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    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 14th Mar 18, 8:00 AM
    • 6,198 Posts
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    pineapple
    It's the indescriminate nature of using a nerve agent in public places which chills my blood. Cleaner if they'd shot him. It shows a fundamental lack of respect for the other country ie us. If I had been in that area at the time, I would be beside myself with worry.
    Originally posted by GreyQueen
    There was a disturbing interview on TV yesterday with someone who helped create that nerve agent (now living behind locked gates). He says 'there is no cure' for even a trace exposure. Breathed in it kills very quickly. On the skin takes a little longer. Plus even a minute trace could start showing effects a year down the line and at best that person would need lifelong medical attention.
    Very worrying if you live in that area - despite our reassuring words. Plus it explains the extreme response by hazard personnel which I don't recall every seeing before.
    I think the overall situation and potential for escalation is worrying. Let's hope that it doesn't progress to much more than huffing and puffing.
    Last edited by pineapple; 14-03-2018 at 8:04 AM.
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 14th Mar 18, 8:26 AM
    • 11,702 Posts
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    MrsLurcherwalker
    We don't have the resources, personnel or finance to start wars these days, we don't even have the finances to fix the pot holes in the roads! all we can do is make a song and dance about it and have our political say and rant, we have nothing effective as a deterrent against the vast entity that is Russia and the thought that our sanctions, which are the only real weapon on the table, will have them quaking in their shoes is laughable. Sadly we are not the nation or power that we once were are we?

    A very great sadness is the news of the death of Professor Stephen Hawking this morning, human kind has lost one of it's brightest and best, the sun is a little less bright today because the shining light that was his excellent mind has gone out.
    Last edited by MrsLurcherwalker; 14-03-2018 at 8:28 AM.
    Thumpers mum was right - if you can't find anything nice to say don't say anything at all!
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 14th Mar 18, 10:08 AM
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    pineapple
    We don't have the resources, personnel or finance to start wars these days.
    Originally posted by MrsLurcherwalker
    But these days it is no longer just about traditional war.
    For the very reasons you state we would also struggle with a major cyber attack. A hostile state could do terrible damage (I have no doubt UK is not squeaky clean in that area either).
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 14th Mar 18, 11:32 AM
    • 29,212 Posts
    • 166,853 Thanks
    Karmacat
    Intriguingly, 1% of the population has epilepsy.

    Here's my tuppenceworth. ....
    Originally posted by DigForVictory
    Wonderful post, DfV, I've copied and pasted that, and much of the responses too.

    There was a disturbing interview on TV yesterday with someone who helped create that nerve agent (now living behind locked gates). He says 'there is no cure' for even a trace exposure. Breathed in it kills very quickly. On the skin takes a little longer. Plus even a minute trace could start showing effects a year down the line and at best that person would need lifelong medical attention.
    Very worrying if you live in that area - despite our reassuring words. Plus it explains the extreme response by hazard personnel which I don't recall every seeing before.
    I think the overall situation and potential for escalation is worrying. Let's hope that it doesn't progress to much more than huffing and puffing.
    Originally posted by pineapple
    That makes my blood run cold.

    And there's been talk of repeated exposure to the same thing, hasn't there - like, putting your watch on every day, when your watch had been very slightly contaminated, gives you the same dose every day and it adds up to cause problems.

    I'm going to have a bit of a think about this.

