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    • dandy-candy
    • By dandy-candy 14th Oct 16, 10:12 PM
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    Really interesting documentary on YouTube oldstyles might like
    • #1
    • 14th Oct 16, 10:12 PM
    Really interesting documentary on YouTube oldstyles might like 14th Oct 16 at 10:12 PM
    I've just watched a fascinating documentary from 1969 filmed in a slum area of Nottingham called St Anns. Seeing how the folks lived you would think it was more like the 1920s - coal fire, 3 kids in a bed, outside loo, no bathroom just a zinc bath hung on the wall etc. Here's a link if anyone else want to watch it

    The ladies even go to a wash house to do their laundry - I'd never seen or heard of such a place! Really worth watching.
Page 2
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 17th Oct 16, 9:10 AM
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    Thanks for comments re those books. I think I might look them up. Interested to see that, amongst the points made was wondering how aware of their relative position the people were. The 1960s is the last decade, I feel, where one can see such widescale imposed poverty - ie limited ability to choose family size and having lots of "mouths to feed" because of it.

    My father taught me that lesson well - ie "Big families mean poverty - even for those on decent income" - from his own experience growing up. He drummed that message into me.

    I'm interested in it being that area of the country - ie St Ann's in Nottingham. Barely remembered - but I did stay there in a commune very briefly only a few years after that. It wasn't "full immersion" - as it subsequently emerged the people running it probably knew they would have a way out of it in the future and duly got it. But it was clearly a very poor area.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 17-10-2016 at 9:13 AM.

    • Jackieboy
    • By Jackieboy 17th Oct 16, 9:11 AM
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    It's a shame Florence that you suffered that less then a generation ago. In the 70's I walked the 3 mile to school and back, one winter in just sandals and a cardigan cos we didn't have the money for school shoes and my coat was stolen in school

    Do watch the link.

    It's very telling

    Nothing has changed really in the 40 years that has passed
    Originally posted by suki1964
    I don't really think that's true - benefits are considerably more generous these days.
    • suki1964
    • By suki1964 17th Oct 16, 9:24 AM
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    I don't really think that's true - benefits are considerably more generous these days.
    Originally posted by Jackieboy

    What I was alluding to were that those living below the poverty line back then still had to justify having a TV and those that were struggling thought the ones claiming assistance were better of then themselves having to work a 50 hour week to make ends meet
    if you lend someone 20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it
    • Siebrie
    • By Siebrie 17th Oct 16, 9:43 AM
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    I grew up with all the mod cons, thank goodness, but my auntie lived on a farm where they still had a bucket under a shelf for a loo.
    The neighbours I have now, in this village, still have an outside loo! Attached to the house, but you have to leave the house through the kitchen and walk across to the other side of the terrace. The door is only half-height, so you can see feet and head when the person is standing. (I can't see it, but the people inside the neighbours' house can...).

    When we were househunting in the Brussels suburbs (only 6 years ago....), most houses we could afford had an outside loo, no bathroom, no kitchen. Very spacious rooms, but no kitchen. Some had put a gas range and freestanding sink in one of the downstairs rooms, a few had a freestanding shower unit.
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    • Doveling
    • By Doveling 17th Oct 16, 9:47 AM
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    Everything is relative to the current society in which we live.

    Shelters new acceptable living standards report is now out.

    Everything changes but everything stays the same
    Not dim .....just living in soft focus
    • JackieO
    • By JackieO 17th Oct 16, 1:38 PM
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    It would be a facinating film to see how the families concerned have progressed since the film was made. Catherine, the housewife was 20 then and so she would now be 66 now and a pensioner, hopefully she is a darned sight better off today, even on a pension, than back then when she was struggling to make ends meet. She seemed to accept that what she had was all she was going to achieve.
    Quot Libros,Quam Breve Tempus. 2018
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    • culpepper
    • By culpepper 17th Oct 16, 4:23 PM
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    I can't imagine venturing outside / weeing in a bucket in the middle of the night

    Originally posted by VfM4meplse
    I expect most people did what we did and had a chamber pot under every bed for night time use.

    When we married in the mid 80's, we lived in one of a row of possibly farm workers cottages and all had their outdoor Loos in the front garden (it was at right angles to the road rather than alongside it).
    Our neighbour still had no indoor facilities and was sometimes met first thing visiting the privy with her Night Soil bucket covered in a cloth .
    • Slowly57
    • By Slowly57 17th Oct 16, 6:55 PM
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    When I was 10 we moved into an Edwardian house which had had all its garden sold for development. Old houses were quite cheap then.

