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  • FIRST POST
    • Jonamora
    • By Jonamora 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Jonamora
    Electric cars
    • #1
    • 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    Electric cars 24th Jan 17 at 5:11 PM
    Just wanted people's opinions on buying an electric car?

    Before long all cars will be electric and therfore is it best to sell petrol car at full value and invest in electric car.

    I don't want to start a new finance deals for 4 years and be complete but then left with and cat nobody wants or has resale value because all are electric.....thoughts

    Jonathan
Page 102
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 9th Aug 18, 9:23 AM
    • 2,347 Posts
    • 11,793 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Gearboxes?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Transmission then.... Unless you've got a motor on each wheel (like the original Porsche designs) then there must be something to transfer the motor rotation to the driven axle(s). But a less complex construction and as said before - has been in use in other applications - trams and trolleybuses for decades. Which makes me think - there are 70 or so all-electric buses on the streets of London right now which are coming up to 2/3 years old. Wonder how they are doing for maintenance costs?
    Womble #7 - Running Total £27.97 $4.28 €6.64 S//0.10 (10 Ukrainian kopiyki) Bds$0.10 A$0.25 NZ$0.55 C$0.91 S$0.20 zl0.12 (Polish zloty) LB0.22 (Bulgarian lev) ISKr5.0 DKr1.0 CHF0.60 R0.10 (Rand not Rupees) KD0.05 (Kuwaiti dinar) MDL0.25 (Moldovan leu) YUM 1.0 (Yugoslav dinar)
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 9th Aug 18, 9:27 AM
    • 15,321 Posts
    • 21,207 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Gearboxes?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Yes, gearboxes. Most EV have some sort of reduction gear between the motor and the wheels. The I-Pace, for example has two single speed epicyclic gearboxes.
    “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 9th Aug 18, 9:54 AM
    • 11,858 Posts
    • 13,831 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    So why does the Tesla Model S only score 50% in the 2017 Whatcar reliability survey? Only Land Rover and Jeep were worse.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom

    Cherrypicking one car with an issue doesn't remove the fact that those components arent there to go wrong, on all EVs and will never need maintenance or replacement, which costs money and is a source of profit for dealers and manufacturers. That was the point of my post regarding dealers and why they dont like EVs.


    I dont know what the issue is with the S, or if its been fixed now, the problem could simply be one common issue, for example ISTR that the steering box has a component shared with (ironically) JLR that is faulty and now subject to a recall but Tesla appear to have dragged their feet acknowledging and then sorting that out. And whatever the issue is with the S, you'll never need to buy spark plugs, exhaust,and so on (back to my list) for a model S.



    So it would have been much worse if it had all the moving and replaceable parts an ICE car has !!
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 09-08-2018 at 10:04 AM.
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 9th Aug 18, 10:37 AM
    • 7,938 Posts
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    buglawton
    As has been pointed out, electric motors have around longer than practical IC engines so you would think that the bugs would have been worked out by now. The rest of the drivetrain: gearboxes, differentials, driveshafts etc. are shared with IC vehicles, so not much room for excuses there.

    To be fair to Tesla, a lot of the reported reliability issues in the Whatcar survey were nothing to do with the powertrain and could have just as easily occurred on a conventional car.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    That's why I used the term drivetrain not motor. It really is something a like a 50 vs 2000 part count comparison. Pistons, tappets, belts, engine fan, drive shafts, differential, catalytic converter,DPF, plugs...

    Meanwhile electrical motors probably are already more reliable that ICs, just maybe not the one in your vacuum cleaner.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Aug 18, 10:54 AM
    • 7,828 Posts
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    Martyn1981
    It is possible, although I'm thinking of the likely sharp drop in the value of the car as the battery approaches the end of its useful life... whatever that is deemed to be. Of course, there may be a market for old cars with limited range. They would remain useful for short commutes etc.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    It all depends what the reduction in battery capacity is. If it only drops to 80% capacity over 10+yrs, then it would still be perfectly fine for those people looking for a range of 80% of that the original owner wanted/needed.

    If the decline to 80% is slow and steady, then it probably won't have much effect on the value of the car, certainly not a sharp drop.

    BTW, gearboxes? A single fixed reduction gear is nowhere near as complex as a 5, 6, 7+ forward and reverse gear transmission.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 9th Aug 18, 11:07 AM
    • 7,938 Posts
    • 4,633 Thanks
    buglawton
    There's a charming and simple conversion available for some classic cars
    eg the Morris Minors pictured here http://londonelectriccars.com/
    I remember reading an article that the entire conversion from London Electric Cars costs around £12k, but you must supply a prime example of the car, mind.
    And the drive train is still mechanical after the motor. But that should be taken care of for a long time to come by enthusiast clubs that can advise on specialist parts suppliers.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 9th Aug 18, 11:24 AM
    • 15,321 Posts
    • 21,207 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Cherrypicking one car with an issue doesn't remove the fact that those components arent there to go wrong, on all EVs and will never need maintenance or replacement, which costs money and is a source of profit for dealers and manufacturers.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    That reminds me of a 1980's advert for the 2CV...

