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  • FIRST POST
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 26th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    • 13,727Posts
    • 13,064Thanks
    sourcrates
    DMP Mutual Support Thread - Part 12
    • #1
    • 26th Mar 17, 12:20 PM
    DMP Mutual Support Thread - Part 12 26th Mar 17 at 12:20 PM
    Welcome to the DMP mutual support thread Part 12 !!

    Here you can find help in starting and running your DMP, self managed, Stepchange, Payplan and any other DMP all welcome here, but we do encourage you to use a free service, not one you pay for.

    There is help on getting interest and charges stopped, how to start with an emergency fund, defaults, token payments and lots more.

    If you are in a DMP or thinking of one, this is the place to be. We are non judgmental and all questions are welcome.

    Again the old thread was getting a tad long, so time for a new one.

    The old thread can be found here :

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5285089

    Once again, i think the original "newbie" post by sazzie23 still rings true.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 26-03-2017 at 12:50 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
Page 144
    • KID77
    • By KID77 11th Feb 18, 7:00 PM
    • 215 Posts
    • 432 Thanks
    KID77
    Carboot

    That's disappointing about your old debts and also Tesco. I too am waiting on Robinson Way/Tesco.

    Have you had them all checked out as Jan said, just to be sure?

    I have now written offering a very small payment (less than 10%) on these apparent UEs and so fully expect the offer to be declined. I will then try and ignore until they go to 10%....fingers crossed.

    KID
    DMP Number 437
    LBM May 2015 47k in debt
    Starting DMP 1st July 2015
    • Brogden
    • By Brogden 12th Feb 18, 8:16 AM
    • 1,151 Posts
    • 5,225 Thanks
    Brogden
    [QUOTE=January2015;73863836]Hi Brogden

    My thoughts are just totally ignore PRAT. That's what I did. If they decide to offer you a decent settlement you are happy with, then at that point you can communicate with them. Otherwise, I would leave this be and keep it rolling towards statute barred [QUOTE=January2015;73863836]

    Thanks January / Sourcrates / Suseka.

    I am going to ignore PRA for now, assuming that they don't start on me. Things are different than previously. Two or three years ago I was throwing money randomly at debts all over the place. Now there is calm and my brain is working a bit better. I have two debts, one is on a reasonable monthly payment plan and this is 'on hold.' Fine .

    I'm working 24/7 on getting rid of the mortgage, hopefully over the next two or three years and if PRA leave me in peace then I will only try to arrange something with them when the end of the mortgage is in sight.

    The thing is......I want everything in order......a life's work completed !!!!!! I'll just have to be patient though.

    Believe it or not this debt started in 1995!!!!! It annoys me when PRA refer to my 'Lloyd's debt.' I have never applied to Lloyds for anything! Years before the default they bought the credit card book of 'Morethan.' Lloyds appointed Moorcroft as collection agents. Then behind the scenes they sold the debt to PRAT. Then PRAT sacked Moorcroft......on and on and on it goes......

    Thanks everybody and speak shortly.

    Brogden.
    • January2015
    • By January2015 12th Feb 18, 9:49 AM
    • 2,054 Posts
    • 5,125 Thanks
    January2015
    Thanks January / Sourcrates / Suseka.

    I am going to ignore PRA for now, assuming that they don't start on me. Things are different than previously. Two or three years ago I was throwing money randomly at debts all over the place. Now there is calm and my brain is working a bit better. I have two debts, one is on a reasonable monthly payment plan and this is 'on hold.' Fine .

    I'm working 24/7 on getting rid of the mortgage, hopefully over the next two or three years and if PRA leave me in peace then I will only try to arrange something with them when the end of the mortgage is in sight.

    The thing is......I want everything in order......a life's work completed !!!!!! I'll just have to be patient though.

    Believe it or not this debt started in 1995!!!!! It annoys me when PRA refer to my 'Lloyd's debt.' I have never applied to Lloyds for anything! Years before the default they bought the credit card book of 'Morethan.' Lloyds appointed Moorcroft as collection agents. Then behind the scenes they sold the debt to PRAT. Then PRAT sacked Moorcroft......on and on and on it goes......

    Thanks everybody and speak shortly.

