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  • FIRST POST
    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 28th Apr 17, 12:22 PM
    • 36Posts
    • 33Thanks
    Doodakoff
    SCS Law letter received regarding outstanding fines. Please help!
    • #1
    • 28th Apr 17, 12:22 PM
    SCS Law letter received regarding outstanding fines. Please help! 28th Apr 17 at 12:22 PM
    Hello,

    I am posting on behalf of my partner.

    My partner works for a company which is situated on a carpark owned by Britannia Parking.

    Today (28/04/2017), she has recieved a letter from a company called SCS Law R.E Debt owed to Britannia Parking Group LTD.

    It states that my partner owes over 3,000 from unpaid fines, and unless payment is made withing 14 days, we are instructed to issue court proceedings to recover the same and any of our client legal costs, without further recourse to you.

    I am incredibly worried that there may be no way back from this due to the amount of the fines. My partner is stressed beyond belief and I am desperately trying to keep a level head.

    We are currently awaiting a move in date for our first home and the only way of payment at this time is taking it out of my deposit, which would mean we won't buy our home.

    I really, really do not know what to do and I would greatly appreciate any help offered.
    Last edited by Doodakoff; 20-10-2017 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Spelling errors
Page 5
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 4:24 PM
    • 57,436 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Good point, I ran out of steam!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 4th Feb 18, 8:46 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    I must echo KeithP - Excellent improvements Coupon-Mad, thank you so much. Thank you for your time and effort! I'm going to read up on the Parliamentary debate as it sounds interesting!
    Thank you also KeithP for the DPA suggestion, I've included it in my amendments.

    I have attempted to improve the wording of the DPA with the inclusion of KeithP's wording and have also included some wording around Principle 4 of the DPA. I hope I'm on the right track and have worded it correctly.

    I've also taken out all of the word 'fines' and changed them to ' alleged charges'

    Amended letter is below.

    Dear Sirs,

    Re: Britannia Parking Group Ltd

    I write further to your letter dated **** received ****. I note that it has taken you over 5 months to respond to my previous letter.

    The contents of your letter are noted, along with your previous claim that you have undertaken extensive investigations regarding this matter. Given that the objectionable and aggressive correspondence comes from a notorious 'robo-claim' firm of solicitors like SCS, it is clear to me that this is a disingenuous attempt at paying lip service to the Pre-Action Protocol. You have literally thrown together a pile of documents, leaving me even more confused. No doubt that was your intention, along with an aim to intimidate consumers into believing they are liable for 'fines' and 'debts' that are utterly without merit.

    It will not have escaped your attention that firms like SCS were singled out in the Parliamentary debate on Friday about the despicable private parking 'industry'. MP Stephen Doughty spoke compellingly and with vitriol about the firms that solicitors like SCS are propping up and giving a veil of legitimacy:

    ''I also want to highlight the firms of solicitors that work with those companies. We might refer to such firms as 'roboclaims' firms, and they often have a close and cosy relationship with the parking companies.

    Fundamentally, this comes down to common sense, justice and reasonableness. When things end up in court, it is an absurd situation. Roboclaims companies, which are making a massive mint off this industry, can issue a summons for just 30, and yet a defendant can sometimes have to pay as much as eight times that to defend the case, as well as having to deal with the time, emotion and everything that comes with that process.

    I wholeheartedly support the Bill proposed by the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire and very much hope it gets Royal Assent. We need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country.''


    An absolute disgrace that not a single MP in the House defended in any way at all. I fully intend to bring your conduct, your client's conduct and the will of Parliament to end this sort of harassment, to the attention of the Judge, should your client proceed.

    Your most recent letter states that it includes the totality of parking charge notices, with dates supplied for each one. In previous letters received, you have claimed that I am liable for alleged 'charges' to your client for the following dates.
    ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****, ****

    I note that these alleged !!!8216;charges!!!8217; are no longer included on the totality, and have in fact, completely vanished. I request the reason as to why, considering you have pursued this so vigorously and that previous letters have harassed me to such an extent that I have been left in a highly distressed state. Should you fail to reply on this point, I will make the reasonable assumption that these baseless charges have been cancelled.

    I also note that you have provided no explanation whatsoever in relation to the previous duplicated !!!8216;charges!!!8217; that you claim I owe to your client. I note that these too have simply vanished, again, without explanation and leaving me more confused.

