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    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 13th Mar 18, 3:38 PM
    • 11,901 Posts
    • 229,667 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    It's the indescriminate nature of using a nerve agent in public places which chills my blood. Cleaner if they'd shot him. It shows a fundamental lack of respect for the other country ie us. If I had been in that area at the time, I would be beside myself with worry.

    But there will be some blustering and position-taking and nothing will change and P utin knows it fine well.

    Re SOS Talisman, I've worn one for 20+ years, a pendant or a bracelet, and don't really think about it so am always surprised if a stranger comments on it, usually along the lines of Oh, you've got one of those, too!

    I think it helps society to understand that people can walk around giving every appearance of perfect health whilst still having very serious things wrong with them. I, for example, would not lived to see this new millennium, had nature been allowed to take it's course. And youse lot would never have 'met' me on MSE, lol.

    Tonight, I am torn between archery and allotmenteering but have decided to go play wiv da pointy things, I need to keep my hand in. Come the zombie apocalypse, all archers will be needed to defend the walls of this city against the hordes.......

    Excuse me, you say the city walls are mostly missing and the remnants are less than knee-high and mostly hidden in flowerbeds? Dammit, why ruin a good bit of hyperbole by bringing boring old facts into it?!

    Ahem. We will defend the city walls against the zombie ant apocalypse.
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 13th Mar 18, 3:48 PM
    • 10,266 Posts
    • 55,378 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    I bought a bow a few years ago, but things keep getting in the way of me learning to use it properly.

    I've really got to get around to joining an archery club.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - 1308

    Who are you to question why your god doesn't want me to believe in him?
    • maryb
    • By maryb 13th Mar 18, 4:36 PM
    • 3,746 Posts
    • 46,106 Thanks
    maryb
    I have just been listening to the weather guru Dave King who believes the snow could come back on the 17th of this month for about five days.

    He has a good track record so thought I would share this.
    Originally posted by Elona
    Bingo!

    Met Office now forecasting another Beast from the East to hit this weekend, though they can't say yet whether the snow will be heavy and settling anywhere
    It doesn't matter if you are a glass half full or half empty sort of person. Keep it topped up! Cheers!
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 13th Mar 18, 4:41 PM
    • 15,849 Posts
    • 43,877 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    A chap we'd only been working with for about 30 minutes, keeled over in front of us, with a full-blown Epileptic fit.

    Quite shocking when you're not expecting it.
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    Yep...that's the one - ie it was a full-blown epileptic fit.

    ....and it was a bit of a shock totally out of the blue...

    I do think it's easier if people know in advance. In a subsequent workplace of mine colleagues knew about this and would keep an eye out and it almost boiled down to someone would be ready to catch her as she fell by the sound of it - as they were very aware this happened at intervals. It sounds like none of them batted an eyelash about it because they were aware.
    *******************
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 13th Mar 18, 4:45 PM
    • 10,266 Posts
    • 55,378 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    ....and it was a bit of a shock totally out of the blue...
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    That's the thing with Epileptic fits. They tend to occur with no warning.

    One moment the patient is fine, and the next thing you know, they've collapsed in front of you.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - 1308

    Who are you to question why your god doesn't want me to believe in him?
    • westcoastscot
    • By westcoastscot 13th Mar 18, 4:46 PM
    • 1,385 Posts
    • 17,109 Thanks
    westcoastscot
    As well as SOS and message in a bottle, there's ICE - easy for everyone to use
    https://incaseofemergency.org/
    My son has his SOS engraved on his wallet and 'phone case also
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 13th Mar 18, 4:58 PM
    • 10,266 Posts
    • 55,378 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    I learned about "I.C.E" a good while back, and have several ICE numbers programmed into my phone.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - 1308

    Who are you to question why your god doesn't want me to believe in him?
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 13th Mar 18, 5:01 PM
    • 6,216 Posts
    • 29,762 Thanks
    pineapple
    That's the thing with Epileptic fits. They tend to occur with no warning.

    One moment the patient is fine, and the next thing you know, they've collapsed in front of you.
    Originally posted by Bedsit Bob
    I was kissing a newish boyfriend goodnight when he suddenly dropped to the ground and started thrashing around. Was a kiss from me really that powerful?
    I was young and knew nothing of epilepsy at the time so I called an ambulance in a panic!
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 13th Mar 18, 5:08 PM
    • 10,266 Posts
    • 55,378 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    I was young and knew nothing of epilepsy at the time so I called an ambulance in a panic!
    Originally posted by pineapple
    If you don't know if the patient has had previous seizures, then calling an ambulance is a sensible course of action.
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - 1308

    Who are you to question why your god doesn't want me to believe in him?
    • jk0
    • By jk0 13th Mar 18, 8:09 PM
    • 2,321 Posts
    • 24,844 Thanks
    jk0
    Russia Threatens UK
    What was I saying this morning?

