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  • FIRST POST
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 5th May 17, 12:12 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 3Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    PCN received well outside 14 day ANPR
    • #1
    • 5th May 17, 12:12 PM
    PCN received well outside 14 day ANPR 5th May 17 at 12:12 PM
    Received a PCN from UK parking Patrol for an alleged parking offence (albeit I wasn't PARKED at all, just stopped to let wife and kids out at airport!) on 1 April. their letter is dated 1 May 2017. Am I right in thinking that because this was an ANPR ticket, the notice to keeper has to be served not later than 14 days after the car was parked? For info, the car is a contract hire (ie leased) car and I am the registered keeper.

    If I'm right, how do i quash this?

    thanks.
Page 1
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 5th May 17, 12:28 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,311 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #2
    • 5th May 17, 12:28 PM
    • #2
    • 5th May 17, 12:28 PM
    if the car was contract hire/leased then they would have written to the name on the V5 , is the car in your name?

    make sure the hire Co know YOU are handling this , and not to pay it

    the airport land probably comes under the broad heading of "bylaws" and as such does not qualify the company to proceed to court , a more popular site is john lennon at liverpool , search on this forum and pepipoo and you will understand why they do not wont those types of cases in court
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Castle
    • By Castle 5th May 17, 12:46 PM
    • 2,180 Posts
    • 2,928 Thanks
    Castle
    • #3
    • 5th May 17, 12:46 PM
    • #3
    • 5th May 17, 12:46 PM
    Was this Newcastle Airport?
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 5th May 17, 12:51 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    • #4
    • 5th May 17, 12:51 PM
    • #4
    • 5th May 17, 12:51 PM
    yes it was
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th May 17, 1:29 PM
    • 39,142 Posts
    • 87,418 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 5th May 17, 1:29 PM
    • #5
    • 5th May 17, 1:29 PM
    Please answer the question about whose name is on the V5.

    It is imperative that you get this away from the lease company as many don't understand the difference between a speculative invoice and a penalty charge notice or a fine.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 5th May 17, 1:30 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    • #6
    • 5th May 17, 1:30 PM
    • #6
    • 5th May 17, 1:30 PM
    Yes its my name on the V5
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th May 17, 4:51 PM
    • 21,881 Posts
    • 27,487 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 5th May 17, 4:51 PM
    • #7
    • 5th May 17, 4:51 PM
    airport land is not relevant land as bylaws apply, so the POFA2012 rules are not relevant either , nor is it mandatory anyway

    the airport has 6 months to issue a penalty and use the magistrates court (like at other airports, train stations and ports)

    UKPPO are sc@mming you with a parking charge

    just use the IPC template from the newbies sticky thread, then ignore them , you wont get it !quashed" so you will be in stalemate for 6 years

    come back if you receive ANY court papers , in the next 6 months or 72 months (MCOL for the latter)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 17th May 17, 11:03 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    • #8
    • 17th May 17, 11:03 PM
    • #8
    • 17th May 17, 11:03 PM
    email response to IPC template....

    Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

    The vehicle was captured via CCTV footage unloading whilst stationary on double red lines where there is a large presence of notices stating: “No Stopping/Parking/Loading/Unloading In This Area”, see attached footage.There are signs around the entire airport complex including at the entrance that clearly state the restrictions in place. Security at the airport is paramount and any vehicle captured loading/unloading in any area other than the official car parks is immediately issued a notice by the CCTV operator.

    We are contracted by the landowner. We have a signed agreement which fully entitles us to enforce the notices issued at the site. We are under no obligation to provide you with a copy of this agreement, as it is commercially sensitive, but we will supply the IAS with a copy should you seek independent arbitration of your appeal.

    The charge is not issued under contract law and is not an attempt to recover damages for breaching a contract. The charge is an alternative to prosecution in the Magistrates Court for breaching the Airport Bye-laws. The Bye-laws also state that the Registered Keeper is liable.
    As the site is an Airport the timing on the CCTV cameras is accurate. Your point may have been valid if the site was e.g. a pay & display car park, which it is not.

    Therefore the notice was correctly incurred.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 17, 11:15 PM
    • 68,662 Posts
    • 80,906 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 17th May 17, 11:15 PM
    • #9
    • 17th May 17, 11:15 PM
    We all know that would arrive (as always) and we don't need to see bog standard IPC rejections. IPC cases are all the same.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72547051#post72547051

    Come back if they try a claim - this is all covered in NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FACTS FIRST.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 10th Nov 18, 9:18 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    ok, this has now moved on since i posted last year. Just received correspondence from BW Legal with a letter of claim, saying they are instructed to issue legal action if no response by 8 december.

    is this further bluff and bluster?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Nov 18, 9:22 PM
    • 68,662 Posts
    • 80,906 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Of course it's not bluff...I did warn you:
    Come back if they try a claim - this is all covered in NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FACTS FIRST.
    I assume you haven't just been absent entirely from the forum during the months in between and have been reading other UKPPO threads?

    Loads like this, tons of people replying to BW Legal LBCs - do read some first as it saves our typing fingers.

    UKPPO as a search term or BW Legal LBC will find you so much to read. This is where these cases are WON!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 10th Nov 18, 9:24 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    lol! ok thanks. Yes, I have been entirely absent from the forum since!