    I also still require, as per my previous request and as per paragraph 3.1 of the Pre-Action Protocol:

    iii. A copy of any document your client asserts sets out the terms of the alleged contract between it and a driver (this may be the same as iv below);

    iv. You have still not provided a copy of signs on display, with times and dates these were taken, or a dated plan of there position in the car park as they were displayed. Your letter dated **** stated they these were included, however, they were not. I therefore still require a copy of the signs on display and a dated plan of where in the car park they were displayed on those dates;

    v. You have still not provided a map of boundaries within the site. Again, you stated in your previous letter that this was included, however it was not. I therefore require a map showing the boundary within the site, purportedly operated by Britannia Parking Group Ltd., as opposed to the other parking operators also operating at this location.

    As before, these are core documents, central to your client's claim. As such, they are documents which are required to have been produced at an early stage (regardless of whether or not I asked for them) in this pre-action phase, pursuant to paragraph 6 of the Practice Direction: Pre-Action Conduct and the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, in particular paragraph 3. I am still requesting these documents because I clearly require them in order to be able to prepare a proper defence to any Claim and/or a meaningful POPLA appeal, as is my entitlement. The Civil Procedure Rules clearly anticipate an early exchange of information, as per paragraph 3 of the Pre-Action Protocol and as per paragraph 3 and 6 of the Practice Direction: Pre-Action Conduct, Rule 16 and Practice Direction 16.

    Any failure to produce the information I have asked for will be nothing other than a deliberate attempt to frustrate my ability to defend the claim and a failure to comply with pre-action obligations.

    I also wish to request, once again, that the tickets I have requested not be randomly thrown together, in no order, within a package. I have yet again had to waste hours of my time going through the documents you have provided which have been placed completely out of order. You are also still providing me the same tickets over and over. I currently have 4x copies of tickets that I have not requested. Please stop sending me duplicates of tickets, making the parcel I receive from you incredibly oversized and full of replicated and already received documents.

    Due to the fact that there are still documents missing, others completely vanished and again the duplication of tickets, I can only assume that the reason for this was for scare tactics and to ensure hours were lost on my part organising said documents and identifying what is missing. I would also like add that this misleading correspondence, the omission of others and lack of explanations is still adding significant distress, both to myself, and my family.

    I also to note your complete disregard for my request of nominated address for service. In my previous letter, I clearly stated that I wish to nominate a different address to which all further correspondence should be sent. You chose to ignore this request. I can only assume this was in the hope I would not receive your letter and missed your allocated time slot for a reply.

    I further state that my nominated address for service is:

    ****
    ******
    ******

    to which all further correspondence must be sent. It is a failure of your obligations under the Data Protection Act not to ensure that correct and up to date records are maintained. Failure to continue to do so breaches the Data Protection Act Principles, specifically Principle 4, and by continuing to do so, does not allow the fair and proper process and storage of correct data.
    Should this request be further ignored, I put you on notice that an ICO complaint will be pursued.

    You should also note that I have sent a copy of this letter to my MP and intend to appraise him of your harassment and distress you are causing.

    I expect a substantive response with the documents and POPLA code (or confirmation of cancellation of all PCNs) within 14 days of this letter.

    Yours faithfully


    Thank you all again, amazing help!
    Last edited by Doodakoff; 04-02-2018 at 8:53 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 8:56 PM
    • 57,436 Posts
    • 71,029 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Looks good.

    You are fighting this at a time when some Judges and plenty of MPs have sussed the scam industry.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 5th Feb 18, 6:11 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    Thank you Coupon-mad, I'll print it and sent it tomorrow.

    I've posted the first couple of pages of the form they included. Do I need to complete this also?




    It doesn't look like any official documentation, it just looks like a hodge podge poorly photocopied document they've decided to throw in with their reply.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Feb 18, 6:16 PM
    • 7,184 Posts
    • 6,665 Thanks
    KeithP
    They are obliged to send those two forms with a Letter of Claim these days.

    See here:

    There is no need to use either form.
    Last edited by KeithP; 05-02-2018 at 6:19 PM.
    .
    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 5th Feb 18, 7:03 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    Thank you, I'll print off my reply and just send that.
    • Potatini
    • By Potatini 14th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Potatini
    I have that one too!
    Dear Doodakoff, I've received that same letter too - word to word!
    I think it's a standard, automated template, at this point.
    The differences between our cases are that:
    - I received mine as a first LBC, only preceded by threatening letter, which I have decided (maybe mistakenly) to ignore.
    - The parking in cause was located within a defined hospital staff car park, for which the car has a paid parking permission AND paid scratchcards to comply.
    I'm sending a letter to defend myself being the non-liable keeper, for now.
    I'll open a thread when I receive a reply, as I'll probably need advice!
    Best of luck with you peril.
    And thanks to all you experts, you're such a great support!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Mar 18, 5:34 AM
    • 17,575 Posts
    • 27,786 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Dear Doodakoff, I've received that same letter too - word to word!
    I think it's a standard, automated template, at this point.
    The differences between our cases are that:
    - I received mine as a first LBC, only preceded by threatening letter, which I have decided (maybe mistakenly) to ignore.
    - The parking in cause was located within a defined hospital staff car park, for which the car has a paid parking permission AND paid scratchcards to comply.
    I'm sending a letter to defend myself being the non-liable keeper, for now.
    I'll open a thread when I receive a reply, as I'll probably need advice!
    Best of luck with you peril.
    And thanks to all you experts, you're such a great support!
    Originally posted by Potatini
    Before you send anything off, please URGENTLY read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 which provides you with the information on how to deal PROPERLY with a LBC ... and all the steps that follow right up to any court hearing.

