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  • FIRST POST
    • jamski07
    • By jamski07 17th Jul 16, 11:50 PM
    • 88Posts
    • 14Thanks
    jamski07
    Claiming against Norwegian Airlines
    • #1
    • 17th Jul 16, 11:50 PM
    Claiming against Norwegian Airlines 17th Jul 16 at 11:50 PM
    Thought I would document the progress of my claim as I can't see anything specific to Norwegian on here.

    So we were 7.5 hours delayed due to a member of ground staff being ill. To date, long story short, they've tried to fob us off claiming exceptional circumstances and citing a case about a damaged engine, totally irrelevant!

    I refused their offer of reimbursing our expenses of £60, found a case that went against the airline that has the exact same circumstance as ours, and have issued a Notice before action today.

    Planning on taking this all the way myself as the NWNF solicitors would be taking pretty much half of the compensation.

    Any advise welcome, especially regarding the small claims court, as it's going to have to be European Small Claims Procedure I think, can't see a UK address anywhere for them.

    As recommended in Vaubans guide, I have given them 14 days to respond, so have a couple of weeks to do my research for the next phase. Thanks to those who have helped on here to date.
Page 8
    • flyfranz
    • By flyfranz 15th Sep 18, 8:54 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    flyfranz
    CPH - JFK Cancellation 8.8.18
    Hello,

    I wish I had found this forum before I started this process. I wrote to Norwegian Customer Service instead of using their online claim process as I had booked a trip for my family but there were 3 different bookings for the 6 of us. We had different trips to CPH but we all were to travel back to the US on the same flight. Forgive me as this is long but I am going to post my original letter to them and the subsequent responses because there are a lot of extenuating circumstances. I am looking for guidance.

    Dear Sir/Madam:

    We purchased 6 tickets from your airline to visit my husband’s family in Denmark. Our return trip was slated for 8.8.18 – Flight DY7011 - departing CPH at 19:10 and arriving at JFK at 21:30. All 6 travelers - confirmation #’s KXUJ3V, NBUNWO, N9VL4K - were booked in Premium Class for this flight.

    At 8:40 on 8.8.18 we were on a flight from Bornholm to CPH with Danish Air Transport. We received a text that our Norwegian flight from CPH – JFK was canceled while getting ready to depart. The reason stated was due to weather at JFK/lightning strike on arrival on previous sector.

    After landing in CPH my husband called the number on the text to try to rebook our flights. We were told that Norwegian did not have any other direct flights to JFK either Wed. 8.8.18 or Thurs. 8.9.18 from CPH. We were told we could take a 16:10 to LGW and then a 21:05 to JFK on 8.8.18. But, whoever was doing the rebooking did not reserve the tickets while working on them. By time she got to the 6th person, that ticket was gone and we had to start over.

    The next choice still involved us going to LGW at 16:10 on 8.8.18 but we would not leave for JFK until 8.9.18. When these tickets were booked, we noticed they were booked for 12:10 from CPH rather than 16:10. We got the confirmation e-mail at 11:00 so it was a mad scramble to print our boarding passes, check all of our bags and get through passport control and security. Luckily the plane was late getting in and fueled so we made it, but it was highly stressful.

    Also, because of mandatory checks required by European Aviation authorities, Norwegian was forced to lease another aircraft to avoid cancellations for the flight on 8.9.18. According to a Norwegian Airline rep, the A380 could not go into JFK until after midnight due to size restrictions. So our 17:50 flight was further delayed to depart at 21:05 on 8.9.18 and arrive at 00:05 on 8.10.18.

    We had more than a 24-hour delay and needed to secure accommodations. We stayed at the Doubletree Hotel in London. My husband is a pilot and was able to secure a government rate with breakfast. However, because of the group that we had, we had to book 4 rooms.

    - My 81-year old father in a room with a single bed
    - My husband and I in a room with a double bed
    - My 28-year old and 12-year old sons in a room with 2 twin beds
    - My 22-year old son in a room with a single bed

    With a checkout time of noon we required 2 nights in a hotel. But we booked all rooms for 1 night only and had a late checkout for 1 room in order to store our bags until we headed back to the airport that evening.

