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  • FIRST POST
    • scotty1971
    • By scotty1971 10th May 17, 11:27 PM
    • 1,681Posts
    • 443Thanks
    scotty1971
    Remapping a car
    • #1
    • 10th May 17, 11:27 PM
    Remapping a car 10th May 17 at 11:27 PM
    Thinking of getting my ford grand c max 1.6tdi remapped. What are the positives and negatives of doing this?

    thanks
Page 3
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 26th Jun 17, 2:29 PM
    • 3,657 Posts
    • 2,876 Thanks
    AndyPix
    I'm looking at getting my 1ltr Corsa remapped. I have been quoted 180 for a promised 14bhp and up to an 18%increase in fuel efficiency.

    Is it worth it?
    Originally posted by Jbrussel

    Welcome to MSE ..


    Is it worth it in what respect ?
    Have you read the rest of the thread ?
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 21st Oct 17, 12:32 PM
    • 10,174 Posts
    • 7,603 Thanks
    GunJack
    better off putting the 180 towards your next car...
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 21st Oct 17, 2:20 PM
    • 16,771 Posts
    • 9,946 Thanks
    motorguy
    better off putting the 180 towards your next car...
    Originally posted by GunJack
    You resurrected a 4 month old thread to say that?

    Remaps and tuning boxes can be an easy performance upgrade at a relatively low cost
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 21st Oct 17, 8:57 PM
    • 10,174 Posts
    • 7,603 Thanks
    GunJack
    You resurrected a 4 month old thread to say that?

    Remaps and tuning boxes can be an easy performance upgrade at a relatively low cost
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Oopsz...it was from a link, did't notice the date
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 22nd Oct 17, 10:23 AM
    • 3,013 Posts
    • 495 Thanks
    JustAnotherSaver
    Negatives:
    1. More stress & strain on nearly every component in the drivetrain & engine parts such as turbo etc.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    I've wondered about things like this.

    My next car may very likely be a diesel & i'd probably look at remapping.

    People tend to ignore me when i say i'd still drive it as normal. They think a remap means your foot is constantly weighted to the bottom & you're ragging the damn thing everywhere when in actual fact like had been said elsewhere in this thread, it's just useful for overtaking. My route home from work also includes a lot of hills & my current car lags bad on these.

    So if you're just driving it normally - accelerating as 'normal' as in smoothly, not mashing your foot to the floor as quickly as possible, then is that still putting any extra strain on components as mentioned in the quote?

    Or is that only when you're mashing the hell out of it?

    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 22nd Oct 17, 10:52 AM
    • 16,771 Posts
    • 9,946 Thanks
    motorguy
    I've wondered about things like this.

    My next car may very likely be a diesel & i'd probably look at remapping.

    People tend to ignore me when i say i'd still drive it as normal. They think a remap means your foot is constantly weighted to the bottom & you're ragging the damn thing everywhere when in actual fact like had been said elsewhere in this thread, it's just useful for overtaking. My route home from work also includes a lot of hills & my current car lags bad on these.

    So if you're just driving it normally - accelerating as 'normal' as in smoothly, not mashing your foot to the floor as quickly as possible, then is that still putting any extra strain on components as mentioned in the quote?

    Or is that only when you're mashing the hell out of it?
    Originally posted by JustAnotherSaver
    When you're driving it normally there'd be negligeable wear and tear differences. Even when you're driving in a spirited way, you're not doing any damage per se.

    I'd rather see a remapped car, serviced every 10,000 miles and well maintained rather than a standard car that gets serviced (often to manufacturers long life schedule) every 20,000 miles and only ever gets reactive maintenance when something breaks (and lets be honest, thats 95% of the cars out there)
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • EngineFreak
    • By EngineFreak 10th Jan 18, 4:10 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    EngineFreak
    Really good information here in this thread! I am wondering: where did you guys get your remapping files from and where can I get them safe and for a good price?
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 10th Jan 18, 5:20 PM
    • 3,766 Posts
    • 4,434 Thanks
    Johno100
    Really good information here in this thread! I am wondering: where did you guys get your remapping files from and where can I get them safe and for a good price?
    Originally posted by EngineFreak
    I'd start by looking on the owners forum(s) for your particular vehicle, that will give you an idea what others are doing and the costs involved.
    • mbwoy84
    • By mbwoy84 11th Jan 18, 12:14 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    mbwoy84
    As someone who remaps cars and has done for many years (using professional equipment in the correct manner), I'll put my unbiased view across.

    I've owned many vehicles over the years. Some I have remapped, some I haven't. If it is really worth doing, I will. If it isn't, I won't.

    Yes, it is true that for certain vehicles you can download the relevant files and using a generic OBD cable you can re-write the software on the ECU yourself. I'd never recommend that anyone does this, even if they're quite literate on such things. Manufacturers are making it more difficult for this to happen now though, and even with the correct equipment, most new vehicles since around 2012 require the ECU to be removed from the car and unlocked via a tuning bench before reprogramming.