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-13/russia-threatens-uk-one-does-not-give-24hrs-notice-nuclear-power

    I'm wondering if Theresa is trying to get a 'Falklands Factor' to help her in her Brexit negotiations.

    What a f**k-up though. Can you imagine if we really got to war with Russia? The EU would leave us to it, as punishment for Brexit.
    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 13th Mar 18, 8:11 PM
    • 7,817 Posts
    • 22,991 Thanks
    DigForVictory
    Intriguingly, 1% of the population has epilepsy.

    Here's my tuppenceworth.
    If you've never seen one before, it can look like demonic possession or whatever horror movies you've seen - or just someone hitting the floor, flailing, grunting, & generally not being their usual chipper self. (Unless theirs is the more subtle "absence" sort which is a sight trickier to identify from outside.) Me, I watch the body flail, knowing the soul will return, but that right now, it's my job to defend the body.

    They aren't mad, they aren't witches etc, this is not demonic possession, and it isn't (usually) fatal - they just need someone to watch over them whist leaving them as much dignity as you can. If you've ever woken to find a stranger looming over you, you have a clue as to how the seizing stranger may respond. Your role as angel of mercy may not be obvious to them.

    So.

    First of all, make darn sure this is an epileptic fit & not an electrocution - do not go near them if you aren't reasonably sure the place is safe.

    Second, if you can, remember what time you find them & what time they stop physically flailing. (They may just roll over & sleep. They may nap & then start flailing again - this *definitely* needs an ambulance as repeated seizures can kill people.) Of course get someone to call an ambulance, but also set someone timekeeping. If appropriate, get any glasses to a place of safety. I'm thinking optical, not beer etc.

    All of that is second to the fact they may be in a dumb location & headbutting a stair, at which point, I do recommend stepping in & trying to lug a flailing person around. (One son had a fit face down beside an open fire - his brother hauled the flailing body away from the flames but didn't try to do a controlled lowering - just went to the head & cradled it so he couldn't clobber his head any worse). If they are in water, just hold the face out of the water. Safest to be up at the head end but you can be accidentally clobbered at almost every point on the compass. Game plan is to ensure they can breathe all the way through & try not to get clobbered.

    So. If you can, "manage" an airway, keep an eye on the time, mind the glasses & get an ambulance. [Oh yes, and tell anyone with a phone "taping" to stop. It is a gross humiliation - being taped when you seriously cannot consent. It is not "just a prank" or joke or laugh or banter. It is bullying and you need to set every authority going onto the would-be perpetrator. Office, police, whomever.]

    Do Not Put ANYTHING in the mouth. Not a hymnbook, not a wooden spoon - not Any Bit of you. Some sorts of seizure work out every single muscle group & you do not need to loose a thumb when the jaw muscle locks shut. Not least as the airway becomes compromised, and also you now have two casualties for the price of one.

    If you can get a blanket sorted (keeps would-be gawkers busy) splendid - it screens the individual, it can keep the recovering casualty warm as they rest after & it provides a decency covering later if needed.

    If they are coherent enough once the flailing has eased off to know what has happened, they may be coherent enough to guide you helping them.

    Not every seizure includes pee & poo but some can. Most folk recovering will want to sort that with all the decency you can supply. Some will have twisted their insides & need to throw up. Again, all the decency you can supply.

    I've never met an ambulance crew rock up & grouse. Epileptics, plenty, but unconsciousness is not something to shrug off unless you know *exactly* what happened & the observers simply haven't that information. Get the professional help - you can always let the patient tell them to go away, but you may want reassurance they're OK that a uniformed professional can provide.

    Hand the individual off to someone else, a medic or someone the patient recognises. Family, spouse, that grade of accepting backup with the capability to boss the casualty. They may be adamant they can go back to controlling power tools. In a few cases they might be right. Most are better taking the rest of the day off. Hopefully, they will not be allowed to drive home.

    Beside which, who is going to complete the accident book? Not an accident? Nope, act of mischievous deity, but better logged than not. Cleanup - head injuries bleed grotesquely, and a bitten tongue can mean just dribble is bloodstained. In my office, the first aiders can call in cleaners within 60 minutes (as bodily fluid spills rate faster cleanup than a dropped coffee). It also soothes the rest of the office staff.