    “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 9th Aug 18, 11:44 AM
    • 4,435 Posts
    • 5,935 Thanks
    zeupater
    Me too. But the main issue of the battery should have an indicator of its health - eg: the 12 bars in a new Leaf, and second hand ones advertised as 11 bars or 10. As long as the trade doesn't learn how to "clock" these you should be able to buy with some confidence..
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    Hi

    Our battery pack has an optional but free condition health check every time it's serviced ... the manufacturer uses the resultant data to gauge anticipated lifespans in the field against design criteria and in return they extend the warranty on the battery ...


    The process is pretty quick & it would make sense for it to eventually become a requirement to note the battery condition within the MOT process, in which case there should always be a 'recent' report on the condition ... it's also likely (because it make commercial sense) that garages & dealers selling pre-owned EVs will be required to provide a battery status report prior to sale ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 9th Aug 18, 12:07 PM
    • 7,938 Posts
    • 4,633 Thanks
    buglawton
    That reminds me of a 1980's advert for the 2CV...
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    Used to have one, once transported an upright chest of drawers with back seats out & roof rolled back. Memories of open top driving in the Lake District.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 9th Aug 18, 12:23 PM
    • 2,958 Posts
    • 1,270 Thanks
    NigeWick
    it's highly likely that there'll be a number of major players that don't currently exist or readily come to mind!
    Originally posted by zeupater
    Young Master Dyson is supposed to be putting money into developing a BEV. Mr Fisker reckons he's got solid state batteries. Tesla may actually keep going and produce large numbers of BEVs.

    "Hoover beats as it sweeps as it cleans." I wonder what a Dysonmobeel will do?
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 9th Aug 18, 12:38 PM
    • 2,958 Posts
    • 1,270 Thanks
    NigeWick
    Me too. But the main issue of the battery should have an indicator of its health - eg: the 12 bars in a new Leaf, and second hand ones advertised as 11 bars or 10. As long as the trade doesn't learn how to "clock" these you should be able to buy with some confidence..
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    There's software one can plumb into the car's diagnostics via the OBD2 port for the Leaf at least. Gives more exact readings than the vehicle's own displays.

    I expect there will be companies offering refurbished battery packs in a few years, just like recon engines from the olden days.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • almillar
    • By almillar 9th Aug 18, 12:53 PM
    • 7,670 Posts
    • 3,147 Thanks
    almillar
    There's software one can plumb into the car's diagnostics via the OBD2 port for the Leaf at least. Gives more exact readings than the vehicle's own displays.

    Yep, and Zoe mentioned above. I've personally done this, with the same dongle and tablet, and different software on a Zoe (CanZE), Leaf (LeafSpy) and Soul EV (Torque Pro with custom PIDS). And also Nissan 350Z with Torque Pro.
    • ed110220
    • By ed110220 13th Aug 18, 9:14 AM
    • 1,063 Posts
    • 560 Thanks
    ed110220
    Cherrypicking one car with an issue doesn't remove the fact that those components arent there to go wrong, on all EVs and will never need maintenance or replacement, which costs money and is a source of profit for dealers and manufacturers. That was the point of my post regarding dealers and why they dont like EVs.


    I dont know what the issue is with the S, or if its been fixed now, the problem could simply be one common issue, for example ISTR that the steering box has a component shared with (ironically) JLR that is faulty and now subject to a recall but Tesla appear to have dragged their feet acknowledging and then sorting that out. And whatever the issue is with the S, you'll never need to buy spark plugs, exhaust,and so on (back to my list) for a model S.



    So it would have been much worse if it had all the moving and replaceable parts an ICE car has !!
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    It's also a little misleading too as as far as I'm aware the Tesla's problems are mostly of the "irritating" kind and not even anything to do with the drive train. When people talk of "reliability issues" you normally think of cars failing to start or breaking down, not of software glitches or other annoyances which don't prevent you using the car.

    For example a friend of mine has an S and he needs to get the door handles fixed as they don't retract flush now. Nothing to do with it being an EV and can't really be compared with a breakdown, but would be counted as a "reliability issue".
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Aug 18, 12:41 PM
    • 7,828 Posts
    • 12,458 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Not new news, just the obvious need to increase battery production, and for the 'old boys' to get on with battery deals/partnerships.

    Electric Car Growth Produces Battery Shortages, Carmakers Can’t Match Production With Demand
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 13th Aug 18, 3:16 PM
    • 15,321 Posts
    • 21,207 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    It's also a little misleading too as as far as I'm aware the Tesla's problems are mostly of the "irritating" kind and not even anything to do with the drive train. When people talk of "reliability issues" you normally think of cars failing to start or breaking down, not of software glitches or other annoyances which don't prevent you using the car.

    For example a friend of mine has an S and he needs to get the door handles fixed as they don't retract flush now. Nothing to do with it being an EV and can't really be compared with a breakdown, but would be counted as a "reliability issue".
    Originally posted by ed110220
    I agree, wonky cup holders aren't what I call a reliability issue but it is the same for all the cars on the list, ICE or EV.

