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  • FIRST POST
    • Jonamora
    • By Jonamora 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    • 1Posts
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    Jonamora
    Electric cars
    • #1
    • 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    Electric cars 24th Jan 17 at 5:11 PM
    Just wanted people's opinions on buying an electric car?

    Before long all cars will be electric and therfore is it best to sell petrol car at full value and invest in electric car.

    I don't want to start a new finance deals for 4 years and be complete but then left with and cat nobody wants or has resale value because all are electric.....thoughts

    Jonathan
Page 69
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 17th Apr 18, 12:51 PM
    • 7,449 Posts
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    Martyn1981
    ...and then you wonder why I call you a fanboi.


    Your interest in the sustainable future of transport stretches no further than fawning at the feet of your favourite sleb, and gawd help any facts or reality that get in the way of that deification.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Says the PSA fanboi!

    So, these truck 'facts' you stated, are you going to supply proof, or admit you made em all up?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 17th Apr 18, 12:52 PM
    • 7,540 Posts
    • 3,100 Thanks
    almillar
    Perhaps we should take the hint and do the same. M.
    I agree, but it's difficult when you keep flinging stuff at me.

    I questioned one thing (that YOU said, not the article),
    I need to rephrase this. I questioned what you said, not what the article said. I still haven't read the article. I've read what you quote from it, but it's not relevant to what *I* am talking about. My only point remains that rebadging that Mitsubishi twice, stocking it, selling it, promoting it etc since 2010 shows some commitment to the EV market. You dismiss it completely.

    and was before you realised all 3 cars were the same Mitsu
    Sigh. Yes, I've always known this, what with them looking almost identical. Peugeot and Citroen also sell/sold their own Mitsubishi Outlanders, if you're counting.
    all of your replies appear to be dead horse flogging
    What you call dead horse flogging I call sticking to one point. No name calling or anything, I just thought you had been a bit harsh on PSA in respect of EV commitment.
    I cited production models, Adrian cited a bunch of cars, vans, projects, all of which you have brushed over.

    Ah, you're back, thought I'd lost you for a moment there, so just to remind you, still waiting for your answers:
    Just like this poor distraction tactic. You can't expect answers from Adrian if you don't answer his.

    We have different opinions on this matter, our opinions are of little to no importance, so get over it.
    OK, done.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 17th Apr 18, 12:55 PM
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    Martyn1981
    I agree, but it's difficult when you keep flinging stuff at me.



    I need to rephrase this. I questioned what you said, not what the article said. I still haven't read the article. I've read what you quote from it, but it's not relevant to what *I* am talking about. My only point remains that rebadging that Mitsubishi twice, stocking it, selling it, promoting it etc since 2010 shows some commitment to the EV market. You dismiss it completely.



    Sigh. Yes, I've always known this, what with them looking almost identical. Peugeot and Citroen also sell/sold their own Mitsubishi Outlanders, if you're counting.


    What you call dead horse flogging I call sticking to one point. No name calling or anything, I just thought you had been a bit harsh on PSA in respect of EV commitment.
    I cited production models, Adrian cited a bunch of cars, vans, projects, all of which you have brushed over.



    Just like this poor distraction tactic. You can't expect answers from Adrian if you don't answer his.



    OK, done.
    Originally posted by almillar
    The horse is dead Al, the horse is dead.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 17th Apr 18, 3:46 PM
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    Martyn1981
    The Jaguar I-Pace seems to be getting a lot of good press, there's a long revue of it on Fully Charged. It's a lot of money, but also a lot of money less than a Tesla X.

    Jaguar I-PACE First Drive | Fully Charged
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 17th Apr 18, 8:40 PM
    • 18,376 Posts
    • 16,599 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Tesla Model 3 production problems "down to automation", and human labour is the answer.
    ...
    So production is getting onto track - finally. Good.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Looks like I might have spoken too soon...


    Production is alleged to be shutting down completely, with most staff either taking holiday days (remember, the US typically only gives 14 days/year) or just staying home unpaid. Perhaps just for 4-5 days, but what could possibly go wrong?
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-16/tesla-shutting-down-model-3-production-buzzfeed
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 18th Apr 18, 7:10 AM
    • 7,449 Posts
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    Martyn1981
    Looks like Germany is finally waking up to the fact that diesels are not the future, and that they need to be able to compete against the best EV's going forward.