    Finally, self care. If anyone offered to make a cup of tea, now is the time to accept gratefully!
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 13th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    • 14,904 Posts
    • 142,548 Thanks
    mardatha
    What can we go to war with though? One aircraft carrier without any aircraft..? That'll scare them rigid!
    • GreyQueen
    • By GreyQueen 13th Mar 18, 8:30 PM
    • 11,901 Posts
    • 229,667 Thanks
    GreyQueen
    What can we go to war with though? One aircraft carrier without any aircraft..? That'll scare them rigid!
    Originally posted by mardatha
    We can send a crew of reality TV 'stars' over there, that'll put the frighteners on them.

    DigForVictory, excellent post. My Kid Bruv developed epilepsy out of the blue aged about 15, he's in his fifties now and the seizures have long since been controlled by medication. I also have another younger relative who developed epilepsy months after a minor concussion. Both of them describe feeling tired and less-well-than-before on anti-convulsive medications.

    With my brother, there is a few seconds' warning in that his eyes go 'strange' - it's hard to articulate but sort of lights-on-no one-home, as if consciousness has gone offline. Then, the facial distortion and the falling down and flailing of a grand mal seizure. The times I was there, I would grab his glasses off for safe-keeping and gently wrap my arms around his head, not to restrain movement, but to ensure that his head was cushioned from the floor or furniture.
    Last edited by GreyQueen; 13-03-2018 at 8:53 PM. Reason: spelling
    Every increased possession loads us with a new weariness.
    John Ruskin
    Veni, vidi, eradici
    (I came, I saw, I kondo'd)

    • DigForVictory
    • By DigForVictory 13th Mar 18, 8:41 PM
    • 7,817 Posts
    • 22,991 Thanks
    DigForVictory
    Yeah, the whole "aura" bit is weird. Says she completely without it - I just go over like a ninepin whereas son has a visual 'warning' that he usually can't articulate though the standing, pointing, babbling in tongues & then crashing over is something of a hint. If he's suddenly fluent in French, he's about to go over...

    Holding the body of someone you love, waiting for them to come back, is a bit of a sod. But it beats the stuffing out of finding them out cold in a sprawl somewhere.
    • Bedsit Bob
    • By Bedsit Bob 13th Mar 18, 9:48 PM
    • 10,266 Posts
    • 55,378 Thanks
    Bedsit Bob
    All the training in the world, doesn't prepare you for someone suddenly fitting in front of you.

    It's not just the fitting, but also the speed at which it can occur.

    The man I treated was talking to me over my shoulder one moment, and the next second, he was on his way down to the floor.

    It was literally that fast!
    My job is Top Secret. Even I don't know what I'm doing.

    Amount I have so far denied the BBC - 1308

    Who are you to question why your god doesn't want me to believe in him?
    • MrsLurcherwalker
    • By MrsLurcherwalker 13th Mar 18, 10:08 PM
    • 11,811 Posts
    • 164,034 Thanks
    MrsLurcherwalker
    We can send NURSIE and the HEFFALUMP that Mar didn't eat from the Garden Fence thread, if that combination doesn't scare them into submission then they'll die laughing!
    Thumpers mum was right - if you can't find anything nice to say don't say anything at all!
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 13th Mar 18, 10:23 PM
    • 14,904 Posts
    • 142,548 Thanks
    mardatha
    You mean there's another load of elephant steaks -- oops erm I mean another elephant - out there walking around????? Hmmmmm...........
    • mardatha
    • By mardatha 13th Mar 18, 10:24 PM
    • 14,904 Posts
    • 142,548 Thanks
    mardatha
    I think that Russia will sit tight, fall about laughing, and make our govt look like eejits. Which would be about right.
    • ivyleaf
    • By ivyleaf 13th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
    • 5,512 Posts
    • 59,185 Thanks
    ivyleaf
    Thank you for that post DfV I hope I never need to use the advice but it's good to have it.
    A former colleague used to get a few minutes' notice of a seizure, which gave her just enough time to get herself to the first-aid room (which was usually empty) so she could lie on the floor until it was over. She wasn't very happy when one day it was announced that the first aid room was to be kept locked, and that if someone needed the key they were to go to a first-aider Can't have staff nicking a sticking-plaster, after all! They had simply not considered her needs at all
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 14th Mar 18, 6:53 AM
    • 15,849 Posts
    • 43,877 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    Just as well to have the full details and yep...the bit about it not being some outside factor causing it (eg "demonic possession") - as I think the colleague that belted off at top speed (and wasnt seen again) when t'other colleague was having a fit must have thought something like this.

    Me - I was carefully getting them down off their chair/making sure they didn't whack themselves on anything. It wasn't official advice to talk to them - but I didn't know whether this colleague had had a fit like it before or no. So I was taking the view that I thought she must be "present" and taking in what I said at some level or other - so was gently saying "It's okay...you're alright...you're just having an epileptic fit....etc etc" and explaining. Followed by explaining that I'd sent someone else off to get a medically-trained person back.
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