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  • FIRST POST
    • Ajp
    • By Ajp 8th Jan 16, 10:50 AM
    • 1Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Ajp
    hsbc 'Safeguard' letter
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 16, 10:50 AM
    hsbc 'Safeguard' letter 8th Jan 16 at 10:50 AM
    HI,
    I've just had a letter from my bank, HSBC, introducing 'Safeguard', which they say is a fraud protection measure. They request I 'update' and 'confirm' the details they hold on me. My objections are:
    1. Everything they know about me is up to date and I could simply tell them this.
    2. The questions they want to 'update' include lots of info they DONT currently have about me, such as the name of my employer and whether I'm a company director or not.
    They are demanding return of this form in 7 days. Has anyone else had a similar letter? I'm disinclined to tell them anything about me they don't need to know and I've had an account there for 25 years without them knowing any of this information.
Page 7
    • Apech707
    • By Apech707 13th Apr 18, 1:06 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Apech707
    I too have been subject the SafeGuard - my last letter said they were going to limit my ATM withdrawals to 50 pounds. This was because letters had crossed in the post. Previously I received three copies of the same letter posted on the same day. The threatening letter had no contact details - so I used online customer chat to clarify. It all started months ago when I attempted to use their 'Jumio' (?) system to upload photos of my passport and drivers license - I spent a whole morning trying to get it to work and then phoned the service - and was told to forget about Jumio and (as I was abroad) go to a listed person to get them to certify copies. I went to my GP in Portugal and he signed it - they then contacted me to say they couldn't accept the copies because they couldn't read the stamp and so on because it was in Portuguese. I suggested they have it translated - but they said they couldn't do that. Now I am asked again to send a utility bill stamped and signed by a bank - they insist on a postal bill even though for most things I have signed up for e-billing (cos of the environment) - the form which they emailed to me (a breakthrough in communication for them) asks for the person signing the documents to translate them also - which I'm guessing is beyond the ability of my local bank teller.

    During the phone call which preceded this request they started to dig into not just details about my use of the HSBC current account (which I've had since 1971) but also if I had any other accounts - what they were for and so on. I think that the reason this process gets so annoying is that it is presented as safeguarding the customer but actually its about preventing fraud and money laundering etc. All the way through this several month process I found it hard to identify how anything they were doing was safeguarding.

    Without wishing to go fully into the realm of paranoid conspiracy theory I do feel a blurred boundary between banks and other private companies and the government and law enforcement. I read the other day that the govt. is using banks to detect illegal immigrants and freeze their accounts to force them to leave the UK. ....
    • heathrow
    • By heathrow 13th Apr 18, 6:09 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    heathrow
    It's nothing to do with safeguarding the customer and everything to do with HSBC covering its !!!! on Know Your Customer/Anti Money Laundering.

    Friend of mine has been working on a KYC/AML project for Barclays for the last 3 years...
    • wendyjw
    • By wendyjw 23rd Apr 18, 4:42 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    wendyjw
    It's a ridiculous nonsense. I received my first safeguarding letter and then phone call just after I moved to New Zealand. I literally had only just left the UK and updated my details else they wouldn't have had my phone number. After confirming all my details were unchanged they wanted to know about employment and income and when I told them I had only just arrived in nz 2 weeks earlier from the UK so had no employment or income nor did I know when I would they wouldn't have it and insisted I give them info I didn't have. They then failed to record the information I did confirm. Over the following weeks I received a barrage of early morning phone calls that woke me at 5-6am prompting me to install a do not disturb function on my phone to prevent any further early wake ups. Clearly HSBC are incapable of working out time difference.

    Then I received lots of letters about safe guarding. These were a bust because they requested I email an address that didn't work lol! Only after FB enquires did the correct one come to light so I emailed with the ref number to be told- the ref number from the letter was not the ref number they wanted. They wanted the other number at the bottom of the letter.

    Wait. I said. But hang on that's my customer number! The one I log in to internet banking with. Why are you putting that on a letter and asking me to put it in an email? Nope and nope!

    I did try and communicate via secure messaging but to no avail. I told them a good time to call. They didn't. I could not phone them as I have no land line. I heard nothing till the form got sent asking for all manner of personal data to be sent by post. They eventually put restrictions on my account in an attempt to force my hand. I raised a complaint saying that this severely compromised my security and would put me at risk of identity theft so no I would not do it. Eventually I escalated it to the ombudsman but sadly they do not seem to comprehend the nature and magnitude of the problem and failed to properly focus on the key issues instead just parroting back HSBC's own words of 'it's part of safeguarding process' as though that means something. So the complaint has been turned down.

    I am downloading a form to close my accounts with them. Fortunately I have accounts with nationwide already. The restrictions never affected me since I never drew cash out only moved money online. I've only been with HSBC 8 years but the last couple have been awful. Can't wait to be done with.

