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  • FIRST POST
    • Jonamora
    • By Jonamora 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Jonamora
    Electric cars
    • #1
    • 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    Electric cars 24th Jan 17 at 5:11 PM
    Just wanted people's opinions on buying an electric car?

    Before long all cars will be electric and therfore is it best to sell petrol car at full value and invest in electric car.

    I don't want to start a new finance deals for 4 years and be complete but then left with and cat nobody wants or has resale value because all are electric.....thoughts

    Jonathan
Page 46
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Feb 18, 11:55 AM
    • 6,866 Posts
    • 11,113 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Interesting to see that BMW and VW are also looking to lock in cobalt supplies for the medium term. I think they may be getting serious about EV's.

    BMW: Close To 10-Year Lithium + Cobalt Supply Deal ó Is This Just A Response To News That Tesla Is Locking In Supply Deals?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Feb 18, 12:02 PM
    • 17,369 Posts
    • 15,703 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Do you have a link for those figures?
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I'm working on the basis that Toyota know.

    Battery capacity
    https://www.toyota.co.uk/car-configurator/prius#carconfig/engine_grades/
    https://www.toyota.co.uk/car-configurator/prius-plug-in#carconfig/engine_grades/
    Click on "Engines", "View All Features", then open up the "Engine" tab and look at the last line for battery capacities.

    Range is about half-way down...
    https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/prius-plugin/index.json
    • MaxPerwer
    • By MaxPerwer 12th Feb 18, 12:05 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    MaxPerwer
    Personally it's a long time until I'll invest. The range isn't long enough to be convenient for me as I like to drive abroad skiing. As a run around a little Renault Twizy is great! Rented one in the new forest. Good fun for 50 miles.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Feb 18, 12:08 PM
    • 6,866 Posts
    • 11,113 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    I'm working on the basis that Toyota know.

    Battery capacity
    https://www.toyota.co.uk/car-configurator/prius#carconfig/engine_grades/
    https://www.toyota.co.uk/car-configurator/prius-plug-in#carconfig/engine_grades/
    Click on "Engines", "View All Features", then open up the "Engine" tab and look at the last line for battery capacities.

    Range is about half-way down...
    https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/prius-plugin/index.json
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Those are Ah figures, where are you getting the kWh figures from? What is the voltage?

    Edit - I've found reference to 201V, so that would suggest 1.3kWh for the non plug-in, and 5kWh for the plug-in, but that seems a little low, so it may have changed.

    Further edit, I believe the new bigger battery is 8.8kWh, a doubling from the old 4.4kWh.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 12-02-2018 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Added an edit
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Feb 18, 12:43 PM
    • 17,369 Posts
    • 15,703 Thanks
    AdrianC
    My apologies - you're right. "Electrickery thingies per hour"
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 12th Feb 18, 12:57 PM
    • 4,140 Posts
    • 5,357 Thanks
    zeupater
    My apologies - you're right. "Electrickery thingies per hour"
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    There you go, you're learning ....

    At this rate of progress we'll all expect to see positive posts concerning EVs quite soon! ....



    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Feb 18, 1:00 PM
    • 17,369 Posts
    • 15,703 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Yes, I'm getting ever closer - I clearly just need to let go of those last few shreds of my grasp of reality and technical understanding, and I'll finally be ready to drink from the fountain of eternal vapourware at the shrine of St Elon.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Feb 18, 1:06 PM
    • 6,866 Posts
    • 11,113 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Yes, I'm getting ever closer - I clearly just need to let go of those last few shreds of my grasp of reality and technical understanding, and I'll finally be ready to drink from the fountain of eternal vapourware at the shrine of St Elon.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    If you can post that a 25kWh battery will only give 39 miles of range without all sorts of alarm bells going off in your head, then I'd suggest your current grasp is not the tightest.

    BTW, Elon Musk/Tesla don't build Toyota Prius'.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Feb 18, 1:51 PM
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    AdrianC
    It does demonstrate how easily it is for even those with a clue to get confused between various non-interchangeable and, without additional information, non-comparable units thrown around.

