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    • Parky2017
    • By Parky2017 2nd May 17, 2:33 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Smart Parking- NtK issued
    • #1
    • 2nd May 17, 2:33 AM
    Smart Parking- NtK issued 2nd May 17 at 2:33 AM
    Hi all, as you can imagine, I'm brand-new to the forum and would be very grateful for any assistance with regard to a recent Notice to Keeper invoice from Smart Parking.

    Please go steady on me, as this is all new and uncharted territory for me. I've read and absorbed as much of the Newbies info as possible, during this brief period in which I must appeal against my Notice to Keeper.

    I've started to formulate my reply, the first rough draft of which I have included below. I'd be very grateful for any constructive criticism/tweaks/corrections etc. I have not and do not intend to name the driver. My appeal centres on grace periods, and the fact that the ANPR system captures the vehicle outside the site itself (ie: not parked).

    With thanks for your kind assistance and support.
    __________________________________________________ ___________
    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Re: PCN No.****

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.
    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    The burden of proof is on the Creditor to provide evidence of the time during which the vehicle is believed to have been parked. The Creditor has demonstrably failed to have done so. The ANPR system at this location records a vehicle in motion- not parked- and records a snapshot taken before the vehicle has even entered the site in question (as demonstrated by the roadside double yellow lines in the Entry photograph provided on the Notice to Keeper). The alleged timings are therefore hereby rejected.
    Furthermore, I require evidence from the Creditor that the camera system’s time-stamp mechanism- and that of the ticketing machine- are correct and in absolute synchronicity.

    A valid ticket was bought in good faith to cover the vehicle’s stay in the car park.
    Note that there is no mention of an expiry time on the ticket itself, merely a timestamp displaying the issued date and time (**/**/** at **:** according to the ticketing machine). I include a copy of the ticket for your reference.

    It is my understanding that certain other tickets printed on this machine actively do include an expiry time. I would therefore question the inconsistencies of its operation.

    Grace period neither adhered to by Smart Parking, nor mentioned on signage.
    A valid ticket (such as the one purchased for the vehicle for a stay of 2 hours) should allow for a grace period. If it is proven that the timestamp mechanisms on both the ticketing machines and the ANPR cameras are correct and synchronised AND that the (unprinted) expiry time of the ticket is **:**, then this is a mere 8 minutes before the alleged exit time, and not the expected 10. The alleged infringement (claimed by the Creditor on its Notice to Keeper)- based on the photographs alone- appears to be not more than a total of 15 minutes beyond the permitted stay, which includes both the entering and departing of a busy car park.

    Note that a period of time was spent circling and looking for a space on entering the car park, on account of the volume of traffic, service vehicles and pedestrians visiting a popular beach on a sunny afternoon. All of the above, plus the acts of parking up neatly, walking to the meter as a party including toddlers and pensioners, and finding the correct meter change have inevitably added to the period at the commencement of the parked period.

    Any motorist would find the above delays to be normal, expected, justifiable, and in any case not part of the period for which parking is being paid. I refer you to Parking Eye vs Hotchin in which the judge ruled that ANPR evidence only showed the vehicle’s time of entry and exit to the car park – not the time parked. Current signage in the car park only requires payment for times parked.

    I refer you to the BPA’s Approved Operator Scheme Code of Conduct v6, with which it is expected that Smart Parking Ltd abides:
    • 13 Grace periods
    • 13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
    • 13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
    • 13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
    • 13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes

    Signage failures
    The cramped and unclear wording on the signage cannot be read from a moving car, and in any case, it is clear that Smart Parking is attempting to charge for a period which includes when the vehicle is in motion. The sign states that a fee is payable for the time spent "parked".
    Furthermore, with regard to the car park's "Summer tariff", this remains open to interpretation, with no indication about when seasonal tariffs begin and end.

    I request:
    • Your Planning Permission proof from Cornwall Council for ANPR usage and for your signage.
    • Your grace periods as agreed with the BPA.
    • A copy of your Contract demonstrating your authorization to manage the site on behalf of the landlord.
    • The cancellation of this Parking Charge Notice, or failing that, a POPLA code.

    The Notice to Keeper
    I contend that the notice to Keeper is non-compliant with Schedule 4 paragraphs 8 and 9 of the PoFA which stipulate the mandatory information that must be included. If all of this information is not present then the Notice to Keeper is invalid and the condition set out in paragraph 6 of Schedule 4 has not been complied with. Failure to comply with paragraph 6 means that the registered keeper cannot be held to account for the alleged debt of the driver.
    • The period the car was parked
    • Advise that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full
    • Warn the keeper that if the parking charges remains outstanding after 28 days and the name and address of the driver has not been given, or otherwise known to the person entitled to the parking charge, that “creditor” will be entitled to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper.

    Please be advised that letters have also been sent to the following parties in order to highlight Smart Parking’s business practices:

    • The landowner
    • The Member of Parliament for the local area
    • Local businesses
Page 2
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th May 17, 9:37 PM
    • 17,607 Posts
    • 27,817 Thanks
    Isn't it good that a General Election can so concentrate minds.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Parky2017
    • By Parky2017 17th May 17, 5:47 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    It is now a full fortnight since sending my initial appeal to the PPC. I lodged my appeal within the 14 days required by the PPC and I have heard nothing at all, neither by post nor by email. I am expecting to be sent a POPLA code. Should I be concerned by the timescales here?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th May 17, 5:48 PM
    • 18,119 Posts
    • 22,906 Thanks
    no , they have 35 days to decide and respond
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Parky2017
    • By Parky2017 17th May 17, 5:52 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    no , they have 35 days to decide and respond
    Originally posted by Redx
    Thank you kindly Redx.

    Incidentally, I made sure to take multiple screenshots at every stage of my online appeal input, so that should (hopefully) stand me in good stead, should Smart Parking ever claim that they did not receive my appeal.
    Last edited by Parky2017; 17-05-2017 at 5:54 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 17, 11:44 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,073 Thanks
    They will fold, I predict!

    Smart don't like the forum template appeal. They know they will lose at POPLA anyway, as you are now a clued-up appellant.

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Parky2017
    • By Parky2017 26th May 17, 8:19 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    They will fold, I predict!

    Smart don't like the forum template appeal. They know they will lose at POPLA anyway, as you are now a clued-up appellant.

    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I can confirm that you are 100% correct!

    As you predicted, Smart Parking have today CANCELLED my PCN as a direct result of the initial template letter. There was no POPLA code provided by the PPC, nor any need for me to produce a detailed pdf rebuttal document.

    I am ecstatic at this result, and massively grateful for the invaluable guidance and support provided by members of this forum. Thank you all for your unbelievable kindness and your patience. It is truly heartening that complete strangers can come together in this way, to defeat injustice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th May 17, 11:39 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,073 Thanks

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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