    Please do start your own thread for any further guidance - no further input to this thread please or things will become confused. Thanks.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 20th Mar 18, 11:28 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    Hello again,

    We received another response and this time, they actually replied within 30 days!

    They have finally supplied me with clarification around the totality of PCN's, photo's of the signs at the location and a map of boundaries to the car park. They even sent this my nominated address so they have now begun to read my letters!

    I've attached photo's of the letters below for reference.




    I'm not sure how I can keep this letter tennis up further so I've been reading how to structure my defence and the letter to my local MP.

    Is there anything anyone can suggest to include in a reply or should I wait for their next move following the 30 days they have given me to respond?

    Thanks again all
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 20th Mar 18, 3:53 PM
    • 2,471 Posts
    • 3,018 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Well no, you cant jsut not respond.

    Thats possibly unreasonable

    So, having gone through all the documents they atached, have you concluded anything? Is the contract meaningful? In date? Signed? REdacted so much you cant tell anything?
    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 20th Mar 18, 6:23 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    Thank you for your reply nosferatu1001. I shall begin drafting my reply, even if to acknowledge receipt of the documents that have provided me.

    They have confirmed which PCN's they believe I owe.

    They have included photo's of the signage of the site, although the photos are not dated. I know that the signage has since changed and the photos they have provided are of older signs. This may be worth mentioning in my reply. The map of the boundaries is also not dated.

    In relation to the redacted agreement: The redactments made by them are in black. I have redacted the location - only because I'm not sure if to include it or not.


    I believe it is meaningful. It is signed (on the last page) and dated, stating the period the contract covers is from 21st December 2016 and onwards. It also states the times for the enforcement of the terms and conditions of the signage.

    They appear to have redacted names and addresses only.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 20th Mar 18, 6:56 PM
    • 1,026 Posts
    • 1,976 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Ok - I assume there are more pages than that? The letter says they can't ticket ambulances, but it doesn't say who they can ticket (at all).

    Some musings. (Not advice, but food for thought)

    That letter does appear to be dated 26/4/2017 (mysteriously) - that's 1 day prior to the first notification to the o/p's partner from SCS law on 27/4/2017, by which time numerous tickets had been issued.

    The letter is retrospective in effect from December 2016. If it is retrospective and valid, which is quite possible, what terms does it enforce if the signs have changed over that period? The parent contract (which I presume has not been disclosed) may shed proper light on this.

    A problem for them - even if it is a valid agreement authorising the pursuit of old charges, they had presumably already contacted the DVLA without authorisation by then to get the op's details, which is a DPA breach and a breach of their obligations as a PPC. Counterclaim territory, perhaps?
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 20th Mar 18, 7:49 PM
    • 1,704 Posts
    • 2,301 Thanks
    Castle
    Further food for thought!

    The letter dated 26th April refers to "Britannia Parking Services or Britannia Parking Group Ltd".
    These are two separate companies; so which one has the contract?
    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 21st Mar 18, 12:33 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    Thank you Johnersh and thank you Castle!

    The contract is the page that I have posted in my previous reply and another which only has a signature from the Managing Director of Britannia Parking Group Limited. There is no other information provided and no mention of what vehicles can be ticketed.

    In relation to the date - Wednesday 26th April 2017 - I never spotted that!. I will request a copy of a contract for the times that apply to the PNC's received prior to this. Is there a way to prove that they don't just edit an existing contact and replace the date I wonder.

    I will also request a copy of the parent contract in order to better understand the contract set out in both sets of signage considering they have changed. #

    I'll also mention the DPA breach and breach of obligations.

    Lastly, I will ask which company has the contract considering they seemed to have also changed names as well as signage within this period!

    Thank you so much to you both for this. I'll come back with a drafted letter on response.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 21st Mar 18, 1:22 PM
    • 1,704 Posts
    • 2,301 Thanks
    Castle
    Thank you Johnersh and thank you Castle!