    But these days it is no longer just about traditional war.
    For the very reasons you state we would also struggle with a major cyber attack. A hostile state could do terrible damage (I have no doubt UK is not squeaky clean in that area either).
    Originally posted by pineapple
    Agreed - on our capacity to withstand a major cyberattack, and our own record in *being* a hostile state.
    Retired August 2016
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 14th Mar 18, 11:54 AM
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    MrsLurcherwalker
    You CANNOT live if you are scared out of your wits because of 'what might be', that's NOT living it's not even existing. Life is for living, to be embraced in all it's variety and made the best you can make it, that quote' Ours is not to wonder why but finding what may be make it up fair to our means' has truth in it. We none of us have had easy lives and that has given all of us Preppers a different outlook and opinion whilst having similar objectives about what does constitute a safe life and what might happen in the future for us to need our skills and stores, until we face a real and existent threat life is for living as well as can be achieved. Stand in the sun and thrive, don't hide in the shadows from apprehension, it might be the last sunny day and you'll have missed it if you do!
    Thumpers mum was right - if you can't find anything nice to say don't say anything at all!
    • kittie
    • By kittie 14th Mar 18, 11:54 AM
    • 11,985 Posts
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    kittie
    gillingham is on lockdown. Blimey heck, this is now becoming scarey, nothing to stop terrorists sprinking powder onto a load of vegetables or into the water supply
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 14th Mar 18, 12:05 PM
    • 11,702 Posts
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    MrsLurcherwalker
    He Who Knows who is a retired research chemist has spent quite a lot of time since the Salisbury incident trying to work out how the nerve agent was delivered without it also contaminating the person/s who used it. He worked with pesticides and fungicides that used some chemicals giving some of the same effects and I had to run with a list pinned to the notice board with the treatments and antidotes for all the possible problems in case the worse happened when he was doing trials out of the lab and he came into contact with them. It's very difficult to make it happen and although yes, cause for concern I don't think it's quite as easy to chuck nerve agents around 'willy nilly' as the media are suggesting.
    Thumpers mum was right - if you can't find anything nice to say don't say anything at all!
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 14th Mar 18, 12:40 PM
    • 6,198 Posts
    • 29,749 Thanks
    pineapple
    You CANNOT live if you are scared out of your wits because of 'what might be', that's NOT living it's not even existing. Life is for living, to be embraced in all it's variety and made the best you can make it,
    Originally posted by MrsLurcherwalker
    Well yes of course. I don't think anyone is suggesting we should be 'scared out of our wits' But the whole nature of preparedness (and I would have thought this thread) is about preparedness for a variety of scenarios. It's like house insurance. You might not be expecting to be burned down or burgled but you probably have insurance all the same 'just in case' Ditto if your neighbourhood has been subject to a high incidence of burglaries most people would want to be at least aware. Maybe so they can take some sensible precautions.
    As for what is happening on the world stage, I think it is better to be aware and it is OK to express concerns and to talk them through. But that doesn't have to mean hiding paralysed with fear under your duvet.
    It's about balance
    Last edited by pineapple; 14-03-2018 at 12:49 PM.
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 14th Mar 18, 12:46 PM
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    MrsLurcherwalker
    Caution and precaution of course make sense and it is only sense to consider what you might face and do to stay safe but time and again we've all said the media storm that happens over any incident no matter how big or small makes it seem much more a matter for concern than it actually is. Having said that it is a terrifying thought that innocents can be caught up in acts of terror, violence, cruelty, war even but I don't think fear should dominate life, you can't be effective if you're afraid, can't be clear headed or think straight so not living frightened by all you are bombarded with from all sides only feels sensible.
    Thumpers mum was right - if you can't find anything nice to say don't say anything at all!
    • maryb
    • By maryb 14th Mar 18, 8:06 PM
    • 3,713 Posts
    • 45,623 Thanks
    maryb
    looks like another beast from the east is going to be Putin's revenge
    It doesn't matter if you are a glass half full or half empty sort of person. Keep it topped up! Cheers!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 14th Mar 18, 8:30 PM
    • 11,852 Posts
    • 228,618 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    looks like another beast from the east is going to be Putin's revenge
    Originally posted by maryb
    I had a precautionary bonfire tonight (as in, might be too wet/snowy at the weekend).

    Love bonfires. Arson is the only pathology I could almost understand the appeal of...........

    Plot2 is launched on its voyage into productivity and usefulness. I am sure they'll be some weird s**t underground, once I can find the soil under the tussocks of couch grass.

    I remember the lass who has the other half (great gardener) who, on digging up some seriously odd carp, said to me "Before these were allotments, what were they?!"

    I'm sure she thought the answer was something along the lines of 'the town dump' but it was actually a farm.

    The gold medal for Oddness excavated on Plot1 was won by a plastic sugar basin, the kind traditonally made in pressed glass which was pretending to be cut glass. So this was a fake-of-a-fake. You'll have seen them, I'm sure, three little stubby feet? The one I found was bipedal. Cos everyone takes sugar basins to their allotments, dontcha know?
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 14th Mar 18, 8:38 PM
    • 14,821 Posts
    • 141,434 Thanks
    mardatha
    In the 40s we had bombs dropping on us. In the 50s we had the dawn of nuclear power scaring us. In the 60s wehad the threat of WW3 with the Cuba crisis. In the 70s we had arab terrorists. We've always got something but we just get up in the morning and get on with life. Life goes on, always.
    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 14th Mar 18, 9:41 PM
    • 7,703 Posts
    • 22,296 Thanks
    DigForVictory
    I seem to recall the IRA chucking their weight around a bit, & then the A-rabs & now the Russkies again? As you say, life goes on.

    Right now, resitting my First Aid At Work & while they do let you negotiate aspirin for those having a heart attack, they don't teach tourniquets. Frankly, phew. Besides which, if you need to know, ambulance control will tell you how. An idea which chills me thoroughly, working in Manchester & surrounded by handy computer cables, but seemingly the construction guys are more appalled at the idea that a 6 year old might be more confident using a defib/AED than they are...

    Great fun watching the newbies go from frankly terrified to altogether more "er, it works like that?". Apparently two have children who 'already know first aid', and tomorrow's morning debrief will probably include coaching mothers in "well, I asked the lady from the Red Cross and she says..." They will have rolled each child into the recovery position "for practice". Possibly several times, once they find how much fun it is.