    FWIW, you appear to be correct with the 200ish volt figure. The difference in plug-in figures appears to be that the battery was changed around a year ago.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 12th Feb 18, 2:39 PM
    • 4,140 Posts
    • 5,357 Thanks
    zeupater
    It does demonstrate how easily it is for even those with a clue to get confused between various non-interchangeable and, without additional information, non-comparable units thrown around.

    FWIW, you appear to be correct with the 200ish volt figure. The difference in plug-in figures appears to be that the battery was changed around a year ago.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Hi

    Really ?? .... if an amount of energy is required to move an amount of mass a particular distance then any differential in storage capacity or consumption between systems simply resolves to the relative inefficiencies ... power is power, energy is energy, time is time, mass is mass, velocity is velocity.

    Voltage is only relevant when current is known, current is only relevant when consuming and storage in terms of Ah is only relevant when voltage is known ... that's why storage in terms of Wh is relevant to those with a clue & that's why they don't seem to get confused quite as often as those without ....

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Feb 18, 2:41 PM
    • 17,369 Posts
    • 15,703 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Really ?? .... if an amount of energy is required to move an amount of mass a particular distance then any differential in storage capacity or consumption between systems simply resolves to the relative inefficiencies ... power is power, energy is energy, time is time, mass is mass, velocity is velocity.

    Voltage is only relevant when current is known, current is only relevant when consuming and storage in terms of Ah is only relevant when voltage is known ... that's why storage in terms of Wh is relevant to those with a clue & that's why they don't see to get confused quite as often as those without ....
    Originally posted by zeupater
    And why Toyota's spec sheet quoting Ah battery figures (without voltage) is seemingly designed to trip the unwary.

    (BTW, you don't seem to have realised you just agreed with me. Sorry 'bout that.)
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 12th Feb 18, 3:35 PM
    • 4,140 Posts
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    zeupater
    ... I'm also not sure that the Prius engine charges the battery in a comparative way to a range extender - instead I believe it adds some charge to the batt if in high gear and driving steadily in the torque sweet spot ..... plus of course brake re-gen.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Hi

    The Prius drivetrain delivers power directly from the ICE & the electric motor, and has the ability to use mechanical energy to drive the electric motor as a generator to recharge the battery, either under braking or when motive conditions allow ... you can force the car into EV mode if you want, but the car handles the management of which motors to use in what combination perfectly well if left to do it's own thing ...

    Vehicles such as the Ampera simply use an engine which isn't connected to the vehicles transmission to generate electricity to charge batteries and power the electric motors ... from memory when we tested one out, the engine only cuts in when battery charge is below 20%(?)

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Feb 18, 3:41 PM
    • 6,866 Posts
    • 11,113 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    And why Toyota's spec sheet quoting Ah battery figures (without voltage) is seemingly designed to trip the unwary.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    That's irrelevant.

    Anyone who has read up on EV's, or read the comments posted on this thread by EV'ers, would not have posted 25kWh & 39 miles without, as I said, alarm bells going off in their mind. Only those with false and preconceived negativity would have let that slide unnoticed.

    Perhaps if you took just a little bit of time to learn, and dare I say, enjoy the topic, rather than trying (poorly) to criticise it at each and every turn, you wouldn't be wrong each and every time.

    Perhaps, had you watched the EST's vids designed as an introduction to EV's, rather than simply attacking them, sight unseen, we wouldn't be going round in ever decreasing circles all the time.

    BTW, please don't attack Toyota for your mistake (initially, and secondary - when you directed me to the pages), you read Ah as kWh, nobody made you do it. I'm not an electrician, I'm not an EV'er, and I have no battery knowledge nor experience, but I had no trouble spotting Ah next to the 6.5 & 25.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Feb 18, 3:45 PM
    • 6,866 Posts
    • 11,113 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Hi

    Vehicles such as the Ampera simply use an engine which isn't connected to the vehicles transmission to generate electricity to charge batteries and power the electric motors ... from memory when we tested one out, the engine only cuts in when battery charge is below 20%(?)

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Hiya, if you are interested Jonny Smith (for fully charged) has just reviewed (more of a test drive) the new London taxi which has the small Volvo engine range extender on board.