    The contract is the page that I have posted in my previous reply and another which only has a signature from the Managing Director of Britannia Parking Group Limited. There is no other information provided and no mention of what vehicles can be ticketed.
    Originally posted by Doodakoff
    I think you'll find that the signature on the 26th April letter, is that of their client.

    Question; have you contacted DVLA to find out which company requested the RK's details?
    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 21st Mar 18, 2:29 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    Yes your'e right Castle, apologies, I misread the bottom of the page.

    The signature which confirms the authorisation of the contents of the contract is signed by a redacted name. It is dated 5th May 2017 and his position is "Director". Does this indicate that they hadn't received permission in relation to enforcement of the car park prior to the signature been obtained?

    I have contacted DVLA and have been informed that it is a V888 Document that I am required to complete and post to them. I will need to attach a covering letter to explain the situation in order to receive the information I am requesting.
    Last edited by Doodakoff; 21-03-2018 at 2:31 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Mar 18, 2:35 PM
    • 17,575 Posts
    • 27,786 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I have contacted DVLA and have been informed that it is a V888 Document that I am required to complete and post to them.
    That will cost you. But you can and should get it for free. Have a look at this Parking Prankster blog and it's embedded links.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.za/2015/06/dvla-reverse-position-on-charging-to.html
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 18, 11:59 PM
    • 57,436 Posts
    • 71,029 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I have contacted DVLA and have been informed that it is a V888 Document that I am required to complete and post to them.
    That DVLA clerk is wrong:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73319980#post73319980

    See post #26 and #28, for the email address and what to email.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Doodakoff
    • By Doodakoff 25th Mar 18, 12:42 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    Doodakoff
    Thank you Umkomaas and Coupon-mad, I've sent an email as per your advice.

    I've been swamped with work over the past week but I've finally managed to draft the following response

    Dear Sirs,

    Re: Britannia Parking Group Ltd

    I write further to your letter dated **** received **** and note the contents provided, however I still require the following additional information from you.

    You have sent me a copy of a document which you state authorises your client to control parking at ****. Again, I can only assume this document has been created for confusion and intimidation purposes, as it appears to be missing critical information that would set out the terms of an alleged contract between it and a driver.

    The document states, "Britannia Parking Services or its parent company Britannia Parking Group Limited in respect of the above car park is responsible for putting up and maintaining signage". These are two separate companies and to ensure it is clear to myself who is responsible, which company has the contract?

    Your contract states that a number of vehicles, including fire, ambulance and police, cannot be subject to parking controls or enforcement. The contract does not however state what vehicles are subject to these terms.

    The contract is dated Wednesday 26th April 2017. This contract is then signed Friday 5th May 2017 by the "Director". I find it highly suspicious that I received your first correspondence a day after this contract was dated. I am also confused as to how any PCN's were issued prior to this date if the contract that authotrised your client to control parking at ***** was not in effect until after Wednesday 26th April 2017 or in fact Friday 5th May 2017 when the contract was signed.

    You have still not provided a copy of signs on display, with times and dates these were taken, or a dated plan of their position in the car park as they were displayed. The times and dates are a key aspect for reasons I have previously explained. The car park remains incredibly confusing to this date due to the number of separate car parks and parking operators in the area and I require a clear dated plan of the above requested documents.

    Further to the last, the area in which the car park is situated was a new build at the time of the issued PCN's, the contract you have provided is of a recent date and it is of note that I have since returned to the car park and have observed completely different signage than the images you have provided. This new signage has even more information on it, in small unreadable text unless you are in very close proximity. I therefore request the parent contract, which you have not disclosed, in order to ascertain what terms were enforced and what terms changed over the period that the PCN's issued to my vehicle relate to.

    Lastly, I again put you on notice that I will make a counterclaim for damages in respect of such Data Protection Act (DPA) breaches and breaches of your obligations as a Private Parking Company, in respect of each and every individual PCN/DVLA data request.

    I again remind you that Britannia Parking Group Ltd have no lawful excuse to use my DVLA data beyond the very basic cause, of enquiring as to the driver's identity. Your client has accessed my keeper details from the DVLA on more than one occasion. Whilst obtaining DVLA data to enquire who was driving is allowed under the KADOE rules, that data must not be further used for any purpose outside the basis upon which it was provided by the DVLA. Your client has stepped outside the DVLA provision of my data by continuing to cause me significant distress by harassing me, the registered keeper.

    A request has been placed with the DVLA in order to ascertain how many times your client requested such information.

    I expect a substantive response within 14 days of this letter.

    Yours faithfully,

    ********



    Thank you for reading and I hope I've grasped and taken on board the advice given so far.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 25th Mar 18, 1:29 PM
    • 9,204 Posts
    • 8,968 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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