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  • FIRST POST
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 16th May 17, 5:42 PM
    • 87Posts
    • 39Thanks
    kayjones83
    Fine from Civil Enforcment **HELP**
    • #1
    • 16th May 17, 5:42 PM
    Fine from Civil Enforcment **HELP** 16th May 17 at 5:42 PM
    Hi all,



    Is this a legit company?


    Address-Civil Enforcement Ltd Horton House Exchange flags. Liverpool L2 3PF.

    I received PCN letter on the 22nd March from stating that I failed to pay & display a parking ticket. I wrote an appeal letter along with proof of purchase of the parking ticket.
    I had not heard back from the till yesterday of which I received a final warning letter stating that I have to pay 100.
    I managed to get through to the company via phone and the lady stated that they had responded to my appeal via post stating the reason for the fine was because I did not put my registration details into the machine. Just to add, I did not receive that letter. How convenient!


    I clearly remember putting in my details , plus the machine would not have issued me a ticket if I hadn't of done so.


    I've been doing a lot of research on these dodgy companies and I noticed that forums have advised people not to respond. Should I have done?


    What should I do now? :S


    HELP!
    Last edited by kayjones83; 16-05-2017 at 5:47 PM.
Page 6
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 11th Jun 18, 6:56 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Ok thanks KeithP!
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 6th Aug 18, 12:29 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Hi all,


    So I have received a court date for September.


    Can I confirm the following:


    1. I have to send over my statement with evidence to the court assigned and the Claimant no later than 14 days prior to court hearing?


    2. My argument will be that there was an error with the payment machine because my registration number was printed incorrectly after having entered them it in correctly. Is there anything that I could mentioned that could help with my argument?


    3. Will I be able to request a refund for my travel as well as 95 for lost earnings if I win the case?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 6th Aug 18, 12:48 PM
    • 20,523 Posts
    • 32,440 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    3. Will I be able to request a refund for my travel as well as 95 for lost earnings if I win the case?
    Actual cost of transport if using public transport or 45p per mile if driving. Plus your car parking charges for the day.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 06-08-2018 at 2:40 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Aug 18, 1:00 PM
    • 10,963 Posts
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    The Deep
    You should consider asking the judge for exemplary damages due to theur unreasonable behaviour. If you have supplied proof of payent, and they have nevertheless wasted your time, then, in my opinion, they have behaved unreasonably and wasted the Court's time.

    Judges are often reluctant to award such costs, but if you do not ask !!!8230;

    Google CPR 27.14(2)(g)
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 14th Aug 18, 9:03 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Apologies for my late reply and thank you for your advice.
    In regards to sending over my supporting evidence-is it 14 working days or just 14 days?
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 14th Aug 18, 9:29 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    I'm unable to include a witness statement as it was only me and my younger niece in the vehicle at the time.
    Would it be ok to send a brief summary about my case along with supporting evidence?
    Is it worth including any legal points?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Aug 18, 9:34 AM
    • 10,963 Posts
    • 10,927 Thanks
    The Deep
    Judges are often reluctant to award such costs, but if you do not ask !!!8230;


    Why do I see !!!8230? I did not type it, I am using a proper lap top.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 14th Aug 18, 9:36 AM
    • 20,523 Posts
    • 32,440 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I'm unable to include a witness statement as it was only me and my younger niece in the vehicle at the time.
    Would it be ok to send a brief summary about my case along with supporting evidence?
    Is it worth including any legal points?
    Originally posted by kayjones83
    In almost all private parking company court cases there's only ever one witness - that's the Defendant (so you).
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 14th Aug 18, 9:48 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    *Covers face*
    @Umkomaas thank you!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Aug 18, 9:51 AM
    • 37,988 Posts
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    Quentin
    In regards to sending over my supporting evidence-is it 14 working days or just 14 days?
    Originally posted by kayjones83
    The latter.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Aug 18, 7:13 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,458 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    So I have received a court date for September.
    Let's see your WS and evidence then.

    Examples are in the NEWBIES thread second post, where bargepole already tells you in a 'what happens when' linked thread, that YOU are the witness. If you had re-read that thread you would have known that and would have seen how to write it.

    There are several WS examples there too and a short list of possible evidence.
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 17th Aug 18, 10:05 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Morning all,


    Please see below my witness statement:


    In the County Court at XXXXX
    Claim No. XXXXXXXX
    Between
    Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)
    and
    Sally6588 (Defendant)


    1. I am Sally6588, of [Address], [Postcode], the Defendant in this matter. I will say as follows:

    2. On 12th March 2017 I visited the Bargain Book Time store, and parked my vehicle registration no,..........in the car park.

    3. Upon receipt of a parking charge notice from the Claimant, I supplied them with this evidence, however they have elected to pursue this matter via litigation.

    6. It is my position that, under the doctrine of promissory estoppel, the Claimant has no standing, or cause of action, to litigate in this matter.

