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  • FIRST POST
    • debstheleo
    • By debstheleo 15th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    debstheleo
    Money rec'd from a job I never started - advice please
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    Money rec'd from a job I never started - advice please 15th Mar 17 at 5:26 PM
    I am looking for some legal advice please:

    In Dec 2016 I applied for a temp role with M & S for 30+ hours. At the interview they offered me the role, but only 19 hours. I accepted as I was unemployed. At home on reflection of my travel costs, I declined the role.

    My husband worked for M & S (different branch) in a temp xmas role. They sent him a P45 while he was still working there. When 2 small payments were credited to our a/c in January we didn't think anything of it.

    Turns out M & S paid ME 146!!!! I never worked there, never had a contract, an employee number, clocked in or anything,

    Now they are demanding I pay this money back or they will instruct a debt collection agency.

    Does anyone know where I stand legally on this matter?

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 15th Mar 17, 5:32 PM
    • 10,664 Posts
    • 8,902 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:32 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:32 PM
    Yes you owe them 146
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 15th Mar 17, 6:18 PM
    • 5,623 Posts
    • 11,817 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 6:18 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 6:18 PM
    If they paid you it, then you owe it.

    You do not seem to be disputing it, just that you didnt know it was yours due to having a joint bank account and not checking what should have been received. Thats fair enough, however, you do still owe it.
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 15th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    • 17,196 Posts
    • 38,128 Thanks
    Masomnia
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    As above you owe them the money, same as anyone else who is overpaid.
    I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled. - P.G. Wodehouse
    • daytona0
    • By daytona0 15th Mar 17, 7:00 PM
    • 2,234 Posts
    • 2,667 Thanks
    daytona0
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:00 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:00 PM
    Having a joint account for wages is insane (in my opinion). Can't you just open up your own basic account somewhere and xfer your wages over each month? That way you've got a bit more of an audit trail to play with in case any such errors happen in the future!

    Banking advice aside, you need to:

    1. Pay the money back (or offer installments, I'm sure that they will be reasonable to an extent if you explain the situation rationally)

    2. Audit all of your incoming wages into this joint account from M+S. Then get your husband to cross-reference this with wages earned whilst working at M+S. Query any discrepancies.
    • lovinituk
    • By lovinituk 15th Mar 17, 7:03 PM
    • 5,353 Posts
    • 6,045 Thanks
    lovinituk
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:03 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:03 PM
    If they had taken 146 from you would you just let them keep it?
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 15th Mar 17, 7:11 PM
    • 4,888 Posts
    • 5,220 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:11 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:11 PM
    Having a joint account for wages is insane (in my opinion).
    Originally posted by daytona0
    My wife and I have had a joint account for everything ever since we married. No problem of any sort. All payments into the account are itemised so where's the problem?
    To me, not having a joint account suggests a lack of trust between the parties.
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 15th Mar 17, 7:16 PM
    • 6,246 Posts
    • 5,373 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:16 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:16 PM
    Hi,

    Turns out M & S paid ME 146!!!! I never worked there, never had a contract, an employee number, clocked in or anything,

    Now they are demanding I pay this money back or they will instruct a debt collection agency.
    Originally posted by debstheleo
    Wow, take it you've spent it now?

    You know it's wrong and that it wasn't yours, did you think that M&S were just dishing out gift vouchers?
    Y'all take care now.
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 15th Mar 17, 7:28 PM
    • 36,002 Posts
    • 46,356 Thanks
    McKneff
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:28 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 7:28 PM
    Wow, im surprised you even had to ask...
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Mar 17, 11:33 PM
    • 32,035 Posts
    • 19,223 Thanks
    getmore4less
    charge them for checking the payment is in fact theirs and arranging the refund.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 16th Mar 17, 12:10 AM
    • 31,636 Posts
    • 19,961 Thanks
    DCFC79
    OP as you can gather its a basic principle to give the money back unless you fancy having debt collectors at the door. Why did you have to ask, the money isnt yours since you didnt work for them.

    I take it you have talied the 146 up with what you husband had worked and its not for what he worked.

    I feel a claim for compensaton is due.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • lush walrus
    • By lush walrus 16th Mar 17, 5:23 AM
    • 1,930 Posts
    • 1,603 Thanks
    lush walrus
    Of course you owe them the money.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 16th Mar 17, 6:14 AM
    • 16,682 Posts
    • 41,268 Thanks
    FBaby
    Why do you think you should be entitled to keep it? Because they made an error? So if by error you credit a stranger by 146 by error when it was meant to go to your landlord, do you think they would have a right to keep that random payment just because you made that mistake?
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 16th Mar 17, 7:12 AM
    • 14,382 Posts
    • 77,698 Thanks
    GDB2222
    Actually, none of the advice above is quite accurate.

    Yes, you are normally obliged to return the money. But see the following from the Financial Ombudsman website.

    "But the position is not always as simple as this. The consumer may sometimes not have noticed that they had received money by mistake - perhaps because the amount did not stand out from other transactions in their account, or because they had wrongly identified it as a payment they were expecting. By the time the mistake comes to light, the consumer may have spent some or all of the money.