    Brogden.
    Originally posted by Brogden
    Hi Brogden

    I'm now of the same mindset as you - sort the secured loan and mortgage first and then the unsecured debts. Whilst I'm overpaying the mortgages I'm reducing the long term interest on those. Whilst I'm not paying much to the unsecured loans, they are not increasing and are actually moving towards improved F&F offers I have money saved for F&Fs should any decent offers come through, but I don't save much more into this pot now as I overpay on the secured debts instead now

    I used the MSE mortgage overpayment calculator to work out how much interest and how many years I could shave off my secure debts. For me, it was a no brainer

    I've probably asked already - but did you get your CCAs checked out on All about debt? It seems a shame that such old agreements are enforceable
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=2]
    • ploppy57
    • By ploppy57 12th Feb 18, 10:16 AM
    • 711 Posts
    • 4,602 Thanks
    ploppy57
    Hi Brogden

    I'm now of the same mindset as you - sort the secured loan and mortgage first and then the unsecured debts. Whilst I'm overpaying the mortgages I'm reducing the long term interest on those. Whilst I'm not paying much to the unsecured loans, they are not increasing and are actually moving towards improved F&F offers I have money saved for F&Fs should any decent offers come through, but I don't save much more into this pot now as I overpay on the secured debts instead now

    I used the MSE mortgage overpayment calculator to work out how much interest and how many years I could shave off my secure debts. For me, it was a no brainer

    I've probably asked already - but did you get your CCAs checked out on All about debt? It seems a shame that such old agreements are enforceable
    Originally posted by January2015
    That's good advice about the mortgage over payments. I must look up this calculator. Think our mortgage states we can not pay more than 10% extra without incurring admin fees or something. I must check.
    DMP March '15 £57,549. Now £44,430. Went SM Feb '18 to get DF sooner.
    Emergency fund #231... Building up slowly, waiting for a pension pot to arrive to give it a big boost.
    Christmas '18 challenge... £22 /£300
    "There's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow, Shining at the end of every day"
    • ploppy57
    • By ploppy57 12th Feb 18, 10:17 AM
    • 711 Posts
    • 4,602 Thanks
    ploppy57
    Can I just check something else. Once an UE becomes Statute Barred. Does that mean no one can make you pay anything?
    DMP March '15 £57,549. Now £44,430. Went SM Feb '18 to get DF sooner.
    Emergency fund #231... Building up slowly, waiting for a pension pot to arrive to give it a big boost.
    Christmas '18 challenge... £22 /£300
    "There's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow, Shining at the end of every day"
    • January2015
    • By January2015 12th Feb 18, 12:02 PM
    • 2,054 Posts
    • 5,125 Thanks
    January2015
    Can I just check something else. Once an UE becomes Statute Barred. Does that mean no one can make you pay anything?
    Originally posted by ploppy57
    No one can make you pay anything on UE or Statute barred.

    UE means the debt is still owed, but cannot be enforced through courts because there is an issue with the credit agreement that made it not fully compliant with legislation etc. and therefore you cannot be forced to pay it.

    Statute barred also means the debt is still owed but the time a creditor has to chase payment has passed (6 years in England where you have not made payment to, nor have you acknowledged the debt in writing).

    Like I said - for both UE and Statute Barred debtors cannot be forced to make payments even though technically the debt is still owed
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=2]
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 12th Feb 18, 12:29 PM
    • 13,727 Posts
    • 13,064 Thanks
    sourcrates
    No one can make you pay anything on UE or Statute barred.

    UE means the debt is still owed, but cannot be enforced through courts because there is an issue with the credit agreement that made it not fully compliant with legislation etc. and therefore you cannot be forced to pay it.

    Statute barred also means the debt is still owed but the time a creditor has to chase payment has passed (6 years in England where you have not made payment to, nor have you acknowledged the debt in writing).

    Like I said - for both UE and Statute Barred debtors cannot be forced to make payments even though technically the debt is still owed
    Originally posted by January2015
    Can i just add that if a creditor starts legal action on either a statute barred or unenforceable debt, you must still respond to the court papers, otherwise a CCJ can still be registered against you.

    Don`t assume because you know the debts cant be enforced, that the court is also aware of this, they wont be.

    With a statute barred debt, you would defend on the basis that time has run out for collecting this debt, under sec 5, limitations act.1980.

    With an unenforceable debt, you would defend on the basis of a non compliant credit agreement.