    There is certainly nothing safe about safeguarding. And nothing logical in the way they go about it. But only a combined voice will make anyone take notice.
    • maninthestreet
    • By maninthestreet 23rd Apr 18, 11:12 PM
    • 15,317 Posts
    • 13,871 Thanks
    maninthestreet
    It's a ridiculous nonsense. I received my first safeguarding letter and then phone call just after I moved to New Zealand. I literally had only just left the UK and updated my details else they wouldn't have had my phone number. After confirming all my details were unchanged they wanted to know about employment and income and when I told them I had only just arrived in nz 2 weeks earlier from the UK so had no employment or income nor did I know when I would they wouldn't have it and insisted I give them info I didn't have. They then failed to record the information I did confirm. Over the following weeks I received a barrage of early morning phone calls that woke me at 5-6am prompting me to install a do not disturb function on my phone to prevent any further early wake ups. Clearly HSBC are incapable of working out time difference.

    Then I received lots of letters about safe guarding. These were a bust because they requested I email an address that didn't work lol! Only after FB enquires did the correct one come to light so I emailed with the ref number to be told- the ref number from the letter was not the ref number they wanted. They wanted the other number at the bottom of the letter.

    Wait. I said. But hang on that's my customer number! The one I log in to internet banking with. Why are you putting that on a letter and asking me to put it in an email? Nope and nope!

    I did try and communicate via secure messaging but to no avail. I told them a good time to call. They didn't. I could not phone them as I have no land line. I heard nothing till the form got sent asking for all manner of personal data to be sent by post. They eventually put restrictions on my account in an attempt to force my hand. I raised a complaint saying that this severely compromised my security and would put me at risk of identity theft so no I would not do it. Eventually I escalated it to the ombudsman but sadly they do not seem to comprehend the nature and magnitude of the problem and failed to properly focus on the key issues instead just parroting back HSBC's own words of 'it's part of safeguarding process' as though that means something. So the complaint has been turned down.

    I am downloading a form to close my accounts with them. Fortunately I have accounts with nationwide already. The restrictions never affected me since I never drew cash out only moved money online. I've only been with HSBC 8 years but the last couple have been awful. Can't wait to be done with.

    There is certainly nothing safe about safeguarding. And nothing logical in the way they go about it. But only a combined voice will make anyone take notice.
    Originally posted by wendyjw
    How are HSBC in the UK somehow responsible for you not having a land line in NZ??
    If you've emigrated to NZ, shouldn't you move your bank account(s) to a NZ bank?
    "You were only supposed to blow the bl**dy doors off!!"
    • meer53
    • By meer53 24th Apr 18, 5:10 PM
    • 9,322 Posts
    • 13,585 Thanks
    meer53
    It's a ridiculous nonsense. I received my first safeguarding letter and then phone call just after I moved to New Zealand. I literally had only just left the UK and updated my details else they wouldn't have had my phone number. After confirming all my details were unchanged they wanted to know about employment and income and when I told them I had only just arrived in nz 2 weeks earlier from the UK so had no employment or income nor did I know when I would they wouldn't have it and insisted I give them info I didn't have. They then failed to record the information I did confirm. Over the following weeks I received a barrage of early morning phone calls that woke me at 5-6am prompting me to install a do not disturb function on my phone to prevent any further early wake ups. Clearly HSBC are incapable of working out time difference.

    Then I received lots of letters about safe guarding. These were a bust because they requested I email an address that didn't work lol! Only after FB enquires did the correct one come to light so I emailed with the ref number to be told- the ref number from the letter was not the ref number they wanted. They wanted the other number at the bottom of the letter.

    Wait. I said. But hang on that's my customer number! The one I log in to internet banking with. Why are you putting that on a letter and asking me to put it in an email? Nope and nope!

    I did try and communicate via secure messaging but to no avail. I told them a good time to call. They didn't. I could not phone them as I have no land line. I heard nothing till the form got sent asking for all manner of personal data to be sent by post. They eventually put restrictions on my account in an attempt to force my hand. I raised a complaint saying that this severely compromised my security and would put me at risk of identity theft so no I would not do it. Eventually I escalated it to the ombudsman but sadly they do not seem to comprehend the nature and magnitude of the problem and failed to properly focus on the key issues instead just parroting back HSBC's own words of 'it's part of safeguarding process' as though that means something. So the complaint has been turned down.

    I am downloading a form to close my accounts with them. Fortunately I have accounts with nationwide already. The restrictions never affected me since I never drew cash out only moved money online. I've only been with HSBC 8 years but the last couple have been awful. Can't wait to be done with.