    7. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing, such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.




    Statement of Truth

    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

    Signature
    Date
    Last edited by kayjones83; 17-08-2018 at 11:56 AM.
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 17th Aug 18, 10:42 AM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Should I also add this to the statement?


    Supporting Evidence attached.


    • Proof of car ticket payment
    • Copies of all letters and email correspondence
    • Defence letter
    • Letters received from Civil Enforcement Ltd, ZZPS and QDR solicitors.
    • Receipts (Postage and Bargain Book time purchase)
    • Copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Aug 18, 11:43 AM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 4,987 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You do not include your defence. They have that already

    Given youve identified the driver, why would you be relying on POFA? Or did you not mean to tell us who drove that day, and incidentally the whole world including the PPC?

    Why are you making arguments in your WS? This is a place for facts.
    Why are you reliant on promoisspory estoppel? You have proof of car payment, apparently. Yet you havent stated so in your WS - at all.

    A WS doesnt ask the court to dismiss the claim.
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 17th Aug 18, 12:26 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    I've made a few changes:




    In the County Court at XXXXX
    Claim No. XXXXXXXX
    Between
    Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)
    and
    !!!8230;!!!8230;!!!8230;!!!8230;.(Defendant)



    1. I am !!!8230;!!!8230;.. of [Address], [Postcode], the Defendant in this matter. I will say as follows:


    2. On 12th March 2017 I visited the Bargain Book Time store, and parked my vehicle registration no XXXXX in the car park.


    3. I paid for a pay and display ticket of which I have proof. The keypad appears to have been faulty because it is highly unlikely that I made an error entering my VRN and more likely that the keys on the old, worn PDT machine were faded or sticky. The parking operator would easily be able to match up the correct VRN when carrying out the manual checks that the BPA requires of any ANPR operator before enforcing an unfair PCN for such a trifling issue.


    4. Upon receipt of a parking charge notice from the Claimant, I supplied them with this evidence; however they have elected to pursue this matter via litigation.


    Statement of Truth

    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

    Signature
    Date
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 17th Aug 18, 12:27 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Supporting Evidence attached.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Aug 18, 2:19 PM
    • 4,114 Posts
    • 4,987 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    As you will have seen from every single WS, your WS has to reference the documents directly.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Aug 18, 2:34 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,458 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I'd also adduce Jolley v Carmel and talk about the 'reasonable endeavours' made to comply with the terms, like here:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74394556#post74394556

    That one also shows you that the evidence need to be referred to by number. All pages would then be numbered as well, and then create a quick contents page and pop it into a ring binder file so the Judge's version is very readable.

    CEL can have a pile of emails...

    Jolley v Carmel is discussed here by the BMPA:

    https://padi.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000857125-Jolley-v-Carmel-Limited-2000-
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 17th Aug 18, 3:32 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Thanks all!
    Will have a look and make the necessary changes.
    • kayjones83
    • By kayjones83 19th Aug 18, 5:33 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    kayjones83
    Afternoon all,

    Please do let me know if the below is ok and if there is anything I should add or remove:


    Witness Statement of [Name]

    I, [Name], of [Address] WILL SAY AS FOLLOWS:

    1. I am the Defendant in this matter. I am an unrepresented consumer who is not experienced at attending county court. In this statement, I will refer to clearly labelled exhibits which appear in this bundle.

    Parking Events

    2. On the [Date] I parked my [Car], registered number [Reg] on land xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx walked to the nearest pay and display machine, purchased a ticket for the day and I displayed it on the dashboard of my car. I am careful with parking tickets to ensure they are displayed correctly. I retained the ticket that I had "paid and displayed" (in good faith) as evidence, if required in the future (Exhibit 1).

    3. My reason for parking in the car park was so that I could go into a book shop. I have produced a receipt for the item purchased (Exhibit 2).

    Communications with the Claimant

    4. In a response, on the 31st March 2017 (Exhibit 3), I provided a copy of the ticket displayed on the day providing the Claimant with clear evidence that the Driver acted in good faith and made all reasonable endeavours to comply with the terms .This was sent via email to the email address provided on the PCN Letter office@ce-service.co.uk (Exhibit 4), requesting information in order to make an informed decision about how to respond or appeal.

    5. Having not heard anything, I sent another copy via post on the 10th April 2017 with photographic evidence of ,y pay and display ticket- I have somehow lost the evidence for this however, I do have proof of postage (Exhibit 5)

    6. On 15th May 2017, I received a (Final Reminder Before Legal Action) letter, reaffirming the Claimant's claim (Exhibit 6). The purported debt was now 100. The Claimant failed to acknowledge or answer any of the specific points I raised in my previous response.

    7. On 16th May 2017 I called and spoke to a lady named Christina who told me that a response was sent out to me 7th April 2017 of which I did not receive. She then said a copy of the letter will be sent to me (Exhibit 7-received a week later), the claimant still had not addressed the specific points I had raised.