    You must defend the action, otherwise you risk a CCJ by default.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • January2015
    • By January2015 12th Feb 18, 12:32 PM
    • 2,054 Posts
    • 5,125 Thanks
    January2015
    Can i just add that if a creditor starts legal action on either a statute barred or unenforceable debt, you must still respond to the court papers, otherwise a CCJ can still be registered against you.

    Don`t assume because you know the debts cant be enforced, that the court is also aware of this, they wont be.

    With a statute barred debt, you would defend on the basis that time has run out for collecting this debt, under sec 5, limitations act.1980.

    With an unenforceable debt, you would defend on the basis of a non compliant credit agreement.

    You must defend the action, otherwise you risk a CCJ by default.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    Thank you Sourcrates I knew that, but never thought to type any of it
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=2]
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 12th Feb 18, 12:36 PM
    • 13,727 Posts
    • 13,064 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Thank you Sourcrates I knew that, but never thought to type any of it
    Originally posted by January2015
    I know you do lol, but It happens a lot, people think because there debt cant be enforced through the courts, that they can just ignore letters about court action, then they are surprised when they check their file and find a judgment.

    They must always respond to court papers.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Suseka97
    • By Suseka97 12th Feb 18, 12:50 PM
    • 215 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    Suseka97
    I know you do lol, but It happens a lot, people think because there debt cant be enforced through the courts, that they can just ignore letters about court action, then they are surprised when they check their file and find a judgment.
    They must always respond to court papers.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    Good advice - I have just one query about the sending/serving of court papers, purely out of interest. Do they have to be proven to have been received by the debtor (so signed for, or physically handed to someone) or can creditors set an action in motion to a last known address. I'm curious as to what would happen in the case that someone moves and doesn't keep the creditor / DCA informed of their whereabouts. I read back a while, not on this thread, that someone was hoping to avoid such actions by virtue of the fact they'd moved and hadn't told anyone.
    LBM Apr13: 14 Creditors / £85k+ owed
    Self-managed Aug17
    Current Status: 3 UE's and 3 with CCA's pending / £11k o/s
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 12th Feb 18, 12:57 PM
    • 13,727 Posts
    • 13,064 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Good advice - I have just one query about the sending/serving of court papers, purely out of interest. Do they have to be proven to have been received by the debtor (so signed for, or physically handed to someone) or can creditors set an action in motion to a last known address. I'm curious as to what would happen in the case that someone moves and doesn't keep the creditor / DCA informed of their whereabouts. I read back a while, not on this thread, that someone was hoping to avoid such actions by virtue of the fact they'd moved and hadn't told anyone.
    Originally posted by Suseka97
    This is again, a common problem. Papers only have to be sent to the debtors last known address, there`s no attempt to check if its the current address or not (this is currently the subject of a government review, so will hopefully change).

    That is why so many people get a "CCJ by Default" because they were completely unaware of the action taking place.

    If you don`t defend it, the creditor is awarded the judgement by default.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Suseka97
    • By Suseka97 12th Feb 18, 1:10 PM
    • 215 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    Suseka97
    ,,,,,,I used the MSE mortgage overpayment calculator to work out how much interest and how many years I could shave off my secure debts. For me, it was a no brainer
    Originally posted by January2015
    Thanks to the tip Jan15 - I was looking at whether to re-mortgage in an attempt to bring the years down - currently too many left to pay and would take us well into our retirement years I've just had a mosey at that overpayment calculator and looked at the results vs the terms/cost if we were to re-mortgage and overpaying seems to be a better option. Am going to book a appointment with our lender and have a proper chat. Just paying £300 per month extra shaves more than 4 years off our current term. A far better use of the DMP savings - have currently more than enough in the F&F pot as and when the time comes.
    LBM Apr13: 14 Creditors / £85k+ owed
    Self-managed Aug17
    Current Status: 3 UE's and 3 with CCA's pending / £11k o/s
    • January2015
    • By January2015 12th Feb 18, 1:19 PM
    • 2,054 Posts
    • 5,125 Thanks
    January2015
    Thanks to the tip Jan15 - I was looking at whether to re-mortgage in an attempt to bring the years down - currently too many left to pay and would take us well into our retirement years I've just had a mosey at that overpayment calculator and looked at the results vs the terms/cost if we were to re-mortgage and overpaying seems to be a better option. Am going to book a appointment with our lender and have a proper chat. Just paying £300 per month extra shaves more than 4 years off our current term. A far better use of the DMP savings - have currently more than enough in the F&F pot as and when the time comes.
    Originally posted by Suseka97
    I have 75% of the face value of my non secured debts in savings now. It really does help to only pay token payments Based on this I felt comfortable throwing extra money at the secured loan first and then I will attack the mortgage.