    Our reimbursable expenses include the following:

    - Coffee at CPH Airport 8.8.18 - 55.20 DKK (receipt attached)
    - Train for 6 people for 2 days - £117 (receipt attached)
    - Hotel and breakfast for 6 people - £884.40 (receipt attached)
    - Dinner for 5 people at Jamie’s Italian 8.8.18 - £85.45 (receipt attached)
    - Lunch for 6 people at The George 8.9.18 - £92 (receipt lost)
    - Extra day of parking at JFK Airport - $20.00 (receipt attached)
    - International Telephone Calls to rebook flights - $13.20 (receipt attached)

    Beside what we actually spent out-of-pocket, the following was also affected/lost because of this delay. We live in upstate NY and that is about a 3-hour drive from JFK airport. We did not get home until 5 am on 8.10.18 as opposed to when we should have gotten home - around midnight on 8.8.18:

    - 22-year old son missed work on 8.9.18 and 8.10.18
    - 28-year old son missed work on 8.9.18 and had to take a vacation day he had earmarked for another time
    - 12-year old son missed his oncology clinic appointment on 8.9.18 at 13:00
    - 12-year old son had free tickets for the family to The Great Escape on 8.10.18 through the EnCourage Kids Foundation (due to his cancer diagnosis). We were unable to use as we would have had to leave our home at 9:00 and only just got there at 5:00. To purchase tickets for the following Friday it will cost us $233.79 (backup attached)
    - We had to take 2 flights rather than 1 direct flight. Beside the inconvenience, the 2-hour flight to LGW was not Premium which is what we paid for.

    Based on everything above, I believe we are entitled to the following:

    - €600 compensation per ticket x 6 = €3600 or $4112.10 USD (or current exchange rate) under EC 261/2004 regulations. This cancellation/delay meets the criteria for both length of delay and length of flight. A lightning strike affecting a previous flight is also not considered an extraordinary circumstance which would prevent compensation.
    - £1234.05 for transportation, hotel, meals or $1575.75 USD (or current exchange rate)
    - $33.20 for additional parking and telephone calls

    TOTAL - $5721.05 USD

    There are also a number of things outlined in my last paragraph, which were affected but not easily quantifiable. My sons cannot get back their missed days of work, vacation days or a theme park excursion. It is also hard to quantify the difference between a lowfare ticket for the 2-hour leg as opposed to the 8-hour trip that was to be premium the entire way. I believe we are due some sort of compensation for this as well.

    Thank you for your consideration. If you require any further documentation for this claim please let me know.
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________

    Their response a month later:

    Thank you for contacting us again. We are sorry for the time it's taken to respond and we thank you for your patience.

    Unfortunately, Norwegian flight DY7011 (CPH-JFK) 08.08.2018 was cancelled. This disruption was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

    ______________________________

    Flight Disruption Information

    Norwegian flight: DY7011 (CPH-JFK) 08.08.2018
    Disruption type: Cancelled
    Reason for disruption: This cancellation was caused by an earlier disruption within our network that had a direct effect on this flight. The original flight was disrupted due to a lighting strike.

    ______________________________

    Although we respect your request for compensation, we’re unable to honour your claim as your flight was cancelled due to an event, which constitutes extraordinary circumstances.

    In most cases, passengers will be entitled to compensation in the event that the disruption is caused by a technical defect. This is in accordance with the European Court of Justice ruling in the case of van der Lans (C-257/14) which states that technical difficulties resulting in the replacement of a defective component on the aircraft may be within the carrier’s control and entitle the passenger to compensation.

    Nevertheless, according to this verdict, certain technical problems may constitute extraordinary circumstances and exempt the carrier from its’ liability of compensation. This would apply in cases where the aircraft is released from inspection without the presence of a technical defect or any need to change a faulty component, as well as technical problems that affect flight safety, such as hidden manufacturing defects, and/or damage to the aircraft caused by acts of sabotage or terrorism.

    We are very sorry for any negative effect this disruption had on your travel plans. It is never our intention to disappoint or upset our passengers when choosing to travel with us.