    The ex-RAF electrician is a doting papa - he wants to learn the Whole Flowchart with all the variables for babies, children & adults which (given our course is targeted at grown ups) means he'll have to read up a bit. (I then want him on speed-dial for reference.)

    Odd things dug included a rubbish tip of empty shippams paste jars. (My Brownie collection of glassware consisted of 9 different sorts of shippams jar, and an old lemonade bottle. Dashed exotic to me, back then!) These days I rather prefer dowsing to digging but I absolutely get that a new plot does not give you that choice!
    • Perplexed Pineapple
    • By Perplexed Pineapple 14th Mar 18, 9:54 PM
    • 405 Posts
    • 6,371 Thanks
    Perplexed Pineapple
    We don't have the resources, personnel or finance to start wars these days, we don't even have the finances to fix the pot holes in the roads! all we can do is make a song and dance about it and have our political say and rant, we have nothing effective as a deterrent against the vast entity that is Russia and the thought that our sanctions, which are the only real weapon on the table, will have them quaking in their shoes is laughable. Sadly we are not the nation or power that we once were are we?

    A very great sadness is the news of the death of Professor Stephen Hawking this morning, human kind has lost one of it's brightest and best, the sun is a little less bright today because the shining light that was his excellent mind has gone out.
    Originally posted by MrsLurcherwalker
    Mrs LW, no-one has the resources to fight a war nowadays. The UK economy is twice the size of the Russian economy and the combined western European economies (ie NATO countries) are fourteen times the size of the Russian economy. So no, we are not the imperial power that we were (and good thing say I) but we are not the smallest minnow in the pond by a long shot.

    Very sad news about Prof Hawking, used to see him in the street sometimes when we lived down that way.
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 14th Mar 18, 10:15 PM
    • 14,821 Posts
    • 141,434 Thanks
    mardatha
    PP I don't know about that. We haven't got much of an army left, we havent got planes or ships - we're a banana republic now
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 15th Mar 18, 7:43 AM
    • 6,198 Posts
    • 29,749 Thanks
    pineapple
    PP I don't know about that. We haven't got much of an army left, we havent got planes or ships - we're a banana republic now
    Originally posted by mardatha
    We are no longer the big kid on the block. We''ll be back to Dad's Army with imitation rifles the way things are going.... Which is why allies are important. But these days a lot of damage can be done economically without even resorting to physical violence (though chemical weapons may be an issue). I'm just gobsmacked that we are expelling 23 diplomats. 23? What on earth are/were they all doing?
    But we don't need external aggressors here. Pineapple manages to do things to herself by herself. Was using a telescopic lopper yesterday when the mechanism got caught up in a tree branch. While yanking it back through the branches it caught on another branch which then sprung back smacking her directly in the eye. Finally the worst of the pain has subsided and I can see out of it. Should have been wearing my safety goggles. Plus I could have done with a sterile eye wash or something. I'm a preparedness failure!
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 15th Mar 18, 8:02 AM
    • 29,212 Posts
    • 166,853 Thanks
    Karmacat
    Oh Pineapple! That's not good I do have safety goggles fairly available, because I was drilling metal to make a teeny tiny rocket stove, but I don't wear them, ever, to cut branches I have an eye bath, but I've no idea where it is

    **pulls Pineapple off the failure bench**
    Retired August 2016
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 15th Mar 18, 8:48 AM
    • 6,198 Posts
    • 29,749 Thanks
    pineapple
    I have an eye bath, but I've no idea where it is
    Originally posted by Karmacat
    I used the little measuring cup that I have for dog meds. It probably had traces of lactulose in it
    • kittie
    • By kittie 15th Mar 18, 2:46 PM
    • 11,985 Posts
    • 75,018 Thanks
    kittie
    RAF transport planes have been flying over today, very low, relatively slow, same for the last two days
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 15th Mar 18, 4:28 PM
    • 11,852 Posts
    • 228,618 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    Oh Pineapple! That's not good I do have safety goggles fairly available, because I was drilling metal to make a teeny tiny rocket stove, but I don't wear them, ever, to cut branches I have an eye bath, but I've no idea where it is

    **pulls Pineapple off the failure bench**
    Originally posted by Karmacat
    I recall from a first aid course in about 1990 that you're not supposed to use eyebaths, as there is a risk that they just slosh whatever it is you're trying to remove around where it scratches your eyeball. Although first aid practise seems to be changed so frequently that it's possible that eyebaths are back in play.

    We were taught to use a bottle of sterile solution to irrigate the eye, difficult to do on oneself as you're supposed to allow the liquid to run out of the outer corner of the eye. Being careful to capture it in a disposable cloth, if its something which is an irritant, so that you don't wash it over the patient's skin.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

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