    London Black Cab TX | Fully Charged
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 12th Feb 18, 3:49 PM
    • 4,140 Posts
    • 5,357 Thanks
    zeupater
    And why Toyota's spec sheet quoting Ah battery figures (without voltage) is seemingly designed to trip the unwary.

    (BTW, you don't seem to have realised you just agreed with me. Sorry 'bout that.)
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Hi

    However, in not realising the fundamental mistake made you must classify yourself as being 'unwary', therefore no, I don't follow how we'd be in agreement at all .... others didn't make the same mistake, possibly because they actually had a clue as to what they were posting about at the time ....

    Electricity will provide a vast proportion of the automotive energy requirements in the not too distant future, it's just something that we all need to get our head around as opposed to burying them in the sand & maintaining a pretence to self & others that it's not happening! ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Feb 18, 3:49 PM
    • 6,866 Posts
    • 11,113 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Honda teams up with Good Energy to trial domestic V2G technology

    Carmaker Honda is working with green energy supplier Good Energy and Salford University to investigate how vehicle-to-grid (V2G) technology could stabilise the national grid and cut costs for households.

    The researchers, working in partnership with smart energy firm Upside Energy, will examine energy flows around a normal home that uses an electric car, to investigate how car batteries could be used by the grid to store and export energy in response to national demand.

    The project - announced last week and dubbed 'HAVEN' - will be based at Salford University's Energy House. The test home is the only one of its kind in the UK, and can simulate energy generation and use at different times of day and in different climates.

    It will assess how well V2G technology can work with homes already using solar panels and batteries to generate and store their own energy, with the aim of developing the business case for V2G technology. As well as helping to manage peaks and troughs in national demand, V2G technology could also help householders earn extra cash by adapting their energy use patterns, the researchers argue.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • maxmycardagain
    • By maxmycardagain 12th Feb 18, 6:53 PM
    • 4,563 Posts
    • 3,716 Thanks
    maxmycardagain
    Go on Youtube and search for "electric car conversions"

    there are DIYer's making some quite good conversions

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqy-ZJSR0Yw&t=590s
    Dont worry, be happy
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Feb 18, 8:02 AM
    • 6,866 Posts
    • 11,113 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Interesting numbers from Norway, predicting a 6% increase in leccy demand for 100% EV's.

    Norway Ready For 100% EVs By 2025 ó But Please Donít Charge On Thursday Nights

    ďThe power grid will probably cope, because even though the number of electric cars increase, electricity consumption is increasing at a slower rate. Even when all cars run on electricity, it will only increase electricity consumption in Norway by about 6%, and if charging is done intelligently, the load at peak will only rise a few percent. Itís actually worst on Thursdays, so please donít charge your EVs on Thursday nights.Ē
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Coastalwatch
    • By Coastalwatch 13th Feb 18, 8:44 AM
    • 60 Posts
    • 85 Thanks
    Coastalwatch
    Not sure if I'm posting this on the correct board but have struggled to find anything more appropriate. I've an ageing deisel powered Ford Focus(ten years 75k miles) which has been brilliant but am thinking to replace. Electric(second hand) seems a possible choice especially as we have two vehicles, so can use the other for any long distances. We are retired with a mix of local journeys for school run etc and longer distances for holidays etc. I'm also keen on the idea of being self sufficient in generating electricity and considering combining the two. Our bungalow has roof of some 50 sq metres with a 22 degree pitch and being 20 degrees east of south facing. I'm thinking of filling the entire roof with panels in order to generate the max I can. On a good day in summer it could return 35kwh so I don't see a problem in supplying houehold needs(7k/day) and keeping the EV topped up. Am seeking quotations for systems of 4k only and the max that can be acheived also. Presumably I'd still get the FIT and export returns on the larger system so it would appear to me to be a sound financial investment. Am I looking through rose tinted glasses?
    Last edited by Coastalwatch; 13-02-2018 at 8:47 AM.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 13th Feb 18, 9:08 AM
    • 2,864 Posts
    • 1,156 Thanks
    NigeWick
    If Toyota are only getting 39 miles from a 25kWh batt, then they need to have a chat with Nissan, who get far far more.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Or Hyundai. Somebody on a different forum reckons to get 4.3 miles per kWh from his Ioniq at 70mph on motorways.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
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