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  • FIRST POST
    • Fixtrace6
    • By Fixtrace6 1st Aug 16, 4:21 PM
    • 54Posts
    • 54Thanks
    Fixtrace6
    This is now over the 6 year point!!
    • #1
    • 1st Aug 16, 4:21 PM
    This is now over the 6 year point!! 1st Aug 16 at 4:21 PM
    I have received a letter from Vehicle Control Services telling me that "Your account has been passed to our legal team". That legal team is BW Legal.
    I received a pcn in early 2012 at Liverpool Airport. The advice has always been ignore because it happened before October 2012 when new rules came into play.
    I mentioned this on another thread and was advised to start my own thread.
    Originally I was posting in solidarity with someone who is still being hassled after 5 years but someone mentioned they may try MCOL. I looked it up but am not sure what it means.
    I was not driving the car at the time and I know I do not have to give up that information but this MCOL has got my curiosity.
    Has anyone else been recently contacted about a really old pcn? Is it more scraping the bottom of the barrel?
    Last edited by Fixtrace6; 20-10-2018 at 3:36 PM. Reason: It's over the 6 year point
Page 5
    • waamo
    • By waamo 21st Sep 18, 12:51 PM
    • 7,881 Posts
    • 10,748 Thanks
    waamo
    IANAL but I would say that if they slapped a ticket on a car demanding payment that is when it starts.

    Alternatively if it came through the post it seems logical that the date it's received is when the clock starts.

    Either way it isn't your job to prove it. If you assert it is statute barred it is their job to prove it isn't.
    This space for hire.
    • Fixtrace6
    • By Fixtrace6 21st Sep 18, 1:16 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Fixtrace6
    So I will email them quoting that bit from the Limitation Act saying this is now statute barred and they should delete my personal data.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 21st Sep 18, 1:30 PM
    • 4,184 Posts
    • 5,199 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    So I will email them quoting that bit from the Limitation Act saying this is now statute barred and they should delete my personal data.
    Originally posted by Fixtrace6
    not yet , let it ride , then IF they contact you after the "hyperthetical" date you can kick off


    PS: not sure about parking invoices , but in other cases , where you run the 6 yrs , ie gas co , elec co loan co etc , correct , they cannot (without difficulty explaining why to a judge)
    start court action , but they can continue to write to you , any threats of court action should be reported tho
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 21st Sep 18, 8:28 PM
    • 40,604 Posts
    • 90,171 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I believe that the limitation period may be extended if court action has already begun before the six years is up. However, if six years has passed since the date of the alleged event, then they cannot (or at least should not) start court.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 22-09-2018 at 7:18 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Sep 18, 8:42 PM
    • 25,103 Posts
    • 40,494 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I think the sum total of all of the conjecture here is this, if it reaches the court stage, let the Judge determine (after bringing the point to his/her attention), whether this is within the limits of the Limitation Act, or not.

    Otherwise it's just gum-bumping here, short of anyone providing their professional credentials to make the definitive statement! . All IMHO, as ever!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fixtrace6
    • By Fixtrace6 20th Oct 18, 12:25 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Fixtrace6
    Now over 6 years
    Well this is interesting (to me anyway).
    I have just received my 2nd Letter of Claim from bwl (The 1st was in 2016) It looks like the usual LoC’s posted online. It is dated 6 years and 6 weeks after the “breach of contract”. So even if you take into account the date of the issue of the pcn and the 14 days given to pay (it was 14 days then) it is still 3 weeks over the 6 years.
    This letter of claim says it is sent in accordance with the CPRPAP. On the 1st page they say they have been instructed to commence legal action in the form of issuing a claim in the county court if ……response not received before ..21/11/18 (6 years and 11 weeks after the “breach”.)
    In the “Particulars of Debt” section their letter refers to the “breach” and keeps referring to the date of the “breach” which is 6 years and 6 weeks ago.
    Then there is Annex 1. An interesting paragraph here is, “If you don’t have a copy of the agreement “contract” between you and the business ……..you can ask the business to provide you with a copy.” That doesn’t make sense for a pcn. Obviously, another roboclaim. But they have tried to write this letter as if it is specific to me.
    The 3rd bit is a reply form. This says if you don’t reply in 30 days it COULD (my capitals) result in court proceedings. It all ends up with an Income and Expenditure Form.
    I intend to reply with something like this. (I cannot find an example on this site so I have had to work something out for myself. If there is a section referring to statute barred pcn’s I will happily go there if pointed out.)

    Dear Sir/Madam
    Statute Barred Debt
    Any debt is denied.
    I was the registered keeper of the car referred to. (Do I need to put this?)
    Your letters refer to a “contravention” and a “breach” on 6/9/12. According to The Limitation Act 1980 this matter became state barred six years from the date of the alleged “contravention”.
    The latest point at which you could have sued for the alleged debt is 6 September 2018. You have not done so. This “debt” is therefore statute barred.
    If you have evidence that this alleged “debt” isn’t statute barred, please send it to me within 21 days. Otherwise, please confirm in writing, within 21 days, that you won’t pursue me further.
    According to the Limitation Act 1980, and the fact that you are regulated by The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), you cannot send any further letters which threaten Court Action or CCJ’s without absolute proof that this is not statute barred.

