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    • c1223
    • By c1223 1st Feb 17, 3:08 PM
    • 43Posts
    • 5Thanks
    c1223
    UK Car Park Management ignoring invoice rejection
    • #1
    • 1st Feb 17, 3:08 PM
    UK Car Park Management ignoring invoice rejection 1st Feb 17 at 3:08 PM
    Received an invoice as a car which I am the keeper of was incorrectly parked. Long story short is that the driver had to temporarily (3 minutes max) leave their car "illegally" parked (although not blocking any access or otherwise) in order to move a work van out of the space in which they would then place the car.

    Incident occurred on 01/10/16. As the car is a lease car, the finance company received the invoice and transferred liability to lease holder on 08/10/16. The invoice was then received by the leaseholder about a month (05/11/16) after the incident.

    Around just over 2 weeks later a letter was sent to UK CPM rejecting the invoice as they hadn't complied with PoFA 2012. UP CPM were warned that further use of personal details would be a breach of the DPA. Roughly 2 weeks after that (05/12/16) UK CPM sent a reply saying the appeal was carefully considered but "unsuccessful" on this occasion, essentially ignoring the content of the letter that had been sent to them.

    What are the options now?

    The back story of their non-compliance with the PoFA is that as per 14 (2) (a) (my bold):

    the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
    Not one of those documents was included, and if I calculate correct, their deadline to send them to me is 21 days after the lease company sent them?

    I believe the situation in this thread is similar to mine?

    Should I appeal with the IAS or should I send them a letter before claim for continuing to use my personal data?

    Also, I assume that I've got my argument correct and that they haven't complied with PoFA?

    Thanks
Page 3
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 1st Aug 18, 6:38 AM
    • 1,152 Posts
    • 2,185 Thanks
    Johnersh
    When the defence was filed at court was it also served on the claimant?

    That may explain why they filed a request for judgment as they'd have received nothing.

    This should be cleared up without the need for a hearing. As such if an application fee is payable it's £100. Still odd that judgment given in default though, given the receipt for the defence.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • c1223
    • By c1223 1st Aug 18, 4:59 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Courts are commercial operations so a judge would have to be certain about the court's error before he gets them to waive/refund the £255. But you have a CCJ and you might just have to pay it or for a set-aside unless you want to take a chance on their replying in under a month.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    I don't think I can guarantee that. I've been quoted 8 to 12 weeks which puts me way outside of 1 month for paying the CCJ. I do hope that I can guarantee a refund of the £255 given they received my defence 4 days before the deadline.

    When the defence was filed at court was it also served on the claimant?

    That may explain why they filed a request for judgment as they'd have received nothing.

    This should be cleared up without the need for a hearing. As such if an application fee is payable it's £100. Still odd that judgment given in default though, given the receipt for the defence.
    Originally posted by Johnersh
    The letter from the CCBC says i have "not replied to the claim form" and must therefore "pay the claimant". I have an auto-response from them confirming receipt of the email with my defence, but no further communication after that. I didn't think to chase up due to receiving said confirmation.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 1st Aug 18, 10:21 PM
    • 1,152 Posts
    • 2,185 Thanks
    Johnersh
    The letter from the CCBC says i have "not replied to the claim form" and must therefore "pay the claimant". I have an auto-response from them confirming receipt of the email with my defence,
    This isn't quite what I asked.

    Did you send a defence to BOTH the Court AND the claimant or their solicitors? You are required to.

    It seems unlikely that the claimant would have been able to seek default judgment if they were aware a defence was filed.

    I'd apply to set aside, but that's me. I don't think anyone here can tell you you'd defiy get the cash back (although I'd hope you would given the receipt for the defence that you'll rely on).
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • c1223
    • By c1223 1st Aug 18, 10:46 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Right - my misunderstanding. I didn't send the defence to the claimant/solicitors. All I did was email it to the CCBC. I didn't realise I had to do otherwise. So, does that mean I've completely ballsed this up and should just pay up now?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 2nd Aug 18, 5:39 AM
    • 2,976 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    Two choices - pay or set aside.

    The sending of the defence to the other side is not normal at this stage so you wouldn't have been advised to do it. For example, Gladstones only sent their claim to MCOL and not an additional copy to you. All that Johnersh was saying was that an additional stage of sending a defence would have avoided the issue IF MCOL were going to mess it up - as they have done.

    So there is a chance you will get fee remission if you pay for a set-aside but there is no guarantee. What you have to be aware of (again) is the clock is ticking and you have to do something.

    Don't leave it too late.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • c1223
    • By c1223 2nd Aug 18, 9:37 AM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    OK I'm going to file an N244 form asap. What is the processing time for this? Presumably the CCJ gets set-aside once they receive the form and then decided on once the form is read and processed by the DJ?
    • c1223
    • By c1223 3rd Aug 18, 3:06 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Sorry to post again, I'm just looking for clarification of the set-aside process.

    If I submit the N244 form, presumably there is some sort of processing time. So what happens in the mean time? The CCJ remains on my credit report? How about enforcement/bailiffs? Will the court tell Gladstones that there is a set-aside hearing and not to enforce the CCJ? Having done a lot of reading around, I cannot see a reason why my CCJ would not be set-aside.

