.am.in a no.win situation thing is.i.knew it was a load of.rubbish and after.finding.out.that the supposed.complainants hadn't.made.complaints ( I had their.testimony on email I filed.a.grievance with Hr.

    Long story short they offered.me a lot.of.money to.go.and not go through with the grievance but.my exit.date.would have been before.completion so through various ways I dragged it.out and left.on the day of.completion

    Left work.and went to.my.new house. Do.i regret.doing it.-no
    Was it stressful - Absolutely new baby going to a place of work and having to be Nic to.someone.you would.love to throw.off a bridge and worrying about possible.loss.of.deposit etc I don't think.i.slept.properly.for.about 3 months.

    People.can.advise.you.of.rights.and.wrongs.but.som etimes.life.isnt black and white.but.if goes wrong you.will.have.to carry the can
    Originally posted by Loft Boy
    That's a lot of full stops
    • zx81
    • By zx81 18th May 17, 12:44 PM
    • 16,803 Posts
    • 17,813 Thanks
    zx81
    Full stops everywhere except at the end.
    • andycrystal
    • By andycrystal 18th May 17, 2:42 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andycrystal
    Or to put it another way, "I am considering committing mortgage fraud, would all of you mortgage brokers and lawyers please advise me what my chances are of being caught"?
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    Yes, basically. People on this forum must know how likely it is to be found out or not? Would anyone in the field be able to share?

    Anyway, we are now intending to tell our broker once she has found new employment and before exchange of the contract. We will say that she is being made redundant and that she will be starting a new job after her current one finishes - assume that will be ok?

    She should secure a job within a week or so

    Thanks!
    • DarriHui
    • By DarriHui 21st Dec 17, 12:15 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    DarriHui
    Do you have an update OP? What happened next?
    • andycrystal
    • By andycrystal 21st Dec 17, 12:18 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    andycrystal
    Was absolutely fine. I actually sought advice from my mortgage advisor (independent from lender) as i couldn't sleep at night with worry and his words were 'lets pretend we never had this conversation'.
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 21st Dec 17, 6:37 PM
    • 1,084 Posts
    • 556 Thanks
    Ganga
    Was absolutely fine. I actually sought advice from my mortgage advisor (independent from lender) as i couldn't sleep at night with worry and his words were 'lets pretend we never had this conversation'.
    Originally posted by andycrystal
    So two of you were willing to comit morgage fraud?
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • minimike2
    • By minimike2 21st Dec 17, 7:11 PM
    • 1,951 Posts
    • 1,480 Thanks
    minimike2
    Wow. Mortgage broker willing to put a client at financial risk and commit fraud, as were you and your partner.
    I am a mortgage industry professional. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 21st Dec 17, 7:18 PM
    • 5,248 Posts
    • 4,445 Thanks
    glentoran99
    Wow. Mortgage broker willing to put a client at financial risk and commit fraud, as were you and your partner.
    Originally posted by minimike2


    wheres the financial risk? the OP already stated they could afford the mortgage with or without the partners wage? The had income that for one reason or another the mortgage lender wouldn't consider
    • minimike2
    • By minimike2 21st Dec 17, 7:38 PM
    • 1,951 Posts
    • 1,480 Thanks
    minimike2
    In my years of experience, people will say anything about what they can "afford" when it comes to the emotional purchase of a property.

    The lender wouldn't have lent they amount they did without the income of the partner. There is a reason lenders have affordability assessments.

    Regardless of what you think, the FACT here and that is that the OP failed to inform the lender of a material change and therefore obtained the mortgage by deception.
    I am a mortgage industry professional. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice
    • Mortgage_Adviser
    • By Mortgage_Adviser 22nd Dec 17, 9:49 AM
    • 125 Posts
    • 46 Thanks
    Mortgage_Adviser
    There is a reason lenders have affordability assessments.
    Originally posted by minimike2
    This is not always black and white. The lenders affordability assessment doesn't necessary reflects the clients actual financial situation.

    I had to do a mortgage for the couple recently where I had to recommend the mortgage term up to 80 yo. The reason for this was that as Mr has only been in his job for a few months and before that had a long employment gap due to redundancy from previous job. This meant that the lender would ignore Mr's salary and would regard him as earning nothing.
    In my opinion the criteria like that is unreasonable and does not reflects clients current situation.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

188Posts Today

1,514Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • It's the start of mini MSE's half term. In order to be the best daddy possible, Im stopping work and going off line? https://t.co/kwjvtd75YU

  • RT @shellsince1982: @MartinSLewis thanx to your email I have just saved myself £222 by taking a SIM only deal for £7.50 a month and keeping?

  • Today's Friday twitter poll: An important question, building on yesterday's important discussions: Which is the best bit of the pizza...

  • Follow Martin