    Yours etc

    Please let me know what you think. Any thoughts on what to take out, or add, would be appreciated. Should I send a copy to VCS?
    I do not intend to send this for a few weeks yet but thought it would be good to get as many thoughts as possible from your great minds. Thanks again in advance.
    Also, is there any way of changing the name of this thread to “6 Year Old PCN” Statute Barred”? That might be more helpful now. Or should this be started again in a new thread as it’s a bit different from the original post.
    Last edited by Fixtrace6; 24-10-2018 at 4:27 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 20th Oct 18, 12:42 PM
    • 17,883 Posts
    • 21,788 Thanks
    KeithP
    Also, is there any way of changing the name of this thread to “6 Year Old PCN” Statute Barred”? That might be more helpful now. Or should this be started again in a new thread as it’s a bit different from the original post.
    Originally posted by Fixtrace6
    You can change the thread title.

    Click edit on your opening post.
    Then Go Advanced.
    The type what you want in the Title box.
    Then save.

    Please continue on this thread - do not start a new thread.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th Oct 18, 1:12 PM
    • 15,203 Posts
    • 15,862 Thanks
    The Deep
    have you brought this to the attention of the SRA

    http://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page

    It might cost them a few pounds to wriggle out of it.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fixtrace6
    • By Fixtrace6 20th Oct 18, 3:26 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Fixtrace6
    The Deep. Thanks, I thought I had to point out it was Statute Barred. I was going to send my reply to bwl to the SRA and FSA when I sent it in a couple of weeks.

    I am asking bwl if they have evidence that it is not Statute Barred. So I am giving them a chance to wriggle out of it - if you see what I mean. Or are you saying they should have realised it was over 6 years and sent evidence it wasn't?
    I realise they are a not very nice company but I am trying to do things by the book. If I am being too naive I hope someone will tell me a better way.

    KeithP. I did what you said but it only allows me to change the name of the 1st post. Is it possible for someone to change the name of the thread?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 21st Oct 18, 2:39 PM
    • 25,008 Posts
    • 31,939 Thanks
    Redx
    KeithP. I did what you said but it only allows me to change the name of the 1st post. Is it possible for someone to change the name of the thread?
    Originally posted by Fixtrace6

    yes it is, so you are missing the obvious point of contact , the helpdesk staff for MSE


    specifically, the volunteer BOARD GUIDES named at the bottom of the forum, on the right


    pm crabman or soolin and ask for the thread title to be changed and give them the new thread title you want
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fixtrace6
    • By Fixtrace6 4th Jan 19, 2:49 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Fixtrace6
    I replied to bwl informing them this was statute barred giving them a month to provide proof it wasn't. That was nearly 2 months ago. I have had no response.

    I also complained to FCA and SRA with a copy of the 1st page of the LoC clearly showing bwl is trying to con an uninformed member of the public by threatening court over 6 years after the event.

    The FCA say as it is an "unregulated debt", and "As your concerns about BW Legal appear to relate to a parking contravention, our rules wouldn’t apply and the matter falls outside our jurisdiction. " I wasn't really surprised by that.

    The SRA, who I expected more from, gave an equally unsatisfactory response. "We have decided to take no disciplinary or regulatory action. We are satisfied that the firm are acting on their client’s (car parking company) instructions and they are instructed on claims where the car parking firms have been unsuccessful in recovering their parking
    charges after several attempts.",
    and "We are satisfied the firm are committed to working within the requirements of our Code of Conduct.".
    The SRA made no reference to the fact that bwl are threatening court over 6 years after the event!

    So I would be grateful to know if there is a next step. Do I just forget about it until there is another letter from bwl? Do I write to VCS?
    Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 4th Jan 19, 3:47 PM
    • 3,264 Posts
    • 4,148 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    have you let your MP know about this sorry tail ?


    Ralph
    • Fixtrace6
    • By Fixtrace6 25th Jan 19, 2:53 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    Fixtrace6
    I have complained to my MP. I got an automatic reply but nothing else. I suppose it's only been a couple of days though.

    Is there any way to force bw to reply? (ie having to write to me as opposed to hassling someone else).

    Or should I just leave this now?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 25th Jan 19, 2:58 PM
    • 7,881 Posts
    • 10,748 Thanks
    waamo
    You could do a SAR to see if they still have any data retained about you.
    This space for hire.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 25th Jan 19, 2:58 PM
    • 25,103 Posts
    • 40,494 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    There's not much else you can do if they are not responding. It wouldn't surprise if they never responded further, just leaving you dangling, not knowing what's happening next ....... Nasty

    Keep your wits about you though, come back on this thread if you get anything further.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • abedegno
    • By abedegno 25th Jan 19, 4:10 PM
    • 152 Posts
    • 225 Thanks
    abedegno
    Do a Subject Access Request, if you get a response and they still have your data then make a Request for Erasure
    • _JLFC_
    • By _JLFC_ 14th Jun 19, 7:33 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    _JLFC_
    It’s June 2019. What’s the verdict here, ignore or pay?
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