    I decided I had enough saved for any decent F&Fs that come through, but more importantly to stave off any potential court action should I get a really bolshy DCA. Thankfully that hasn't happened, and I can't really see it happening, but I am prepared just in case
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=2]
    • Daisypop
    • By Daisypop 12th Feb 18, 7:01 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    Daisypop
    Thanks all very helpful I am sending letters this week and wonít go into detail will offer tokens for 6 months and then will do an updated i and e after that.
    Thanks again
    • Brogden
    • By Brogden 13th Feb 18, 9:59 AM
    • 1,151 Posts
    • 5,225 Thanks
    Brogden
    Hi Brogden

    I'm now of the same mindset as you - sort the secured loan and mortgage first and then the unsecured debts. Whilst I'm overpaying the mortgages I'm reducing the long term interest on those. Whilst I'm not paying much to the unsecured loans, they are not increasing and are actually moving towards improved F&F offers I have money saved for F&Fs should any decent offers come through, but I don't save much more into this pot now as I overpay on the secured debts instead now

    I used the MSE mortgage overpayment calculator to work out how much interest and how many years I could shave off my secure debts. For me, it was a no brainer

    I've probably asked already - but did you get your CCAs checked out on All about debt? It seems a shame that such old agreements are enforceable
    Originally posted by January2015
    Thanks Jan - you really are a smooth operator !!

    I didn't get any CCA's checked out on 'All About Debt.' I think I came to my own conclusions that everything was right based on how right they looked, how recent the credit agreement was, whether the firm was behaving competently or like a bunch of monkeys. If they passed these 'Brogden-tests' I let it be, knowing that to argue may cause things to go to Court which although I may win at that time would have greatly increased marital tensions.....

    However.....where a firm could not produce anything following my CCA request, that could be a different matter. This happened on two......this PRAT one we are talking about and one of Mrs. B's with Cabort. I settled hers at a discount even though I knew it must be UE simply to avoid the old marital tensions again......she would never understand the argument that you shouldn't pay because it was UE and would kick off every time a letter or statement was posted to her. I was 'supposed to be digging us out of the hole' !! My decision on this was very definitely the correct one !!

    Looking again now at my UE PRAT file, I see my CCA request was sent to collection agents, Moorcroft at the start of 2016. This was before PRAT sacked them. Moorcroft sent a letter saying they were contacting the debt owners who would contact the original creditor etc etc...I am remiss in not keeping a record but at the time Moorcoft were sacked I know I spoke to PRA who were chasing a new payment arrangement. Anyway, that was two years ago - no arrangegement or payments made since. It looks like it's four years to go.......let's see......
    • Summer12
    • By Summer12 13th Feb 18, 11:55 AM
    • 77 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Summer12
    CCA before dmp
    Hi

    Having read through the latest posts Iím thinking about putting in CCA requests for 3 of our oldest debts ( from about 1997). It seems that once in a dmp and debts start getting passed on to collection agencies things start to get a little complicated. Any one see this as a bad idea? Havenít started dmp yet, still continuing with my researching! Thought If any come back ue I may feel a little less scared of the dmp! Also is an overdraft treated the same as a cc debit on a dmp? Thank you
    • January2015
    • By January2015 13th Feb 18, 12:22 PM
    • 2,054 Posts
    • 5,125 Thanks
    January2015
    Thanks Jan - you really are a smooth operator !!

    I didn't get any CCA's checked out on 'All About Debt.' I think I came to my own conclusions that everything was right based on how right they looked, how recent the credit agreement was, whether the firm was behaving competently or like a bunch of monkeys. If they passed these 'Brogden-tests' I let it be, knowing that to argue may cause things to go to Court which although I may win at that time would have greatly increased marital tensions.....

    However.....where a firm could not produce anything following my CCA request, that could be a different matter. This happened on two......this PRAT one we are talking about and one of Mrs. B's with Cabort. I settled hers at a discount even though I knew it must be UE simply to avoid the old marital tensions again......she would never understand the argument that you shouldn't pay because it was UE and would kick off every time a letter or statement was posted to her. I was 'supposed to be digging us out of the hole' !! My decision on this was very definitely the correct one !!