    There is certainly nothing safe about safeguarding. And nothing logical in the way they go about it. But only a combined voice will make anyone take notice.
    Originally posted by wendyjw
    HSBC gave you the option for providing your information so you could carry on banking with them, you declined to use this option. Your choice. This is how the FOS would see it too.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 24th Apr 18, 5:27 PM
    • 2,207 Posts
    • 3,169 Thanks
    badmemory
    Safeguarding is not about safeguarding you but about safeguarding HSBC from more of the mammoth fines they have had to pay. This is why they tend to go a little over the top.
    • familytr33
    • By familytr33 24th Apr 18, 11:57 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    familytr33
    Account is still frozen.

    Spent another 20 minutes on the phone yesterday from USA to UK trying to get through to HSBC SafeGuard.

    The call-center person finally told me to leave a message and they would call back. They called today, I missed them and had to call back. Got into another another 20 minute international call at my expense.

    So, today they went through the questions with me verbally... AGAIN. That is the 4th *****g time I have answered their (&^@#g questions.

    They assured me my docs have been submitted successfully. You might remember that despite SafeGuard confirming successfully electronic receipt in early Feb,I had to send the docs by mail last month (and get them certified by a US bank or lawyer on the legal500.com site).

    They said my account should be fine now and there are no restrictions.


    DESPITE ALL THIS>>> I still cannot make a wire. I still get error Ref [19543].


    The online support-typing-box person said the SafeGuard freeze is still in place and I should try again tomorrow.

    I am now into week 15 of this crap. SO MUCH of my time wasted, so much energy that could have gone elsewhere, plus some investment opportunities missed forever.

    ft.
    Last edited by familytr33; 25-04-2018 at 12:01 AM.
    • familytr33
    • By familytr33 25th Apr 18, 6:33 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    familytr33
    Well, another day and I still can't make a wire from on-line banking.

    And so, another 1 hr 20 mins (international US to UK) on the phone with HSBC today at my expense.

    They did make a phone-assisted transfer from my HSBC account to my US account today. They tried first with their main system but got error 19543 (Safeguard error, same as me). They had to use some kind of legacy wire system to get it through but they say it worked (up to 4 days to find out).

    Safeguard yesterday confirmed (again) everything is clear.

    The phone banking people today say they spoke with SafeGuard today (while I was on hold) and confirmed everything is clear on my account. There are no restrictions on my account.

    No-one can explain why I can't use on-line banking to make a wire.

    I spoke with a supervisor today (again). Unable to help, he noticed I had started a complaint procedure back at beginning of March and said the only thing I can do is to let it run. It can take up to 8 weeks for a complaint to go gradle-to-grave so I have a couple weeks to go.

    ft.
    • familytr33
    • By familytr33 10th May 18, 5:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    familytr33
    My UK HSBC account is finally unlocked after 5 months.

    HSBC have said said mea culpa and paid a moderate compensation. The moderate compensation I have been paid by HSBC comes nowhere near my actual financial loss.

    Apparently I was caught up in 2 different SafeGuard programs. I had successfully submitted all SafeGuard docs within the required timeframes for both programs.

    Screw-ups in their internal systems kept my account frozen and on-line banking folks, the call center folks and even higher-ups in the SafeGuard dept could not see a reason why my account was frozen the many times I contacted them.

    It was only when the official complaint person got involved (just under 8 weeks after the complaint was started) that the problem was resolved.

    In calculating compensation, HSBC say their systems apparently do not have log records from online banking showing I tried to make wires that were denied by them. They will not offer any higher compensation despite the fact I tried to make at least a dozen wires that were declined with error Ref [19543].

    Since the moderate compensation comes nowhere near my actual financial loss I will be contacting the ombudsman. Anybody got any advice on this process relating to this problem?

    Thanks,

    ft.



    PS. Some advice for anyone else who receives error Ref [19543] when making a wire from HSBC:

    Start the official complaint process right away.

    After the complaint is submitted call phone banking and try to make a transfer via phone.

    The rep will first try to make the transfer using the same online interface you use. It will fail with error Ref [19543] .

    The rep will then default back to try to use a legacy wire system. The wire will not fail immediately(like online banking) - it has up to 4 days to fail. But when it fails I believe a red is raised internally at HSBC which may speed up your complaint timeline.
    • Cash_Cow
    • By Cash_Cow 15th Jul 18, 5:12 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Cash_Cow
    I suspect I'm getting off fairly lightly as we did the personal ID stuff in person and before they closed the branch... But I am NOT giving them my mobile number - I might if it said 'we will never use this for marketing spam or to send you questionnaires on us or any other unwanted hassle and we will not share it with anyone'. Anyway I'm looking at a new account that has accounts software integrated within it for a similar monthly fee to HSBC.

