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  • FIRST POST
    • Plastic18
    • By Plastic18 15th May 17, 6:57 PM
    • 29Posts
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    Plastic18
    Letter before claim from solicitor
    • #1
    • 15th May 17, 6:57 PM
    Letter before claim from solicitor 15th May 17 at 6:57 PM
    Hi, I really hope someone could offer some advice. I've received 3 PCNs from September 2016 through the post in January 2017 and I have since appealed to Civil Enforcement Ltd. I then received more letters from ZZPS and when I emailed them, they said the appeal period is over and I'll have to pay up. I used one of the templates from the forum, basically asking for photographic evidence that the car was parked at the time without a 'pay and display' ticket.

    Since my own appeal, I have also completed the online forms from Private Parking Appeals Ltd, but have not heard anything back since. I have since received letter before claim from their solicitor and when I emailed the solicitor, they have requested that I confirm my name and address before they are willing to discuss my PCN via email. Should I reply the email and confirm my details?
Page 4
    • Plastic18
    • By Plastic18 3rd May 18, 5:47 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Plastic18
    Ok, thank you CouponMad! I really do appreciate your reply and support.

    And thanks, LoadsofChildren, for looking through my draft. I will amend as per advice.

    One last thing before I send the letter back, do I sign it? I gathered I should obtain proof of sending from post office and not getting registered or recorded posting. Just unsure if I sign the letter and print my name, will there be any implications? Sorry, not very good with the legal side of things.
    • Plastic18
    • By Plastic18 3rd May 18, 7:01 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Plastic18
    Loadsofchildren - are you referring to this para:

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as 20th January 2017, yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.

    Which section should I add the reference to the para numbers? Again, apologies for asking for so much help...
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd May 18, 10:49 PM
    • 61,745 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes, you always sign a formal letter.

    Dear Sirs,

    THEN A BOLD OR UNDERLINED HEADING (THEIR REFERENCE & WHAT IT'S ABOUT)
    and end it, before your signature:

    Yours faithfully
    Your postal address and date go top right, as per any letter.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 8th May 18, 10:58 AM
    • 2,355 Posts
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    Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren - are you referring to this para:

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (which continue to apply as set out in the Protocol). I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as 20th January 2017, yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.

    Which section should I add the reference to the para numbers? Again, apologies for asking for so much help...
    Originally posted by Plastic18
    Will go back and look at it
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 8th May 18, 11:10 AM
    • 2,355 Posts
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    Loadsofchildren123

    When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time. Extraordinarily, I was told by ZZPS that no such evidence would be provided and their client feels there is sufficient evidence to pursue this PCN and have maintained their instructions to recover the outstanding balance and the next course of action is to pass this to the solicitors, Wright Hassall LLP. ( Actual correspondence) As a Defendant to this claim, of course I was entitled at the pre-action phase to see what this "sufficient evidence" is so that I can evaluate the alleged claim and decide what to do about it. This is the whole point of the pre-action obligations which exist under the Civil Procedure Rules.


    You have now sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence, which I requested as long ago as of 20th January 2017. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.


    This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (and prior to October 2017 the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct which contains similar provisions), with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (and the Practice Direction which applied before October 2017) binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable (or even oblige) parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. The Protocol contains specific provisions to allow the court to sanction a party for failing to comply with it (which are clearly set out in paragraphs 13-16 of the Practice Direction).

    Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Pre-Action Protocol. Your client cannot simply refuse to provide the relevant information and maintained there is sufficient evidence to pursue the PCN. It must tell me what that "evidence" is. It must also respond to reasonable requests by me for further information designed to allow me to understand the claim and consider my position in relation to it, so that we may try to avoid court proceedings by engaging in some sort of dialogue about it.

    I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

    1. An explanation of the cause of action
    2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
    3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    4. What the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    5. A copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    6. A copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    7. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
    8. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 5.1 and 5.2(a), 5.2(b), 5.2(c) of the Pre-Action Protocol. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 8.1 and 8.2. (I hope Iíve got the correct and up-to-date version of the protocol?)

    If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction (which are part of the Protocol) . I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [was it January 2017?date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


    Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

    Yours faithfully etc.
    Originally posted by Plastic18




    Had a go at playing around with it.






    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 8th May 18, 2:38 PM
    • 1,177 Posts
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    Johnersh
    *Reaches for his violet and yellow pencils*
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 8th May 18, 4:42 PM
    • 2,355 Posts
    • 3,932 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    ha ha, that's a good demo of amending, isn't it?
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • Plastic18
    • By Plastic18 8th May 18, 7:51 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Plastic18
    Your violet and yellow pencils are very much appreciated....can't thank you enough, Loadsofchildren. And everyone else who had given their time to pitch in their advice.

    Will amend the letter and take it from there. Hope everyone's had a great bank holiday weekend.
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