    Looking again now at my UE PRAT file, I see my CCA request was sent to collection agents, Moorcroft at the start of 2016. This was before PRAT sacked them. Moorcroft sent a letter saying they were contacting the debt owners who would contact the original creditor etc etc...I am remiss in not keeping a record but at the time Moorcoft were sacked I know I spoke to PRA who were chasing a new payment arrangement. Anyway, that was two years ago - no arrangegement or payments made since. It looks like it's four years to go.......let's see......
    Originally posted by Brogden
    Brogden

    Get those CCAs checked. PRAT sent me absolutely everything. Original application form signed by us, T&Cs, statements - it all looked perfect. What made it UE was something to do with the T&Cs on the application. Apparently they referred to a section of T&Cs we never had when signing.... or something like that. Anyway, I would never, never, ever have known had I not had it checked out on All about Debt. They looked, came back within an hour as UE.... no hesitation

    Regarding the PRAT no communication - I reckon they know it's UE and have stopped chasing (for now)
    DFW Nerd No. 1484 LBM 07/01/15 Debt was £95k I'm driving it down
    £1k emergency fund (member #84) £1k/£1k
    [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=2]
    • humblebee86
    • By humblebee86 13th Feb 18, 4:12 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    humblebee86
    Hi,

    got a letter today from NCO Resolve indicating that they have taken over my shop direct account. My dmp is currently managed through stepchange, It says at the bottom of the letter to inform them if I am dealing with my finances or doing it through 3rd party. do I need to do this or is it just automated? Also do I need to update with stepchange other nco have taken it over? same acc number egg.. .

    thanks
    • Brogden
    • By Brogden 13th Feb 18, 4:55 PM
    • 1,151 Posts
    • 5,225 Thanks
    Brogden
    Brogden

    Get those CCAs checked. PRAT sent me absolutely everything. Original application form signed by us, T&Cs, statements - it all looked perfect. What made it UE was something to do with the T&Cs on the application. Apparently they referred to a section of T&Cs we never had when signing.... or something like that. Anyway, I would never, never, ever have known had I not had it checked out on All about Debt. They looked, came back within an hour as UE.... no hesitation

    Regarding the PRAT no communication - I reckon they know it's UE and have stopped chasing (for now)
    Originally posted by January2015
    Thanks Jan,

    I only have two debts now and as we can see, one is pretty much declaring itself UE as we speak so I would only have one to consult AAD about. Having said that, it is a bigger one......

    When you got the decision from AAD, how did you approach the predator? Did you just write to tell them for the reasons X,Y&Z it was unenforceable and advise that for this reason you would be ceasing payments? If so......what did they come back with?

    Well done by the way !!
    • silentsmith
    • By silentsmith 13th Feb 18, 6:02 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    silentsmith
    Lost
    Hi
    I have been following these threads for a few months now. I am still a bit confused with the general language i.e. CCA, but no doubt it will make more sense with time.
    We have been struggling with debt for a few years now and we are at a point where we can't really ping pong credit card debts to low interest deals (we aren't reducing the debt at all). It hit home when we tried to remortgage with Tesco and they declined our application due to the amount of unsecured debt. The mortgage advisor, in not so many words, suggested we seek help. We tried two different avenue's to consolidate our debts in the last week to consolidate our CC debts to a unsecured personal loans. Not surprisingly they were declined based on our credit rating and the amount of unsecured debt. As so many people are open with their financial situation, I guess I can too. We are £41K in debt with CC's and 1 x personal loan. Not including our overdraft which up to 3 months ago was £3K, we are now staying within £1K. We are lucky to have a good joint income, above the national average.
    I don't think we have the energy or the time (we have 3 children) to do a DIY DMP but I can see the advantages. Everyone seems to approach Step Change, but I have the impression they like to take baby steps to reduce personal debt. In theory we would like to be unsecured debt free in 5 years time, before our eldest daughter starts (if she decides) university. Not sure how achievable this would be.
    Personally, it seems a big leap off a deep crevasse as I don't want a poor credit rating but at the same time we are sick to death of the struggle of debt. Who knows what will happen around the corner.
    I am at work at the moment so it's a bit of a mind dump. Any suggestions based on the information I have given, very much appreciated.
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