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  • FIRST POST
    • StellaN
    • By StellaN 26th Feb 17, 9:56 AM
    • 215Posts
    • 74Thanks
    StellaN
    Investment Trusts
    • #1
    • 26th Feb 17, 9:56 AM
    Investment Trusts 26th Feb 17 at 9:56 AM
    I would like to diversify my mainstream global investments. I currently hold Artemis Global Income, Newton Global Income and Fundsmith in my portfolio.

    I am looking to include a global Investment Trust and was looking at 2 options - a) Scottish Mortgage or b) Witan. Obviously, most people are aware of SMIT and its track record but the Trustnet risk score is around 135 whereas Witan is around 85 - why is there such a difference in risk exposure between these two trusts?

    Also, is there any other global trusts that anybody has invested in and experienced?
Page 5
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 18th May 17, 3:50 PM
    • 3,687 Posts
    • 2,186 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    I'm looking to invest in some IT's and doing some research on this, however I would like to ask for some views on investing in different geographical regions.

    For instance, some posters on this forum seem to hold several (3 or 4) UK Equity IT's - is this purely to receive the dividends for income? I don't require any income at the moment so I'm only interested in re-investment/growth at this stage.

    Also is it best to only have one IT in each geographical region (maybe with the exception of UK for income)?
    Originally posted by Sally57
    Didn't you go through this region / cross over discussion in your Investment Trusts or OEIC's thread????
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • Sally57
    • By Sally57 18th May 17, 4:03 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Sally57
    Didn't you go through this region / cross over discussion in your Investment Trusts or OEIC's thread????
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    I suppose I would just like to clarify the point about IT's in the UK Equity sector. Do people generally hold more than one in the UK sector purely because of the dividend for income?
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 18th May 17, 4:26 PM
    • 4,149 Posts
    • 5,237 Thanks
    ColdIron
    I'm not sure if it helps but I have 3 UK equity ITs that I hold for income, I've also got 3 non equity UK ITs for the same. But like OEICS and ETFs there are UK ITs that focus on growth if that's your objective. Personally I use global ITs, also for income, rather than try to build a portfolio of individual regions. The closest I have for a region specific focus is Henderson Far East Income (HFEL), I like the 5.6% dividend and it covers countries not always well represented in the others I hold
    • Linton
    • By Linton 18th May 17, 4:29 PM
    • 9,384 Posts
    • 9,519 Thanks
    Linton
    ITs are just another type of fund. Its a bit odd saying you want to invest in them and then asking which ones should you get. It makes much more sense to me for you to say you want to invest in, say, the UK for growth, what funds are available. Some may be UTs/OEICs, others ETFs and some may be ITs.

    I see ITs generally as highly managed niche products perhaps with a pronounced house investment style and objectives other than "beat the index". Income is often a significant objective. If the niche, the objectives and the style fit in with your objectives and wider portfolio then fine. UTs/OEICs are a better place to look if you want to create a broad geographically balanced growth portfolio.

    In any sector there are relatively few ITs and many of the sectors are industry or asset type rather than geography based, so just look on Trustnet for the sectors that interest you.
    • Sally57
    • By Sally57 19th May 17, 10:45 AM
    • 104 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    Sally57
    I'm not sure if it helps but I have 3 UK equity ITs that I hold for income, I've also got 3 non equity UK ITs for the same. But like OEICS and ETFs there are UK ITs that focus on growth if that's your objective. Personally I use global ITs, also for income, rather than try to build a portfolio of individual regions. The closest I have for a region specific focus is Henderson Far East Income (HFEL), I like the 5.6% dividend and it covers countries not always well represented in the others I hold
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    Thanks for that ColdIron so my conclusion is that most people tend to hold UK Equity Income IT's for the dividends/income.

    I only hold two IT's at the moment Fidelity Asian Values and F&C for my Global IT. I amn currently looking at an IT for Europe and am researching Jupiter Special Opportunties, Fidelity European Values and Henderson European Focus Trust but have yet to make a decision.

    I'm happy to stick with OEIC's in the other regions.
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 19th May 17, 12:25 PM
    • 4,149 Posts
    • 5,237 Thanks
    ColdIron
    Thanks for that ColdIron so my conclusion is that most people tend to hold UK Equity Income IT's for the dividends/income.

    I'm happy to stick with OEIC's in the other regions.
    Originally posted by Sally57
    That wouldn't be my conclusion

    If you're looking for income then UK equity income is an obvious candidate, as is non UK equity income. Fixed Income (UK or otherwise) shouldn't be overlooked either. But this is as true for funds as it is for ITs. I think that you might be being too binary about this. For a decade or more many people will have had a good slug of Woodford's Invesco Perpetual Income and High Income (funds) and his Edinburgh Investment Trust in their growth portfolio as reinvestment of dividends is a valid strategy to achieve steady growth. Conversely, few people would eschew Scottish Mortgage for growth just because it's an IT. You don't need to be so prescriptive about it. Horses for courses, tools for the job and all that good stuff
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 19th May 17, 12:42 PM
    • 1,826 Posts
    • 1,171 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    What I see in the original post and many subsequent posts is the desire to "slice and dice" to cover sectors and regions by buy lots of funds. This is a confusing and expensive approach. You can construct a well diversified portfolio with just 3 of 4 funds......if you want to overweight small cap or emerging markets then just buy that sort of index tracker to complement core whole market UK and International equity and bond trackers. Don't think you need to be invested in everything and stop paying active managers 1% or more in annual fees.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 27th Mar 18, 10:21 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I am looking into IT's for property holdings within my IT/Income portfolio section, also with some long term growth prospects.