    It had a bathroom indoors, but it also had an outside loo - for the gardener originally! Handy for us when we were playing outside
    Originally posted by maryb
    I think many folks thought having an indoor lav was a bit unhygienic so didn't have one - our first house had a bathroom but the lav was out in the yard. Our new old house has a bathroom and indoorlav - but it is in a little room on its own - not in the bathroom.
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    • suki1964
    • By suki1964 17th Oct 16, 7:05 PM
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    I just had to come back and mention this

    My great aunt Pat who taught me a thing or two about being thrifty lived in the royal borough of Kingston upon Thames

    She had a 2 up 2 down, stairs behind a door to the first floor. A scullery with a cold tap, bath under the worktop and outside loo

    Mum had an ascot installed in the kitchen so there was at least some hot water in the house

    Pat died in 1994 and her house was sold for near on half a million. She left it to a war veterans charity

    Many a happy day I spent there in the 70's
    if you lend someone 20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it
    • Fruball
    • By Fruball 17th Oct 16, 11:00 PM
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    Fascinating read. Thanks to all who've posted.
    • CapricornLass
    • By CapricornLass 18th Oct 16, 4:23 PM
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    My sister (born in 1962) used to go and play with a farmer's daughter, where the main living room was a beaten earth floor.... - so probably about the late sixties.

    My husband's aunt lived in a 2 up and 2 down with a scullery for the kitchen, and an outside loo. They used to come up and use the bath in his parents' council flat once a week. Said flat had no central heating, and my husband's bedroom was so cold that in the winter his mother would use it as a fridge.

    Don't think we know that we are born sometimes!
    Sealed Pot Challenge no 265.
    • CapricornLass
    • By CapricornLass 18th Oct 16, 4:37 PM
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    Actually just thought - we possibly wouldn't know the techniques for getting the most out of the 'technology' of the day that made surviving in the slums easier. Cooking a pudding in a cloth in a pan, anyone? I have done it twice in my life, but I was able to refer to my grandmother's written instructions to my mother as to how to do this.

    They would also seat all sorts of things that we wont touch now - and probably wouldn't know how to cook either. Pigs ears, cheek and tails, half a sheep's head complete with brains. I have a pre-war cookery book from the WI courtesy of my Grandmother, that has a recipe entitiled How To Make A Sheep's Pluck (the lights) Make A Dinner For 5 People For Three Days. Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the breadwinner got the pick/all of the meat/protein that was available, as he had to be strong enough and fit enough to be able to go out and earn.
    Sealed Pot Challenge no 265.
    • JackieO
    • By JackieO 18th Oct 16, 5:41 PM
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    I remember using a home made 'haybox' back in the 1970s when the three day week was on.Basically you brought the stew up to bubbling boiling point then covered it (in my case my home made 'hay box' was my children's toy box with lots of cushions on the bottom and round the casserole pan and on the top I had a duvet pushed down tight to hold the heat in.I left it overnight and in the morning the meat casserole was cooked. I had an oval yellow enamel casserole pan which everyone seemed to own in those days. If the electric went off (as it often dd without warning for three hours) and I needed to reheat my stew I would nip down the road to my friend June's house and bung it in her gas cooker

    We are still firm friends after 47 years of ups and downs of death,divorce,illness,children being broke and unemployment .

    I remember her saying 'It'll never work will it ?'
    but I can remember my late Mum using one when I was a little girl and it did she was so surprised at how tender the meat was and it cost so little to cook with.

    Has anyone else used a 'haybox ' at all ??
    Last edited by JackieO; 19-10-2016 at 8:14 AM.
    Quot Libros,Quam Breve Tempus. 2018
    Running total for four months food only shopping =126.24.Freezer stuff slowly going down at last May totals 31.11 freezer and tinned cupboards are going down nicely
    • thriftwizard
    • By thriftwizard 18th Oct 16, 6:12 PM
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    I remember using a haybox in the 70s strikes too. Mum was working, so quite often I cooked after getting home from school, power or no power! Not to mention the fact that she hated - and still hates - cooking... But she'd hung onto my father's fishing/camping stove throughout the loss of our home and furniture when he died unexpectedly, so we were able to heat things up although we couldn't have cooked for long on it. Haybox cookery was for the weekend - she was a Deaconess so worked weekends as well as her weekday job.

    It stood me in good stead when my friend snaffled a Wonderbag that had been donated to their charity shop, and was about to go into the bins as the sorters thought no-one nowadays would use one, once they'd worked out what it was! It gets used several times a week, to cook up peelings overnight for the chickens, to do casseroles if I think I'm going to be late back & DD2's already using the slow-cooker for some Middle Eastern bean concoction, or to ferry stuff 25 miles to Mum's.