    8. On 12th June 2017 I received a !!!8216;Cessation of Correspondence!!!8217; letter, stating that they cannot continue corresponding with me (Exhibit 8).

    9.I received a Letter Before Action!!!8217; dated 24th July (Exhibit 9) The outstanding debt is now 140 at this point. In a response, a letter was sent to them on the 2nd August 2018 on the 31st March 2017 (Exhibit 10), I provided a copy of the ticket displayed on the day

    10. Between the 26th September 2017 and 5th January 2018 I received three Debt Collection Letters (Exhibit 11 ,12 and 13) and one Letter of Claim (Exhibit 14). The purported debt in these letters increased to 140 and then to 236. I did not respond to these letters since they held no basis for action, and the Claimant had demonstrated that they did not respond to any points that I raised in previous communications. These letters included demands with increased amounts owing with no explanation for the increased amounts and these letters threatened me with further debt recovery. No figure for additional charges was agreed, or communicated to me, nor could it have formed part of the !!!8216;alleged!!!8217; contract because no such indemnity costs were quantified on the Claimant!!!8217;s signs. Terms cannot be bolted on later with figures plucked out of thin air, as if they were incorporated into the small print, when they were not.

    11. After a gap of 3 months, I received a Claim from the Claimant (Exhibit 15). The purported debt had now increased to 331.69.

    12. I then received a Claim Form letter dated 17th April 2018 (Exhibit 16). The Particulars of Claim set out in the Claim Form do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies what the terms of the alleged contract were, or how they were breached. The Particulars are not !!!8220;clear and concise!!!8221; as is required by CPR 16.4 1(a). There is no information regarding why the charge arose, what the original charge was, what the alleged contract was nor anything which could be considered a fair exchange of information. It just states !!!8220;Claim for monies relating to a Parking Charge!!!8221; which does not give any indication on what basis the claim is brought. The claimant also failed to provide a copy of their written contract as per Practice Direction 16 7.3(1) and Practice Direction 7C 1.4(3A).


    Evidence of the Parking Ticket on the Dashboard


    13. The Claimant!!!8217;s evidence of a specimen sign (Contract) states !!!8220;A valid ticket must be purchased to park on this site and be displayed clearly in your front windscreen!!!8221;. This from the Claimant!!!8217;s own evidence was clearly adhered to. Any breach (which, for avoidance of doubt, is denied) was de minimis.

    14. In Jolley v Carmel Ltd [2000] 2 !!!8211;EGLR -154, it was held that a party who makes reasonable endeavours and takes reasonable steps to comply with contractual terms, should not be penalised for breach outside of their control.

    15. On the day in question I have provided evidence of my ticket, the keypad appears to have been faulty because it is highly unlikely that the I made an error entering my VRN and more likely that the keys on the old, worn PDT machine were faded or sticky . Even if I made the error , this is de minimis and a reputable parking operator would easily be able to match up the correct VRN when carrying out the manual checks that the BPA requires of any ANPR operator before enforcing an unfair PCN for a trifling issue. It is therefore not conclusive that I failed to display a parking ticket such that it was visible, and therefore the Claimant has no cause for action.

    16. The Claimant and their solicitor are known to be serial litigants and issuers of speculative claims, using !!!8220;template!!!8221; particulars of claim, with no due diligence. Research indicated they are the subject of an active investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA).

    17. At no point did the Claimant acknowledge or respond to my requests for information, nor did they acknowledge the existence of a purchased parking ticket. In fact, in exchanging court case documentation, it has become clear that the Claimant would not have upheld an appeal if a purchased parking ticket had been provided as part of an appeal.

    18. The Claimant and their solicitor have used scare tactics to "encourage" me into settling the debt as early as possible. Hence the rapid increase in the purported debt from 60 to 140 to 236. This has caused me great distress, sleepless nights and a desire for this issue to be resolved as early as possible.

    Claimant's Costs

    19. I dispute that the Claimant has incurred 50 Solicitors costs to pursue an alleged 100 debt, the costs of which are in any case not recoverable. The claimant has described the charge of 50 as !!!8216;legal representative!!!8217;s costs!!!8217; not !!!8216;contractual costs!!!8217; CPR 31.14 does not permit these to be recoverable in the Small Claims Court.

    20. The Claimant has at no time provided an explanation of how the sum claimed has been calculated, the conduct that gave rise to it or how the amount has climbed from 100 to the 236 now sought.

    21. Under Regulation 30 of the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007 (amended) A parking operator needs to have Advertising Consent for signs displayed in the car park. The only relevant Advertising Planning Consent found for the car park in question has now lapsed (Exhibit X). I therefore hold to strict proof that they have Claimant has advertising consent for signage.

    I believe that the facts stated in this statement are true.

    Signed: [Name]

    Date:
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