    What are the positives to remapping? (I'm talking about a professional job here, not DIY) You get more power and torque (in basic terms) and you almost always get increased fuel economy (I guarantee at least a 10% increase on any turbo diesel car. Money back if not satisfied. in 99% of cases, turbocharged petrols should be the same too).

    Who should consider a remap? Obvious answer first. Those who want to increase the performance of their vehicle. Then, those who drive a turbo diesel or turbocharged petrol vehicle who cover high mileages. They will soon recoup the cost of the remap in their fuel savings, whilst benefiting from the increase in performance.

    What are the negatives? There are very few if your vehicle is what I would consider "ideal" for remapping. It's one of the very best pound for pound upgrades available and in some cases, as previously highlighted, it can pay for itself and then some.

    You obviously need to look at warranty implications if it's a newer vehicle. Some manufacturers/dealers will offer a tuning/remapping service. Such as Mountune for Ford. They will remap your new or nearly new car and add hardware upgrades if desired, and it will still be covered by Ford's warranty. I know of certain VW/Audi/Skoda dealerships who do the same. BMW now have a similar performance arm. Naturally, these are more expensive then your average remap, but that's understandable.

    There is an increase in wear and tear on consumable items on your vehicle. This is not as much as some people would imagine, but it is only natural that your clutch will wear more quickly with 300LB/FT of torque being put through it than with 240LB/FT of torque, which is a reasonably expected gain on some of the "ideal" vehicles that get remapped by myself. Again, this depends on how you drive the car. The clutch on the standard car will wear out more quickly if the car is driven by someone who likes full ball launches from every set of traffic lights than it would in the tuned car driven by someone sensibly. But yes, if you remap a car where the clutch is 80% worn, it is fair to expect that the clutch will wear out quicker than it would if it was left standard. Again, the margins will be fairly fine. It won't wear out all that much quicker as the car will be driven by the same driver. Then again, when someone has their car remapped, they can have a tendency to drive it a little quicker and more aggressively to begin with to enjoy the extra power or show friends what difference it has made.

    People who don't know so much do tend to believe that the extra strain on the vehicle from remapping must be too much as otherwise it would have that power to start with. This is a fair assumption from the outside, but it's a long way off the truth. There are two major reasons why this is not the case. One reason applies to all cars, the other one applies more so to certain manufacturers and higher performance vehicles. The first one is that all vehicles are set to a state of tune, which naturally has a a fairly significant performance reserve set on it. This is to compensate for different grades of fuel used in different parts of the world. Our grade of fuel is much lower than Japan, but much higher than America or parts of Eastern Europe and Asia, plus we have the option of higher octanes than the standard 95RON (petrol). Manufacturers in general can't afford to spend many many millions optimising every vehicle for every country they're being sold to. They're generally set to a standard level to be sold everywhere, so if you run your car on UK fuel or better still, higher octane UK fuel, you can safely extract more power from your vehicle. Also, manufacturers have to allow for "bad" maintenance. Obviously, manufacturers set out service intervals for a good reason, but many people don't stick to them. If the manufacturer knew that their service schedule was being stuck to religiously, they could afford to increase the power levels of their vehicles as the components would have a longer life expectancy, but the manufacturer knows that even in 5 years time when the second owner of their car is having reliability issues due to the first owner's negligence on servicing or even just the garage that serviced it being a little lax, it will still reflect negatively on the manufacturer, so they compensate on that as much as is possible from new.

    The second reason if down to performance and price differences in a manufacturers car range.

    The two best examples I have come across are the E90 BMW 335i and the E90 BMW M3. When these cars first came out, the 335i was the top of the "regular" 3-Series range and the M3 was a flagship performance car from the M-Division. There was a big difference in price and quite a big gap in performance. The M3 had a Normally Aspirated 4.0 V8, which is difficult/expensive to tune for a significant power increase. The 335i had a 3.0 Twin Turbo Straight 6, which is comparatively very cheap and easy to extract a lot more power from and could easily be tuned to produce more power than the M3. BMW could have done it, but it wouldn't be good business for them to have a "normal" 3-Series that was faster, on par, or even too close in terms of performance to its new M3.

    The second example is a more recent one and one close to me as I was the first person in the UK to work on tuning the ECU of this particular car and that's the Audi S1. A tiny car with 231BHP as standard and from a basic remap it went straight up to 301BHP and was a little pocket rocket! The only reason for Audi holding back so much power from new is that in such a small car, that would wipe the floor with its bigger, more expensive S3.

    On the flip side, I don't recommend people get their NA 1.2/1.4/1.6 Hatchbacks remapped as the power and performance and economy increase is so small, it doesn't justify it. However, it can still be used to iron out "flat spots" that these cars may have at certain points of the rev range, so if people love their own car enough to want to improve it in that little way, then that's fair enough.