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    • maryb
    • By maryb 18th Oct 16, 7:06 PM
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    I made a thermal cooker stuffed with polystyrene beads and I use it a lot, especially now with autumn coming on and turning to more warming food. But what I really love it for is rice. Twice the volume of water to rice, bring to the boil and leave for half an hour. It always comes out beautifully fluffy, every grain separate
    It doesn't matter if you are a glass half full or half empty sort of person. Keep it topped up! Cheers!
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 18th Oct 16, 7:08 PM
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    Just watched the second episode of "The Victorian Slum" - even more than the first one.

    I was alternating between thinking "A couple of those women are wearing eye make-up - not very authentic" and thinking "Ah! That rather explains the modern day attitudes of some people I hear of/read about that puzzle me rather". Namely that one re the single parent mother who "did a moonlight flit". Puzzled at why the shopkeepers weren't throwing 40 fits at her affecting their lives.

    On the other hand - more understandable the others werent sympathising appropriately with the shopkeepers - because they'd had the "it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good" side of that equation (ie keeping the money they were due to pay her in wages for her sub-contracting).

    Not quite so puzzled at different attitudes to the one I was brought up with "You will pay your way and not owe anyone anything" that my parents brought me up with and I still have. Though I'd still be cursing visibly - and expecting the appropriate sympathy and support if I were in the shopkeepers position - rather than shrugging my shoulders and accepting it.

    I guess attitudes of the great grandparents percolating down the generations helping to explain a way of thinking very different to my own.

    • charlies-aunt
    • By charlies-aunt 18th Oct 16, 10:01 PM
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    Really enjoying the Victorian Slum programme and quite surprised how many things still resonated in my childhood in the late 50's.

    Our family belonged to the Independent Order of Rachabites - a sort of Temperance friendly society which promoted abstinence from alcohol. In return for the payment of very modest weekly "subs", we benefited from health and sickness cover for my dad, an annual summer day trip to the seaside (when most of the village would board coaches for a day out at Mablethorpe and all the children got a stick of rock on the way home) and they also put on a splendid Christmas party for members children. We had to take our own knife, fork, spoon and cup to the party with us - how quaint that seems now - perhaps a throwback to the days when such things were treasured possessions?

    Our house was a post war new build in 1952-53. The kitchen had a large enamelled ranged with a back boiler, side oven and little swing over pan rests for cooking and a huge pantry. Earlier built houses in the lane had no mains water supply - just a tap in the back yard which was spread from the spring and bucketed into the house.

    Happy memories for a child but it must have been grim for Mothers!
    The best things in life aren't things

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    • Butterfly Brain
    • By Butterfly Brain 20th Oct 16, 8:29 PM
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    Butterfly Brain
    Other shows well worth a watch are the coal house, the coal house at war, the 1940's house on you tube
    Then look up poverty in the uk in the 1970's, some really heartbreaking stories on there
    Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones that let in the light
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    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 21st Oct 16, 7:44 AM
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    I was thinking that the 1970s could still have been a pretty poor decade for those who got married in the 1960s for instance - as some unplanned children would have had the chance to turn up before the Pill/abortion of the 1970s came along. So I can understand how a 1960s marriage could still be a pretty poor on - impacting through into the 1970s and maybe even 1980s.

    But now, of course, we've gone from the normal decades of the 1970s and 1980s to the just-about-passable decade of the 1990s and the problems of the early 21st century and I do fear that even some people who are hard-working/taking advantage of our modern-day contraceptives etc could be thrown into poverty for reasons not to do with themselves (eg high housing prices and zero hours contracts in jobs).

    I was just sitting there thinking about the financial situations of people I know (ie middle-aged) and, basically, we've had to have either decently-paid careers or jobs (despite a noticeable number having some sort of help - a house bought for them/an inheritance they could buy a house with/etc). It's a shocking thing to know that if I hadn't had a bit of help (by sheer good luck of "right place right time" in my case) I might be poor. The combination of being single (ie only one income coming in), poor pay and living in a dear city was too much for me to overcome and buy a house - if it hadn't been for that bit of help from good luck.

    I do wonder how I would have managed if I'd been a generation younger and wonder if even people who "plan and try" and don't get any help manage these days unless they get partnered-up and have the skills to have a career instead of jobs.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 21-10-2016 at 7:50 AM.

    • mrsmortenharket
    • By mrsmortenharket 21st Oct 16, 3:02 PM
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    You've just watched that. I love social history.
    I'm not sure that there is poverty around like that today. But there is a severe housing shortage isn't there.
    They were very strong women. I can't imagine anyone lace picking for so long for such a small amount of money nowadays.
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