    Anyone hold any of these property trusts and any thoughts on these?

    F&C Commercial Property Trust

    Standard Life Property Income

    Thanks
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 27th Mar 18, 10:38 PM
    • 4,149 Posts
    • 5,237 Thanks
    ColdIron
    I have FCPT in my SIPP and GIA for income. The dividends have been rock steady at 0.50p per share each month since 2012
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 27th Mar 18, 10:53 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I have FCPT in my SIPP and GIA for income. The dividends have been rock steady at 0.50p per share each month since 2012
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    I have been exploring property ITs for a while and understanding them more. That's good FCPT has been a solid holding for you and this could interest me and it can be added on HLs regular monthly payments too which is good for me.

    Have you any experience with the standard life property trust or any others worth considering to maybe hold with FCPT?
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 28th Mar 18, 12:37 AM
    • 7,832 Posts
    • 14,303 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    That's good FCPT has been a solid holding for you and this could interest me
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    Have you any experience with the standard life property trust or any others worth considering to maybe hold with FCPT?
    I never quite understand what people are looking for when they ask what someone's "experience" has been with a particular trust or fund, or look to the fact that someone else out there in the rest of the UK has indeed made money off something to validate the fact that it did go up in price or pay out the dividends it declared, just like its claimed performance said it did.

    If you look at the historic performance charts going back 10+ years you can imagine that any random stranger bought at x price on x date and got the return that followed from that point, positive or negative until he sold it at y price on y date or perhaps z price on z date. Having someone else pop up on a forum and say "yes my experience was it paid reliable growing dividends between year b and year c then it cut them for a few years and dropped in price then eventually it started paying and went back up to d" does not add much to your due diligence process, as it's something you can already see from performance charts.

    So you are looking for something intangible that you don't get from a chart? The quarterly reports are well written, delivered on time and seem to consistently explain what's going on? The fund manager has been in place for 17 years and seems to still have his marbles? The annual general meetings are held in a room with a nice view over the city?

    Plenty of people hold all sorts of investment trusts, whether for income, growth, access to particular types of asset classes etc. What sort of experiences are you looking for that would sway your strategy one way or another?
    • firestone
    • By firestone 28th Mar 18, 12:58 AM
    • 226 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    firestone
    I have been exploring property ITs for a while and understanding them more. That's good FCPT has been a solid holding for you and this could interest me and it can be added on HLs regular monthly payments too which is good for me.

    Have you any experience with the standard life property trust or any others worth considering to maybe hold with FCPT?
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    Bowlhead99 as usual makes some good points.But if you are still looking to do some research in the same vain as F&C is Picton property there is also TR property which is more into the companies then bricks and mortar but has some and a European leaning.There are also funds for student living,warehousing & health etc which may up the risk possably due to being more niche
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 28th Mar 18, 8:35 AM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I never quite understand what people are looking for when they ask what someone's "experience" has been with a particular trust or fund, or look to the fact that someone else out there in the rest of the UK has indeed made money off something to validate the fact that it did go up in price or pay out the dividends it declared, just like its claimed performance said it did.

    If you look at the historic performance charts going back 10+ years you can imagine that any random stranger bought at x price on x date and got the return that followed from that point, positive or negative until he sold it at y price on y date or perhaps z price on z date. Having someone else pop up on a forum and say "yes my experience was it paid reliable growing dividends between year b and year c then it cut them for a few years and dropped in price then eventually it started paying and went back up to d" does not add much to your due diligence process, as it's something you can already see from performance charts.

    So you are looking for something intangible that you don't get from a chart? The quarterly reports are well written, delivered on time and seem to consistently explain what's going on? The fund manager has been in place for 17 years and seems to still have his marbles? The annual general meetings are held in a room with a nice view over the city?

    Plenty of people hold all sorts of investment trusts, whether for income, growth, access to particular types of asset classes etc. What sort of experiences are you looking for that would sway your strategy one way or another?
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    I totally agree with you and certainly when I re-read my post I deserved these points being made I had looked over as much information provided as possible over a reasonable period of time through the various sites and was comfortable with the objectives of the trust and all I can say is my post was further unnecessary procrastination, so I don't really know what other experiences I needed to hear or what that would provide to follow with a second post. Points taken and learnt from

    Based on everything I have looked at for this sector I have set up a regular investment into the F&C trust.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 28th Mar 18, 8:43 AM
    • 620 Posts
    • 391 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Bowlhead99 as usual makes some good points.But if you are still looking to do some research in the same vain as F&C is Picton property there is also TR property which is more into the companies then bricks and mortar but has some and a European leaning.There are also funds for student living,warehousing & health etc which may up the risk possably due to being more niche
    Originally posted by firestone
    Thanks for that, Bowlhead certainly made good points that helped wake me up with my coffee I have set up for F&C, also it can be part of my HL regular payments which suits my regular investing.

    I was looking for a trust holding the bricks and mortar, I looked at TR property before and see it is more into the companies.

    I have some small holdings built up in property partner which include some of the student living and as part of my IT/Income investments I had been looking into a property IT as well and this meets the objectives I was looking for to get started with this.

    Many thanks
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