    Where we are satisfied that the consumer had in all honesty not realised that the money was not intended for them, we will generally look to see what they did with the money before the mistake was noticed.

    We will normally uphold complaints like this only where the consumer's position changed in such a way that it would be unfair for them now to have to pay back some or all of the money. To decide whether this has happened, we are likely to need to ask the consumer for details about their wider financial situation - so that we can fairly assess the impact on them of what has happened."

    This is a statement of the general position under law that you may not need to return (all) the money if you acted honestly and your position changed as a result of the mistake.
    Last edited by GDB2222; 16-03-2017 at 7:15 AM.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 16th Mar 17, 8:54 AM
    • 20,135 Posts
    • 15,855 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Actually, none of the advice above is quite accurate.

    Yes, you are normally obliged to return the money. But see the following from the Financial Ombudsman website.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    I'm sure your quote from the FOS is correct, but as they have no jurisdiction whatsoever in this case (assuming that the OP's job wasn't going to be with M&S Bank) I'm doubtful whether it has any relevance.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 16th Mar 17, 8:56 AM
    • 1,931 Posts
    • 7,086 Thanks
    Oakdene
    Actually, none of the advice above is quite accurate.

    Yes, you are normally obliged to return the money. But see the following from the Financial Ombudsman website.

    "But the position is not always as simple as this. The consumer may sometimes not have noticed that they had received money by mistake - perhaps because the amount did not stand out from other transactions in their account, or because they had wrongly identified it as a payment they were expecting. By the time the mistake comes to light, the consumer may have spent some or all of the money.

    Where we are satisfied that the consumer had in all honesty not realised that the money was not intended for them, we will generally look to see what they did with the money before the mistake was noticed.

    We will normally uphold complaints like this only where the consumer's position changed in such a way that it would be unfair for them now to have to pay back some or all of the money. To decide whether this has happened, we are likely to need to ask the consumer for details about their wider financial situation - so that we can fairly assess the impact on them of what has happened."

    This is a statement of the general position under law that you may not need to return (all) the money if you acted honestly and your position changed as a result of the mistake.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    Would be interested to see how consumer law relates in a matter which surely is employment law?
    • jonmoneybags
    • By jonmoneybags 16th Mar 17, 9:32 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 248 Thanks
    jonmoneybags
    I am looking for some legal advice please:

    In Dec 2016 I applied for a temp role with M & S for 30+ hours. At the interview they offered me the role, but only 19 hours. I accepted as I was unemployed. At home on reflection of my travel costs, I declined the role.

    My husband worked for M & S (different branch) in a temp xmas role. They sent him a P45 while he was still working there. When 2 small payments were credited to our a/c in January we didn't think anything of it.

    Turns out M & S paid ME 146!!!! I never worked there, never had a contract, an employee number, clocked in or anything,

    Now they are demanding I pay this money back or they will instruct a debt collection agency.

    Does anyone know where I stand legally on this matter?

    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by debstheleo
    I suggest paying for a lawyers time then.

    However if you want random advice from strangers, you have come to the right place. and my 2penceworth is;

    oh my, you really had to ask, what has this world come to.
    • catflap11
    • By catflap11 16th Mar 17, 10:05 AM
    • 77 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    catflap11
    How did they get your bank details? did you complete forms with your bank information on? normally that is done once you commence work? (or at least in my experience it is).

    Anyway, as everyone else has said, you owe them it, simple as that
    • maisie cat
    • By maisie cat 16th Mar 17, 10:24 AM
    • 396 Posts
    • 472 Thanks
    maisie cat
    Are you sure that your husband was paid all he should have been? If he received a P45 while still working there is a chance that you were both setup as a starters and when you changed your mind they terminated your husband rather than you. When I start a new job I always check that the correct amount of money comes into my account with the payslip so I'm surprised you didn't spot it. Most payroll systems are run a week or so in advance so you may have missed the cutoff for changes. That explains how you got the money in the first place & now you need to pay it back.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 16th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 2,894 Thanks
    Undervalued
    Actually, none of the advice above is quite accurate.

    Yes, you are normally obliged to return the money. But see the following from the Financial Ombudsman website.

    "But the position is not always as simple as this. The consumer may sometimes not have noticed that they had received money by mistake - perhaps because the amount did not stand out from other transactions in their account, or because they had wrongly identified it as a payment they were expecting. By the time the mistake comes to light, the consumer may have spent some or all of the money.

    Where we are satisfied that the consumer had in all honesty not realised that the money was not intended for them, we will generally look to see what they did with the money before the mistake was noticed.

    We will normally uphold complaints like this only where the consumer's position changed in such a way that it would be unfair for them now to have to pay back some or all of the money. To decide whether this has happened, we are likely to need to ask the consumer for details about their wider financial situation - so that we can fairly assess the impact on them of what has happened."

    This is a statement of the general position under law that you may not need to return (all) the money if you acted honestly and your position changed as a result of the mistake.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    Oh yes it is!

    What you have quoted would be of some (limited) relevance if the OP was in pocket as a result of an error by a bank or other organisation over which the FOS has jurisdiction.

    In an employment situation (which this would seem to be) there are incredibly few situations where somebody who is overpaid has a right to keep the money. This certainly wouldn't be one of them.
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