    As people who know about car tuning will know. A standard car getting a remap will be a "Stage 1". if they want to go beyond this, most turbocharged cars will have a recognised "Stage 2" and "Stage 3" and then beyond that it becomes major tuning. The Stage 2 onwards will require hardware updates. IE/Uprated exhaust/Filter/Intercooler/Turbo etc etc. So any reputable person/company remapping vehicles will know the limits of the standard components and when they need upgrading.

    Again, any reputable tuner will give the vehicle a full health check before touching it and again after it has been remapped. They will also give you a warranty/satisfaction guarantee period themselves (typically 30 days).

    If a car came to me and I test drove it and there were warning lights on the dash, there were odd noises, there was an oil leak or there was play in the turbo shaft, I would not carry out any upgrades until it was rectified and the car was in fit condition to be tuned.

    As with anything, remapping is great, but it's not right for everyone or every vehicle. Just stick with a trusted professional. Amateurs will have a go at anything, but it doesn't mean that they should!
    • ess0two
    • By ess0two 11th Jan 18, 5:30 PM
    • 2,936 Posts
    • 3,820 Thanks
    ess0two
    I used a Bluefin hand held, did the job perfectly.
    Official MR B fan club,dont go............................
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Jan 18, 11:44 PM
    • 44,484 Posts
    • 52,824 Thanks
    G_M
    The golf gti comes with 230HP.
    For 1000 extra you can buy a gti 'performance' which seems to be identical other than having been 'remapped' on the production line to 245HP

    Is that correct? And if so, why not buy the cheaper one and then get it remapped for whatever that costs (500?) ?
    • mbwoy84
    • By mbwoy84 12th Jan 18, 8:19 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    mbwoy84
    Well you could get it remapped professionally and achieve a higher power gain than that for around 300, but if it!!!8217;s remapped by the manufacturer then you!!!8217;re always safe in the knowledge that there will never be a warranty issue.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 12th Jan 18, 8:37 AM
    • 14,164 Posts
    • 18,770 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    My own experience is that the promised improvement in fuel consumption never actually materialises because it is impossible to resist the temptation to use the extra power available.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain
    • PaulJWood
    • By PaulJWood 12th Jan 18, 9:36 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    PaulJWood
    I agree. Along with that, the power and car efficiency will also change
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 12th Jan 18, 9:57 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,080 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    I agree. Along with that, the power and car efficiency will also change
    Originally posted by PaulJWood
    And pollutants.

    As VW brought into stark relief, you can get a lot more power out of an engine if you are unconcerned about the impact on emissions. Note the diatribe from the remapper didn't cover that.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 12th Jan 18, 11:07 AM
    • 14,164 Posts
    • 18,770 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    And pollutants.

    As VW brought into stark relief, you can get a lot more power out of an engine if you are unconcerned about the impact on emissions. Note the diatribe from the remapper didn't cover that.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    Emissions needn't be affected. It may even be possible to reduce them.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 12th Jan 18, 12:57 PM
    • 4,282 Posts
    • 9,657 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99
    Its modern day car tuning. When i had my first car - a 1980 mini we used to do carb upgrades, induction kits, bigger bore exhausts and manifolds, etc, etc and still would only have got a few extra BHP.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    I took my Singer Chamois from 39bhp to 120bhp with carb upgrade, exhaust, camshaft, cylinder head (valves, ports etc) 124cc capacity increase (875cc to 998cc) and work on the reciporcating components to allow it to rev to 9500rpm (standard engine was only safe to 8000rpm or so from the factory).

    I'd say a threefold power increase on a naturally aspirated engine isn't bad. It only made power from 5500rpm to about 9200rpm but it did go once it was on cam
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 12th Jan 18, 3:00 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,080 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Emissions needn't be affected. It may even be possible to reduce them.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    When you can show me a printout from a tuner who checks pre- and post-tune NOx and CO2 emissions I'll be more convinced it is even considered.
    • NotSkint
    • By NotSkint 12th Jan 18, 5:10 PM
    • 74 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    NotSkint
    If you buy a 2nd hand car, how can you know if some previous owner has had it remapped? If you are unfamiliar with what performance to expect, or couldn't really tell?
    This could invalidate your insurance without you even knowing.
    And what about someone who knowingly has remapped their 2nd hand car but says they didn't do it and it was a previous owner that did it without their knowledge.
    A right insurance minefield
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 12th Jan 18, 5:57 PM
    • 14,164 Posts
    • 18,770 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    When you can show me a printout from a tuner who checks pre- and post-tune NOx and CO2 emissions I'll be more convinced it is even considered.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    I doubt they currently do. That doesn!!!8217;t mean it isn!!!8217;t possible though given suitable motivation/legislation.

    Making an engine more efficient generally reduces the CO2 output.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain
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