    Also, hypothetically, if the judge doesn't set-aside the CCJ, this will presumably be after the 28 days are up. Does that mean that the CCJ will remain on my credit report (showing as satisfied) for 6 years? Or does the 28 days "reset" after the hearing for the set-aside?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 3rd Aug 18, 3:15 PM
    • 3,093 Posts
    • 3,798 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You ask for enforcement to be ceased in the meantime. THe best way is obviousoly to tell their solicitors that you have filed a N244 because the CCBC did not file your defence correctly.

    If you fail to get the CCJ set aside, nothing about the Judgement is changed. So it will remain on your file.
    • c1223
    • By c1223 3rd Aug 18, 3:20 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Great. So this isn't risk free for me, even though it isn't my mistake. What a messed up system!
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 3rd Aug 18, 3:21 PM
    • 8,637 Posts
    • 8,545 Thanks
    KeithP
    Is there anything in this post that might help you?...


    Particularly the sample Draft Order.
    .
    • c1223
    • By c1223 3rd Aug 18, 3:42 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Just reading here: https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/email-guidance#canfile

    If you are filing a document by email that contains a statement of truth you are reminded that you should retain the document containing the original signature. The version of the document which is filed by email must satisfy one of the following requirements:

    (a) the name of the person who has signed the statement of truth is typed underneath the statement:

    (b) the person who has signed the statement of truth has applied a facsimile of his signature to the statement in the document by mechanical means
    I "signed" my defence statement with an electronic copy of my signature. It is an exact copy of my real signature that I did with a digital pen. Beneath the signature is my full name typed out. Presumably that's OK as it conforms to requirement (a)?

    Also, I think this should be added to the relevant sticky, if people are emailing their defences:

    When you email the court in relation to existing proceedings the subject line of your mail must contain (in the following order): -

    (a) the case number, if one exists;

    (b) the parties' names (abbreviated if necessary);

    (c) if applicable, the date and time of any hearing to which the e-mail relates; and
    Your message should also contain the name, telephone number and email address of the sender. If you email us we will normally send any reply to you by email. However if you wish HMCTS to serve you by email you must explicitly request this.

    ...

    The court will check your email and either respond to your enquiry or, where further action is required, will confirm in due course.

    The date of filing will normally be the date of receipt unless the time of receipt is recorded as after 16.00 in which case the date of filing will be the next day the court office is open.

    If your email does not comply with the requirements of the Practice Direction your documents will be treated as having not been filed and in due course you will be sent a reply stating that it has been rejected and the reasons why.
    by https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/email-guidance#canfile
    Last edited by c1223; 03-08-2018 at 3:56 PM.
    • c1223
    • By c1223 7th Aug 18, 6:02 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to have to pay these criminals. I cannot risk the possibility of a CCJ (albeit "satisfied") on my credit report for the next 6 years as during that time I'll be hoping to apply for a mortgage. So annoying that the court has completely screwed up here, and the process for fixing their mistake is risky (and potentially costly) for me (even if the probability of it being fixed is close to 100%).
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 7th Aug 18, 6:09 PM
    • 3,093 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    You just pay up and still,apply for a set aside. Been told that.
    • c1223
    • By c1223 8th Aug 18, 1:32 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Will do that nosferatu1001.

    Does anyone have access to "Thomson Reuters - Practical Law" website. The following two entries seem to be of interest, but I cannot access.

    Can a default judgment be set aside after it has been satisfied?

    A defendant applied to set aside default judgment after enforcement began, but then paid the bailiff ("to protect their position"). Can the defendant still pursue the set aside application and reclaim the monies paid?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Aug 18, 3:01 PM
    • 3,093 Posts
    • 3,798 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You can pay and still apply for a set aside
    Tick, tick

    I'd show us your draft order, ws etc. Now.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Aug 18, 3:17 PM
    • 8,637 Posts
    • 8,545 Thanks
    KeithP
    Look at this post for a sample Draft Order:

    .
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 8th Aug 18, 3:28 PM
    • 1,152 Posts
    • 2,185 Thanks
    Johnersh
    In short, plc says there is no authority to say you can't, but:

    1 you still need to act promptly
    2. You could argue it's like an appeal, where you had to pay
    3. C could argue prejudiced "two bites of cherry" funds now being used etc.

    I'd have applied to set aside and stay the registration of the CCJ and enforcement pending the hearing (as I've said). The longer you ponder this, the more delay and less prospect of set aside. Or you just pay it...
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Aug 18, 3:34 PM
    • 3,093 Posts
    • 3,798 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Indeed, theres a lot of prevarication here
    The ONLY certain solution is to pay up
    But a set aside has a damned good chance of succeeding. IF you get going quickly.
    • c1223
    • By c1223 8th Aug 18, 4:49 PM
    • 43 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    c1223
    Thanks all. The information has been invaluable, but I don't feel I have the legal prowess (or the time to do enough research to become fully informed/prepare all the necessary documents) to continue this case. If I had the money, I would employ a solicitor to do this all for me.

    I shall be filing a complaint through Resolver in hope that people aren't put in this situation in the future.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 8th Aug 18, 9:48 PM
    • 1,152 Posts
    • 2,185 Thanks
    Johnersh
    If I had the money, I would employ a solicitor to do this all for me.
    But if I was providing legal advice - which I don't do on this forum - I'd probably say "principles cost money" (it's a trite phrase, but you'd be unlikely to recover the fees - legal fees not court fees). You'd probably be told paying would be cheaper.

    The only way to fight and keep costs down is to do the work yourself....
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
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