    Germanyís Economy Minister: Auto Manufacturers Need To Invest Tens Of Billions Into EVs

    ďAltmaier said German carmakers needed to develop a model that had at least the range of a Tesla but costs less, and should work on developing an information technology platform for self-driving cars that was the best in the world.Ē

    That bit about undercutting Tesla on pricing is interesting. Presumably, Altmaier is talking about the Tesla Model 3, the model probably posing the most danger to auto manufacturer profits in Germany, but which company would be able to manage that? I suppose Volkswagen theoretically could (presuming cheap electric vehicle batteries could be had), but will it?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 18th Apr 18, 8:11 AM
    • 18,376 Posts
    • 16,599 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Might we be forgetting the VW e-Golf? On the market since 2014, currently £33k with 300km official range.
    http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/golf-vii-pa/explore/e-golf


    Hasn't sold well here, though, so far. Less than 200 registered, from HML.


    Merc and BMW appear to be going with the "parallel model" strategy, rather than all-electric 3-series and C-class.
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 18th Apr 18, 11:26 AM
    • 1,158 Posts
    • 1,243 Thanks
    Uxb
    300Km is 187 miles, though speakev forums seem to indicate a real world range in the lower 100 figure rather than the higher 100 figure.

    Once EV's get to the 250 to 300 miles capacity from full charge in all conditions and temperatures and up to 70mph speed usage then their viability as a sole vehicle will increase very considerably as that is the most normally done in one day by a vehicle outside business use.
    At the moment they are just not economically viable for most.
    I'd regularly do 100 miles and park up in a remote rural location and say walk or cycle as recreation and then do 100 miles back on fast roads: EV's totally unsuitable: bar the Tesla.

    Yes I know two people who have Tesla S's - very nice they are and considering the price so they should be - mind you they all have their ICE car as well so the Tesla is rather for show to demonstrate how green they are ---or whatever.
    As it is, my last replacement car cost a couple of £K. I can do a lot of maintenance, fuel and cam belt changes on that in the next 10 years for the price of a Tesla. I mean at £2K I could even not bother about servicing and MOT and simple scrap it and buy a new ICE each year and still be quids in.

    What will be interesting is how the second hand market in EV's is going to work.
    Currently getting parts for a 10 year old ICE car is no problem.
    One wonders if 5+ year old EV's will run up against the Microsoft/Apple/Intel problem of old computers: software no longer supported, no updates available, repair IC's no longer produced -- car basically scrap.
    That scenario could push motoring back to the early days of car ownership: only for the rich.
    • maxmycardagain
    • By maxmycardagain 18th Apr 18, 11:38 AM
    • 4,632 Posts
    • 3,728 Thanks
    maxmycardagain
    The Tesla 3 is the only one id look at
    Dont worry, be happy
    • maxmycardagain
    • By maxmycardagain 18th Apr 18, 11:41 AM
    • 4,632 Posts
    • 3,728 Thanks
    maxmycardagain
    HMG have already hammered new leccy cars with the tax on new ones over £40K (how many are under £40K?)

    When the revenue from petrol/diesel sales falls the tax on leccy cars will rocket


    Batteries are useless, we need fuel cell cars
    Dont worry, be happy
    • almillar
    • By almillar 18th Apr 18, 2:10 PM
    • 7,540 Posts
    • 3,100 Thanks
    almillar
    Might we be forgetting the VW e-Golf?
    I know someone who bought one. She found it very difficult to persuade dealers to actually take her money off her. This looks like a good example of a car the mamufacturer wanted the press for, but to not actually have to build. Price isn't that competitive either, but a good car apparantly.

    And I would place BMW way ahead of Merc with EVs - i3 (a mass produced carbon fibre chassis!) vs a (nice, but no longer for sale) B-Class with no fast charging.
    One wonders if 5+ year old EV's will run up against the Microsoft/Apple/Intel problem of old computers: software no longer supported, no updates available, repair IC's no longer produced -- car basically scrap.
    Have a look at the price of a new ECU for a 10 year old ICE car - scrap.

    new leccy cars with the tax on new ones over £40K (how many are under £40K?)
    Most of them?!

    Batteries are useless, we need fuel cell cars
    All way, way over £40k.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 18th Apr 18, 2:59 PM
    • 3,300 Posts
    • 2,050 Thanks
    Car 54
    I know someone who bought one. She found it very difficult to persuade dealers to actually take her money off her.
    Originally posted by almillar
    Unlike the Tesla dealers, who are eager to take your money but don't deliver the car.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 18th Apr 18, 4:33 PM
    • 2,911 Posts
    • 1,219 Thanks
    NigeWick
    Good Option if you want to take your EV on a European road trip

    Newmotion Roaming cards. Works across loads of European Networks (Only Shell Chargers in the UK at the moment and as they take credit card anyway not much point)
    Originally posted by Stageshoot
    I'm going to France in September and have a card from http://www.chargeyourcar.org.uk/ and
    http://www.kiwhipass.fr/
    Which seems to cover quite a few in France.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 18th Apr 18, 4:44 PM
    • 2,911 Posts
    • 1,219 Thanks
    NigeWick
    I bought a Nissan Leaf 2.ZERO 40kWh battery car. The vehicle itself is an improvement on the old 24 or 30kWh version, except, the efficiency.

