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  • FIRST POST
    • Danknott15
    • By Danknott15 17th May 17, 11:48 AM
    • 9Posts
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    Danknott15
    Vanquish debt prior to legal action letter
    • #1
    • 17th May 17, 11:48 AM
    Vanquish debt prior to legal action letter 17th May 17 at 11:48 AM
    Good morning, I've been a long time admirer of this forum and used its advice but I now need personal help. I received a parking notice in August for parking slightly over the white line whilst in Blackpool. Once the letter came through I read up about it online and that you shoulf ignore all letters until court papers arrive.
    I'm now at the stage where vanquish debt have sent me a letter today that is titled 'Prior to legal action'. What do I do? I don't want this going to court, am I best just to pay the fine?
Page 1
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 17th May 17, 12:00 PM
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    tykesi
    • #2
    • 17th May 17, 12:00 PM
    • #2
    • 17th May 17, 12:00 PM
    So you say you admire the forum but don't pay any attention to the advice given on it - weird!

    You ned to read the 'NEWBIES' sticky post at the top of the parking board, figure out which stage you are at and start following the advice. If you have any specific questions you can use this thread to ask them.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 17th May 17, 12:09 PM
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    pappa golf
    • #3
    • 17th May 17, 12:09 PM
    • #3
    • 17th May 17, 12:09 PM
    do a quick search on vanquis and the parking Co , notice any links? https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08302179/officers
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Grimble
    • By Grimble 17th May 17, 12:09 PM
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    Grimble
    • #4
    • 17th May 17, 12:09 PM
    • #4
    • 17th May 17, 12:09 PM
    Vanquish are the same firm as the PPC, advice is to ignore all debt collectors.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 17, 10:00 PM
    • 57,471 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 17th May 17, 10:00 PM
    • #5
    • 17th May 17, 10:00 PM
    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Parking_Awareness_Services.html

    Ignore debt collectors - but come back if the parking firm try a claim. Defendable, and we win.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Danknott15
    • By Danknott15 1st Feb 18, 7:03 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    Danknott15
    • #6
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:03 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:03 PM
    Hello, just read these replies (very late I know), ignored the correspondence as above but now received a final letter before court claim. Can somebody advice what to do? Are they taking me to court?

    Any help very much appreciated.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Feb 18, 7:04 PM
    • 57,471 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:04 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:04 PM
    Have you read the NEWBIES thread post #2 about replying to a LBCCC? Do that first.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Feb 18, 7:10 PM
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    pappa golf
    • #8
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:10 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:10 PM
    Hello, just read these replies (very late I know), ignored the correspondence as above but now received a final letter before court claim. Can somebody advice what to do? Are they taking me to court?

    Any help very much appreciated.
    Originally posted by Danknott15
    who is the letter from?
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Danknott15
    • By Danknott15 1st Feb 18, 7:23 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    Danknott15
    • #9
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:23 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Feb 18, 7:23 PM
    Letter is from a company called debt logic which I've seen is another trading name for Vanquish debt recoveries.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 1st Feb 18, 7:29 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    Does it say will or will advise? Does it comply with the new pap for debt claims?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Feb 18, 7:35 PM
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    pappa golf
    ok , you may have read that debt collectors cannot take a person to court , only the parking co or solisitors paid for by the parking Co

    you are on the mark with "same company"

    check out address for parking awareness

    27 Old Gloucester Street London WC1N 3AX
    and the track https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07754738/filing-history

    debt logic 27 Old Gloucester Street London WC1N 3AX
    and the track
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10598769


    and lets not forget vanquish
    27 Old Gloucester Street, London, England, WC1N 3AX
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08302179


    oh what a tangled web of deceit

    his has been booted from that car park I heard

    do nothing but smile
    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Parking_Awareness_Services.html
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Feb 18, 7:41 PM
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    pappa golf
    all done on his little computer from his shed in pilling , the address for all 3 companies is a mail box type , postman must be busy as there are 24,457 companies listed there

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/search/companies?q=27%20Old%20Gloucester%20Street,%20Lond on,%20England,%20WC1N%203AX
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Danknott15
    • By Danknott15 1st Feb 18, 8:12 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Danknott15
    Apologise for the long reply but being a new user I can't post links. I've copied what was in the email/letter as unsure whether to ignore as above or reply with help from the newbie section.


