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  • FIRST POST
    • engjan
    • By engjan 9th Dec 16, 6:23 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 0Thanks
    engjan
    Changing to Joint Tenants
    • #1
    • 9th Dec 16, 6:23 PM
    Changing to Joint Tenants 9th Dec 16 at 6:23 PM
    My partner and I wish to change from tenants in common to joint tenants. The fact that we were registered as tenants in common when we bought our property was essentially a mistake which we have just lived with but now we want to put this right.

    But this is not proving to be simple. I went to my local solicitor who told me that they could do it but I could save the (minimum) 250 +VAT she would charge and do it myself because it is very easy, all I had to do was complete form RX3 and (she thought) AP1. She advised I call the Land Registry helpline which I did and they told me I needed to complete RX3 and ST5 and confirmed nothing else was required. I duly completed the forms and sent them off.

    Then I received a letter from the Land Registry saying they I also need to send them 'a certified copy of a new trust deed showing that everyone with a share or interest in the property agrees to the change'. They suggested a conveyancer could help me draw this up.

    I tried to get some advice from an online conveyancer but the response I got was that they thought the ST5 should be enough. So I googled a bit and found very little information - it seems that not many people do this. I did find one site selling a 'Declaration as to Beneficial Joint Ownership' template form for this very purpose, but I've no idea if this is a deed of trust or just a substitute for a ST5.

    I'd really like to hear from anyone who has experience of doing this either themselves or for a client and can help me understand exactly what I need to do. With so much conflicting advice I'm not sure who to trust.

    Please help!
Page 2
    • Shiralco
    • By Shiralco 20th May 17, 8:17 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Shiralco
    Deed of Trust
    Engjan, did you manage to find a template or suitable wording for a 'deed of trust'?

    We are currently in the position you described last December - we wish to convert from 'tenants in common' to 'joint tenants'. We have completed an RX3 and ST5 but are told we require a 'new or amended deed of trust'. Land Registry say they cannot help us with this and we should seek legal advice, but we would rather do it ourselves if possible.

    Any advice would be welcomed.
    • Beckylou88
    • By Beckylou88 23rd Jan 18, 8:09 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Beckylou88
    Hi, I am in the same situation and would like to move from common to joint.
    Can anyone advise what I need to do? What process and forms need following? Thanks All!
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 23rd Jan 18, 11:53 PM
    • 25,773 Posts
    • 15,227 Thanks
    xylophone
    would like to move from common to joint.
    https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-tenants-in-common-to-joint-tenants
    • judy7007
    • By judy7007 12th Jul 18, 12:12 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    judy7007
    We want to change from tenants in common to joint tenants as if we are joint tenants and hold no other property or bank accounts in single names we are under the impression we will not need to apply for probate.

    We are having big difficulty in achieving this change. There is no trust deed. I can!!!8217;t get the same answer from any 2 solicitors. We actually want to do this ourselves but so far it seems to be impossible.

    Any help most appreciated.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 12th Jul 18, 12:23 PM
    • 25,773 Posts
    • 15,227 Thanks
    xylophone
    https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-tenants-in-common-to-joint-tenants
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Jul 18, 12:44 PM
    • 32,412 Posts
    • 19,474 Thanks
    getmore4less
    We want to change from tenants in common to joint tenants as if we are joint tenants and hold no other property or bank accounts in single names we are under the impression we will not need to apply for probate.

    We are having big difficulty in achieving this change. There is no trust deed. I can!!!8217;t get the same answer from any 2 solicitors. We actually want to do this ourselves but so far it seems to be impossible.

    Any help most appreciated.
    Originally posted by judy7007
    Probate is not needed for TIC on first death.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 12th Jul 18, 12:54 PM
    • 25,773 Posts
    • 15,227 Thanks
    xylophone
    Probate is not needed for TIC on first death.
    See below.



    https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/property-and-bank-accounts

    If the property was owned under a tenancy in common; (common owners in Scotland and coparceners in Northern Ireland), 2 or more people owned the home either in equal shares or a defined percentage.

    The person's will (or the law if there's no will) decides who inherits their share.


    When a grant of representation may not be needed
    You don't normally need a grant if the estate either:

    passes to the surviving spouse or civil partner because it was held in joint names, for example a savings account
    doesn't include land, property or shares

    https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance


    https://www.finalduties.co.uk/joint-tenancy-vs-tenants-common/


    In these cases it is easy to see why someone would change the way they own a property. However you should consider how this change can affect the administration of your estate when you pass away. When a property is owned as tenants in common there is no survivorship clause, this means you can pass your percentage of the property to whomever you choose in your will. However whether you choose to leave it to your spouse or someone else in both cases the property will need probate in order to pass your share onto your chosen beneficiary. This is because your share of the property is a significant asset in your sole name.

    Also https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/dealing-with-the-financial-affairs-of-someone-who-has-died/#do_you_always_need_probate_or_letters_of_administ ration

    However, if the partners are tenants in common, the surviving partner does not automatically inherit the other person's share. Probate or letters of administration will be needed
    Last edited by xylophone; 12-07-2018 at 1:03 PM. Reason: correcting number string error
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Jul 18, 1:09 PM
    • 32,412 Posts
    • 19,474 Thanks
    getmore4less
    The land reg rep has clarified this many times

    You do not need a grant if there is any surviving legal owner.

    All those links are wrong the land reg will deal with the change in legal ownership without a grant.
    • judy7007
    • By judy7007 16th Jul 18, 5:49 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    judy7007
    It seems I have been given wrong information along the way and indeed a Grant of Probate will not be needed on the first death (everything else in joint names). It still makes sense to me to remove the restriction using forms RX3 and ST5 to avoid any further sales difficulties (surviving spouse or beneficiary when we have both died).

    I had my first attempt at these forms returned and, never one to give up, I am going to try and submit them again. A solicitor quoted me almost 400 to do this so I bought a template for 13 (changing from tenants in common to joint tenants). Really hoping all will go smoothly this time. It just seems it could avoid any possible hassles in the future.
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