    "Nearly 38% of Tesla Model S owners reported faults in our most recent reliability survey, with issues split fairly evenly between bodywork, interior trim and the cars' electric motors.

    Other areas cited by Tesla owners are leaking cooling pumps for the battery pack,


    Source"
    That is quite a high proportion of owners having problems with the cars' electric motors. Presumably, they are referring to the drive motors, but you never know.
    Last edited by Gloomendoom; 13-08-2018 at 3:23 PM.
    “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
    • Soulginge
    • By Soulginge 14th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Soulginge
    There is nothing that would convince me to buy an electric car right now, certainly not a Tesla. Far too overpriced for a glorified iPad on wheels that creaks like an old bed frame. I was stung once before by listening to so called "experts" and bought a diesel car that, by the time I came to have to move it on, had a resale value no where near the petrol version because of stories of jacked up tax prices for diesel cars.

    The Infrastructure for electric cars just is not there at the moment, and won't be for a good long time. I happen to live in a small block of flats where there is no scope whatsoever for charging an electric vehicle overnight unless I run a cable from my bedroom window. There certainly won't be a charging point in the car park any time soon and you can bet that if there was, there would be no guarantee of being able to park in the correct space and I'd be screwed.

    No chance.
    • jeepjunkie
    • By jeepjunkie 14th Aug 18, 12:44 PM
    • 1,489 Posts
    • 1,376 Thanks
    jeepjunkie
    There is nothing that would convince me to buy an electric car right now, certainly not a Tesla. Far too overpriced for a glorified iPad on wheels that creaks like an old bed frame. I was stung once before by listening to so called "experts" and bought a diesel car that, by the time I came to have to move it on, had a resale value no where near the petrol version because of stories of jacked up tax prices for diesel cars.

    The Infrastructure for electric cars just is not there at the moment, and won't be for a good long time. I happen to live in a small block of flats where there is no scope whatsoever for charging an electric vehicle overnight unless I run a cable from my bedroom window. There certainly won't be a charging point in the car park any time soon and you can bet that if there was, there would be no guarantee of being able to park in the correct space and I'd be screwed.

    No chance.
    Originally posted by Soulginge

    Really!?


    My electric car was a shade over £4k, working out ~£2k after disposing of the old problematic ICE.


    I have no loans, battery leases, milage limits etc to tie me into to dealer servicing, warranty etc.


    Where I live there are way more FREE charge points [L2 and rapid] than petrol stations.


    Despite being considered a short range BEV I drive long distances as one can charge on route


    No vehicle tax/licence to pay annually either


    Pretty much free motoring so what's not to like.


    Right now is a sweet spot for EVs so I'm filling my boots...


    If it all ends badly with failed inverter or something costing silly money I'll still be quids in, spend £1.5k to £2k a year in fuel, as it will have paid for itself shortly and i'm sure some of the bits will fetch a nice price


    Cheers
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Aug 18, 1:04 PM
    • 7,828 Posts
    • 12,458 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    There is nothing that would convince me to buy an electric car right now, certainly not a Tesla. Far too overpriced for a glorified iPad on wheels that creaks like an old bed frame. I was stung once before by listening to so called "experts" and bought a diesel car that, by the time I came to have to move it on, had a resale value no where near the petrol version because of stories of jacked up tax prices for diesel cars.

    The Infrastructure for electric cars just is not there at the moment, and won't be for a good long time. I happen to live in a small block of flats where there is no scope whatsoever for charging an electric vehicle overnight unless I run a cable from my bedroom window. There certainly won't be a charging point in the car park any time soon and you can bet that if there was, there would be no guarantee of being able to park in the correct space and I'd be screwed.

    No chance.
    Originally posted by Soulginge
    I think all of your points have been thoroughly mythbusted already on this thread, though it would be a long read, but perhaps worth it to find out how it all works and allay your many fears.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 14th Aug 18, 1:52 PM
    • 7,938 Posts
    • 4,633 Thanks
    buglawton
    Is the idea that local authorities in the UK won't be providing any serious on street charging for flat dwellers and endless rows of Victorian terraced houses with no driveways, for the next 10 years at least, a myth?
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 14th Aug 18, 2:54 PM
    • 8,624 Posts
    • 7,920 Thanks
    Herzlos
    Is the idea that local authorities in the UK won't be providing any serious on street charging for flat dwellers and endless rows of Victorian terraced houses with no driveways, for the next 10 years at least, a myth?
    Originally posted by buglawton

    That'll be one of the hardest ones to do, but realistically there's no reason that you couldn't have a charging point available for every proper on/off street parking space (maybe not for cars up on pavements, in unused ground, double parked, etc). Even if not council run, some private company would take advantage of the opportunity sooner or later.

    Failing that, there's likely to be a high probability of finding a charger at the other end (work car parks, supermarkets, multi-stories, train stations). Then there'd be charging stations for people that still fall through the gaps.


    At some point once critical mass kicks in, it'll be harder to fill up on petrol/diesel than electricity.


    There are already mobile charging facilities for those that run out of charge.
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