    This was an unexpected situation which was entirely out of our control and we can assure you that we did the best we could, under the circumstances, to rebook our passengers and get them to their destination as soon as possible.

    We empathise that these kind of situations are frustrating and apologise for any distress caused to you or your family.

    On this occasion, we'd be happy to reimburse the following costs:

    - Food: 177.45 GBP, 55.2 DKK,
    - Hotel: 884.4 GBP,
    - Communication: 13.2 USD,
    - Transfers: 177.7 GBP,


    Unfortunately, we're unable to cover the other expenses claimed as we're not liable for such costs. For information regarding the legal basis for the reimbursement of financial losses in the event of a flight disruption, please see below*.

    In order to settle your claim, we require the following information to arrange an international bank transfer:

    • Bank name
    • Account holder’s name and postal address
    • Account number
    • IBAN number or ABA/routing number (electronic payments) for U.S accounts
    • BIC/Swift code

    You can send us these details by responding to this e-mail. If you don’t have access to this information, please contact your bank.

    We look forward to your response and assure you that your claim will be finalised once all of the necessary information is received.

    Kind regards,

    Nancy T.
    The Customer Relations Team
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________
    My response:

    Hello Nancy,

    Thank you for your response.

    Could you please explain what you mean by lightning strike? Did lightning actually strike the aircraft when arriving or while on the tarmac the evening of Tuesday 8.7.18? There are no records of such an incident. Could you please provide? Please also provide information on the technical defect caused by the lightning strike to the aircraft in question. According to FlightAware, the B788 from CPH landed in JFK at 9:59 pm that night and by all other accounts without incident.

    From what I can tell, Norwegian only has one direct flight on Tuesdays for the JFK/CPH route. That flight leaves CPH at 7:10 pm arriving at JFK at 9:30 pm and then departs JFK for CPH at 11:30 pm. If lightning didn't actually strike the aircraft then why didn't Norwegian just delay the flight rather than cancelling it? The airport did not close down and several short and long-haul flights departed JFK a couple hours later. The aircraft could have reached CPH in time to do a turnaround to JFK on 8.8.18 at the originally scheduled time even with the delay. If lightning did strike the aircraft, that still left Norwegian with over 12 hours to arrange for another aircraft to take its place.

    Even if the flight originating from JFK could not be delayed, the cause for the cancellation does not fall under "extraordinary circumstances" and many recent legal cases support this. In Frederique Jager vs easyJet the judge ruled that adverse weather for a previous flight did not fall under an airlines defense of extraordinary circumstances for subsequent flight delays. In Evans vs Monarch the court held that passengers whose flights were delayed by reason of lightning strikes were entitled compensation. Lightning strikes are inherent in the normal exercise of an air carriers daily activity and not considered extraordinary. Also under Wallentin-Hermann vs Alitalia an ECJ defined the "all reasonable measures" that an airline must take to prevent delay, even from extraordinary circumstances, as everything short of "intolerable sacrifice".

    But what also must be taken into account is the fact that the person rebooking our cancelled flight from LGW - JFK did not hold all of the tickets for our party as she was working on them. By the time she got to the 6th person that ticket was gone and we could no longer take that flight. It is noted on all travel receipts with the exception of one that we were rebooked for DI7015 LGW - JFK at 21:05. Had she reserved the 6 tickets while entering the information, we would have been on a flight the evening of 8.8.18 and only arrived home a few hours later than our original flight from CPH.

    But our disruption was not just a few hours and not just a slight inconvenience. It forced us to travel to another country and delayed us for over 24 hours. Under EC 261/2004 regulations we are due not only the reimbursement for our expenses because of this delay but also €600 in compensation per delayed passenger in our party for a total of €3600. There were also consequential losses which were a direct result of this cancellation. The airline has not demonstrated satisfactorily a reason not to pay the compensation I am due. Please provide the information I have requested above so I may determine whether to escalate my claim. Thank you.
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________
    Their response:

    Thank you for contacting us again.

    We kindly inform you that we are unable to prepare detailed reports of each case to our passengers and, unfortunately, cannot send the requested documentation. If you do decide to take this case to a National Enforcement Body then we must send this documentation to them.