    On the old 30 kWh car I could get 5 miles per kWh around town but with the new one I'm getting nowhere near that at present. I have therefore whinged to Nissan and am taking it in for tests Friday next week.

    The best I have managed was 4 miles per kWh slipstreaming HGVs on the A1 when I was expecting what others had got. This was 4.2 miles per kWh without slipstreaming at 55-60mph. 4.2 miles per kWh would give the WLTP estimate of 168 miles per full charge which is acceptable to me.

    The NEDC estimate for the 30 kWh car was 155 and at 5 miles per kWh I was close to that. The NEDC for the 40kWH vehicle is 235 miles and I am nowhere near that at about 170 miles indicated on the Guessometer with a full charge

    I will let you know how I get on.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 18th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
    • 18,376 Posts
    • 16,599 Thanks
    AdrianC
    HMG have already hammered new leccy cars with the tax on new ones over £40K (how many are under £40K?)
    Originally posted by maxmycardagain
    TBF, there are two elements to the VED for a new car. There's a CO2-related element, and there's a premium for £40k+ list cars, whatever the fuel type.
    From the second tax payment, the premium remains for five years, but petrol and diesel vehicles pay £140, electrics pay £0.



    When the revenue from petrol/diesel sales falls the tax on leccy cars will rocket
    Well, of course. Something has to fill that £40b hole in the gov't income.



    Batteries are useless, we need fuel cell cars
    Which is what PSA were working on a decade or so ago.
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/12/fisypac-20091208.html
    Last edited by AdrianC; 18-04-2018 at 4:54 PM.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 18th Apr 18, 5:39 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Which is what PSA were working on a decade or so ago.
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/12/fisypac-20091208.html
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    But in fairness to PSA, lots of the old school made the mistake of wasting money and time on hydrogen rather than supporting EV's - until Tesla proved them all wrong.

    They'll all catch up eventually, or die.

    And there may still be a use for H2 in some areas, like heavy freight, so long as we can afford the 3 to 4 fold increase in leccy needed v's BEV's.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • markudman
    • By markudman 18th Apr 18, 6:00 PM
    • 280 Posts
    • 163 Thanks
    markudman
    Too early for them to be mainstream, I done a electric car course, and there is only about 1200 mechanics trained to work on them, it is basically a big battery and a motor, but touching it it the wrong place will kill you, so not yet safe for your average home mechanic just yet, I'm talking from a technical point of view.
    We may not win by protesting, but if we donít protest we will lose.
    If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 19th Apr 18, 6:48 AM
    • 7,449 Posts
    • 11,921 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Too early for them to be mainstream, I done a electric car course, and there is only about 1200 mechanics trained to work on them, it is basically a big battery and a motor, but touching it it the wrong place will kill you, so not yet safe for your average home mechanic just yet, I'm talking from a technical point of view.
    Originally posted by markudman
    I suppose it'll all scale up proportionately, but the reduced maintenance with EV's may mean that there will never be as many mechanics/service centers as we see with ICE's.

    The biggest losers will be the main dealership network, which might not be needed anymore, especially given the better profits that a manufacturer can make selling cars to the public at retail, rather than to dealers at wholesale.

    Certainly a lot of change to come, whatever happens.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 19th Apr 18, 12:41 PM
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    almillar
    On the old 30 kWh car I could get 5 miles per kWh around town
    What was the outside temperature at the time? You need to test like-for-like. As an EV driver you must be acutely aware of the effect that battery pack temperature will have on range - I would say as a general guide you can only go 2/3 or 3/4 as far in the winter as in summer.

    Also for all that people complained about the looks of Leaf1, it was, at least, aerodynamic.
    it is basically a big battery and a motor, but touching it it the wrong place will kill you
    A 12v battery in an ICE can happily kill you. Shorting a traction battery in an EV will just make the corpse crispier. But I'll accept there are more places this can happen on an EV. You need to accept however that there are so many risks removed though - flammable liquids, exposed fans, fuel injectors, hot surfaces, horrible used oil etc.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 19th Apr 18, 5:58 PM
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    Martyn1981
    EV sales keep going up in the UK, hitting 2% of sales.

    2% is small, but suggests the genie is out of the bottle now, so no going back. Roll on the quiet revolution.

    UK drives into e-vehicle fast lane with 11% sales rise

    Sales of electric cars in the UK have risen 11% on last year, putting the country in the premier league of those ditching petrol and diesel engines, though it is still miles behind Norway and China.
    In the UK, e-vehicle sales reached 14,084 units in the first quarter of 2018. Plug-in hybrid vehicles accounted for 71% of the sales. The market share of electric vehicles increased from 1.5% a year ago to 2%.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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