    Thanks, I'll start reading!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Nov 18, 9:27 PM
    • 22,532 Posts
    • 35,464 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    lol! ok thanks. Yes, I have been entirely absent from the forum since!

    Thanks, I'll start reading!
    Originally posted by vmc-on-top
    You've lots of catching up to do! This won't be any easier for having gone AWOL for the past 18 months. These things do not go away.

    Ignoring - at whatever stage - can be very costly.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 16th Feb 19, 10:59 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    Received claim form this morning from County Court from UK Parking Patrol (via BW legal). 248.70.

    I have to admit I have been too busy to really engage in any protracted exchange of correspondence either with BW or UKPP.

    can anyone give me some pointers as to what and where i should be looking at now? - obviously i need to respond to the claim. do I simply put a defence together for court, or engage with BW legal?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th Feb 19, 11:55 AM
    • 12,438 Posts
    • 12,577 Thanks
    The Deep
    248 is far more than the Law allows for this sort of claim. The down market solicitors whom the PPCs engage know this, but, because they are solicitors, know that a lot of people will pay up.

    It is in fact double charging and non claimable debt collectors' add ons. Imo, this is fraud, or, at the very least, improper conduct.

    Were this to get to court and they won, the judge would be unlikely to award the claimant more than 175 - 200.

    I urge you to report this grubby law firm to their regulatory body, the SRA.

    https://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/handbook/code/content.page

    as I am sure they do not condone this conduct.

    The whole industry is a scam, relying on threats of court, and the public's ignorance of the Law, A bill is currently before parliament which will regulate the scammers, many of whom are ex-clampers.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

    Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Second Reading in the Lords this month, and, with a fair wind, will l become Law later this year..

    All five readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 7-8 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • vmc-on-top
    • By vmc-on-top 16th Feb 19, 1:29 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    vmc-on-top
    Thanks for your reply. I am more than happy to report them to the SRA.

    In terms of the claim they have served, can you point me in the direction of how i should be defending / replying to it?
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 16th Feb 19, 1:49 PM
    • 1,277 Posts
    • 2,465 Thanks
    Johnersh
    The PPC won't listen to you unless you're making a payment offer at this point.

    If you paid the PCN at 60 that's obviously cheaper than the amount you could have to pay if you lose at trial. But, there's a chance (depending on the parking terms) that you can defend it entirely. That's what the forum is for.

    Now proceedings are live it's a case of in for a penny, in for a pound. I'd devote my time to acknowledging the claim and planning a quality defence.

    The claim form arrives with a response pack that tells you exactly how to acknowledge the claim. See, in particular the tick boxes "I intend to defend ALL or PART of the claim" (tick as appropriate). Do that asap as it will prevent a default judgment and it buys you more time to do the defence.

    Your defence will need to consider the terms of the contract (ie the signs). You may wish to consider:

    1. Were they visible
    2. Are they limited to parking (Luton airport, I believe, charges for drop offs too)
    3. What was the overstay
    4. Were the signs only visible when in a queue of traffic (ie. Was there really a choice to contract)

    There are good templates on the forum, but don't be afraid to excise stuff that doesn't seem relevant and to add points specific to your case. Most important, don't put in any points that you don't understand. If that sounds silly, just think that these are the same points you'll need to explain to a judge.

    Precedent templates are like fire - a good slave, but a bad master!

    Finally, bear in mind the defence is for legal points, the statement (which comes later) is the factual points - what you said & did. This point gets a little obscured in these cases because PPCs routinely serve woeful particulars of claim and try and make up for that later with witness statements referring to case law and the like.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Feb 19, 4:46 PM
    • 13,685 Posts
    • 14,955 Thanks
    KeithP
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Did it come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, or from somewhere else?
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Feb 19, 7:22 PM
    • 68,662 Posts
    • 80,906 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    can you point me in the direction of how i should be defending / replying to it?
    Originally posted by vmc-on-top
    Yep, it's all explained in the NEWBIES thread post #2, as well as how to do AOS.

    Send a pm to the other posters with the same batch of new UKPPO claims as you, and compare research:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5925855

    The last thing we want is three of you asking the same questions on 3 threads and expecting us to look one by one, and comment on 3 different defences.

    Ideally, to avoid a burden we can't manage (like with the current tedious BW Legal/Britannia batch of claims - yawwwwn...!) we need you all to simply do the same as each other and talk to each other.

    And ask us once! One draft defence version for all would be good...see that link for some pointers I just gave the others & all 3 of you need to do the AOS, as the NEWBIES thread shows you (easy).
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-02-2019 at 7:44 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Fredhugh
    • By Fredhugh 17th Feb 19, 10:55 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Fredhugh
    Hi all !

    Im your 4th person to receive a NTK while a car in my name was caught by cameras stopped in front of the Newcastle airpor Hilton barrier for 5 seconds. This took place in July 2017.

    Id like to express my thanks to the regular posters, you know who you are. Thank you for your time and expertise.

    Ive been following the forums for the past two years. Now that Ive received my county court claim from Nottingham business centre, Id like to make contact with the others involved. So that we can write a defence and tell this company where to go. Claim letter dated 15 February 2019.

    New to posting to the forum, so still finding my way. Have PMs and email contacts been exchanged? If so how can I exchange mine?

    All the best.
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