    Dear ,

    As all our previous attempts have failed it is with great disappointment that we are recommending our client proceed with County Court action. As the balance remains unpaid we write to you, the driver of the vehicle to advise that if payment is not received in 14 days no further correspondence will be sent. The next letter you will receive will be court proceedings.

    In compliance with Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct we hereby confirm the details of the debt:

    Reason for Claim: Unpaid Parking Charge Notice
    Issued to Vehicle: - VW golf Silver
    Contravention Date/ Time:
    Site Address: Crystal Road Car Park Blackpool
    Total Cost Claimed: £205.00, which is the unpaid Parking Charge Notice and our Debt Recovery fee.
    All documents our client relies on in court are available on request, should you require copies for your defence. The current outstanding balance may increase once your debt is passed to our litigation specialist once they have applied for a Judgement, the following will apply:

    £25-35 Application Fee
    £50-60 Solicitors Costs on issuing the Claim
    £22 if you fail to acknowledge, or £25 where you acknowledge but do not provide a defence
    £25 Hearing Fee
    8% Interest per annum
    I refer you to the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules, and in particular to paragraph 4 which sets out the sanctions the court may impose if you fail to comply with the Practice Direction. If payment or adequate response is not received by 15 February 2018, our client reserves the right to commence legal proceedings to recover the debt without further notice from you and this letter may be tendered in court as evidence.



    Yours sincerely



    Pre-Litigation Manager
    Last edited by Danknott15; 11-02-2018 at 3:59 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Feb 18, 8:16 PM
    • 7,209 Posts
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    KeithP
    You would be wise to remove your vehicle registration number from that post.

    Pity they don't comply with all the Pre-action Protocols by only offering 14 days notice rather than 30 days notice.

    I think I would robustly reply as if that letter really was a Letter of Claim. To me it certainly looks like a (very poor) attempt at a Letter of Claim.
    Last edited by KeithP; 01-02-2018 at 8:22 PM.
    .
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Feb 18, 8:18 PM
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    pappa golf
    luv , the add ons

    £25-35 Application Fee
    £50-60 Solicitors Costs on issuing the Claim
    £22 if you fail to acknowledge, or £25 where you acknowledge but do not provide a defence

    ps that paperwork is supposed to be sent along with a letter signed by the parking Co or there solisitors , not a debt collection Co

    I cant think of the correct responce to post on here (red card time) , however await other people who have not had early warnings to post

    but I am adament that the DEBT collector cannot send that paperwork
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Feb 18, 8:19 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    So point out the new PAP to them.

    They've not followed it themselves, have only given you a fortnight to reply (wrong) yet they are pointing you to the rules they have not followed!

    I refer you to the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules
    You could have fun replying pointing them back at the correct procedure which changed in October. Search the forum for 'solicitors immune' but you will have to change the standard letter you find (used umpteen times!) to remove reference to them as solicitors, because they are not.

    Show us your version of the usual letter you find when searching for those 2 words. No links given.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Feb 18, 8:23 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,307 Thanks
    pappa golf
    can the debt collector send the PAP BEFORE passing it back?
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Feb 18, 8:31 PM
    • 57,471 Posts
    • 71,054 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They won't have a clue what the reply forms even are!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Danknott15
    • By Danknott15 1st Feb 18, 8:37 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Danknott15
    Right reached the forum for the "solicitors immune" letter and think I've found it?

    Dear Sirs,


    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 26th September 2017.
    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.


    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.


    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.


    As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.


    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.
    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 !!!8220;establishing yourself as the creditor!!!8221;
    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Is that it?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Feb 18, 8:43 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,307 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Right reached the forum for the "solicitors immune" letter and think I've found it?

    Dear Sirs,


    I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 26th September 2017.
    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.


    Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.


    Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.


    As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.


    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.
    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
    1. an explanation of the cause of action
    2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
    5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
    6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
    7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
    11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Is that it?
    Originally posted by Danknott15
    umm , but does all that apply to debt collectors , they are not under any legal obligations to fallow the PAP code

    this is for the parking co or its solisitors
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
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