    On this occasion, we'd be happy to reimburse the following costs:

    - Food: 177.45 GBP, 55.2 DKK,
    - Hotel: 884.4 GBP,
    - Communication: 13.2 USD,
    - Transfers: 177.7 GBP,

    Unfortunately, we're unable to cover the other expenses claimed as we're not liable for such costs. For information regarding the legal basis for the reimbursement of financial losses in the event of a flight disruption, please see below*.

    In order to settle your claim, we require the following information to arrange an international bank transfer:

    • Bank name
    • Account holder’s name and postal address
    • Account number
    • IBAN number or ABA/routing number (electronic payments) for U.S accounts
    • BIC/Swift code

    You can send us these details by responding to this e-mail. If you don’t have access to this information, please contact your bank.

    We look forward to your response and assure you that your claim will be finalised once all of the necessary information is received.

    Best regards,

    Nancy T.
    Customer Relations
    Norwegian

    How can they claim that the situation was an extraordinary circumstance and then refuse to prove it and unilaterally just say no to compensation? I did go on one of the websites and enter my flight information but was told they don't have jurisdiction to handle my claim but believed I was due compensation.

    Also does this really fall under extraordinary circumstances when we were basically almost rebooked for a flight the same night but it was botched by the person doing the rebooking? What angle should I concentrate on in going after this?

    Also, can I send her the bank information for my reimbursement for out of pocket costs? This they legally owe me and say they will pay. I just want to make sure they do not think that means I accept their decision about the compensation and incidental losses. Can this be done separately or do I take a risk?

    I would appreciate some guidance. I did download Vauban's guide and can refer to that. I am assuming I should issue an NBA letter next. Thank you for anyone that took the time to read all this!
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 15th Sep 18, 11:02 PM
    • 1,634 Posts
    • 714 Thanks
    Tyzap
    Hi flyfranz,

    Thats quite a tail and a bit difficult for us to help you if you live in USA and were delayed in Denmark. I'll do my best tho.

    The airline should pay you €600 for each passenger IMHO, as lightning strike is not an accepted EC. AFAIK there is only UK lower court support for this view so how you force them to pay I'm not sure.

    http://www.bottonline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/A18YP011Monarch-Airlines-v-Evans-and-LeeJudgment.pdf

    This may not be much help to you tho as it does not set a legal precedent, particularly in a Copenhagen court, however, it may be persuasive.

    Claims companies and Solicitors in the UK do not have jurisdiction in Denmark so I'm not sure this is your best approach. I believe that you would need a UK postal address to use the UK legal system which may not be easy if you are based in the US.

    As far as what you can claim via the EU261 regulations, the airline may have offered what it is obliged to pay you, except for the compensation aspect, I can't tell. Generally speaking they are liable for items and cost that you incur after the flight delay. So meals, non alcoholic drinks, hotel, transport, calls etc. Consequential losses are not covered by EU261.

    You will need to give them your bank details so that they can facilitate the refund, it is how most claims are resolved here. Some airlines do make payment via cheque and I suppose you could ask for that method if it is available.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • flyfranz
    • By flyfranz 17th Sep 18, 9:15 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    flyfranz
    Thank you very much. I did not realize that I would have to do something different as I thought that EU261/2004 covered me since I flew out of a European nation. I have my sister-in-law looking into where I would have to go in Denmark then.

    I don't have a problem supplying my banking information so I can get my out-of-pocket costs reimbursed to me. I was just worried that she mentions "finalizing my claim". I don't want to accept reimbursement if it is going to preclude me from getting the compensation I also believe I am due. I don't want my acceptance of this money to make it seem like I am accepting her decision about the compensation. Just wondering if others have accepted reimbursement when denied compensation and were able to go on and get compensation? Thank you!
    • JPears
    • By JPears 17th Sep 18, 9:41 PM
    • 4,175 Posts
    • 1,136 Thanks
    JPears
    Just send a reply stating that you don't accept it as full and final settlement of any claim under regulation 261/2004.
    Or hold off until you have put your compensation claim in.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • flyfranz
    • By flyfranz 18th Sep 18, 7:20 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    flyfranz
    OK thank you very much. I will do that. Thanks for your help!
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