    Their dinosaur strongarm customer unfriendly days may be numbered! I look forward to David sacking Goliath
    • familytr33
    • By familytr33 14th Aug 18, 2:45 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    familytr33
    Back in the SafeGuard Black Hole
    From my previous posts... earlier in 2018 I was unable to transfer funds out of my account for 5 months due to the SafeGuard Department's failure to process my documentation - submitted multiple times - correctly.

    After 5 months I was awarded compensation by HSBC, and I was able to transfer funds from an account I hold individually.

    A couple of weeks ago I tried to make a transfer out of the joint account my wife and I hold. All appeared to progress correctly; no error 19543 on HSBC website, no notification of a problem from HSBC at the time of placing the transfer or subsequently.

    But... after 8 days the funds had not shown up with the payee.

    Theer were no pending payements shown in online banking. So, thinking I had made an error, I made another attempt with the exact same result. Funds had not transferred after a week.

    On contacting HSBC no-one could see any problems with the account or the transfers.

    From previous experience of a complaint taking 58 days to resolve I immediately opened a complaint.

    Finally found someone who could tell me that transfers out of the account are on hold because of a SafeGuard issue with my wife.

    My wife submitted all the SafeGuard docs at the same time I did. She was not told of any problem at the time. It seems she is in the same SafeGuard black hole that I was in

    So, AGAIN, we again cannot transfer funds from our joint account, and I am currently trying from my individual account again. I need it to work!

    ft.
    • Shakin Steve
    • By Shakin Steve 14th Aug 18, 3:30 PM
    • 1,664 Posts
    • 1,424 Thanks
    Shakin Steve
    It seems to me that some customers are being punished for HSBC's previous misdemeanours. Sack them, just walk away. It's just not worth the hassle.
    I came into this world with nothing and I've got most of it left.
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 15th Aug 18, 7:51 AM
    • 1,237 Posts
    • 1,352 Thanks
    Uxb
    Alternatively they are by their actions getting rid of their awkward customers who want to be difficult or those who have complex lives.
    The bank no longer want the "hassle" of these customers.

    Like the poster above who refuses to give their mobile number and considers a requirement to provide it reason to leave. Perhaps they are going to move to a new challenger bank who operate only via mobile phone apps - or maybe not.
    I can't remember how long Lloyds have had my mobile number - probably near on 20 years. Never had any spam.
    • familytr33
    • By familytr33 15th Aug 18, 3:04 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    familytr33
    ItSack them, just walk away. It's just not worth the hassle.
    Originally posted by Shakin Steve
    I've been an HSBC customer for over 30 years but am no longer a UK resident. As a non-resident I believe I am unable to set up any new account with a different UK bank. So I can't just dump HSBC.

    I need to retain a UK-based bank account since I have a number of financial interests in the UK.

    Alternatively they are by their actions getting rid of their awkward customers who want to be difficult or those who have complex lives.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    I'm sure there are some who may not want to give personal details. But I have complied with everything they requested within the stipulated timeframes and still got hosed.

    As stated I have already received financial compensation from HSBC for their mistakes earlier in 2018. But now the cycle has started again.

    ft.
    • Uxb
    • By Uxb 21st Aug 18, 7:38 AM
    • 1,237 Posts
    • 1,352 Thanks
    Uxb
    I've been an HSBC customer for over 30 years but am no longer a UK resident. As a non-resident I believe I am unable to set up any new account with a different UK bank. So I can't just dump HSBC.

    I need to retain a UK-based bank account since I have a number of financial interests in the UK.
    Originally posted by familytr33
    You are precisely the person that the domestic banking services no longer want - you are hassle.
    They have to rely on a foreign postal service if they need to send or serve any documents on you. You can hardly go into to a local branch to verify your ID if they need you to.
    There are perfectly good international arms of the main banks all based in the Channel Islands catering exactly for the expat with business interests in multiple countries.
    Expect to pay a monthly fee of course for this like pretty well all the world does for banking facilities.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 21st Aug 18, 8:10 PM
    • 32,905 Posts
    • 20,725 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Alternatively they are by their actions getting rid of their awkward customers who want to be difficult or those who have complex lives.
    The bank no longer want the "hassle" of these customers.

    Like the poster above who refuses to give their mobile number and considers a requirement to provide it reason to leave. Perhaps they are going to move to a new challenger bank who operate only via mobile phone apps - or maybe not.
    I can't remember how long Lloyds have had my mobile number - probably near on 20 years. Never had any spam.
    Originally posted by Uxb
    Lloyds and TSB have had my number for 3/4 years, Halifax have had it for 3 and RBS have had it for 10 years plus, no spam has been received.
    • gaffel
    • By gaffel 3rd Sep 18, 6:09 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 130 Thanks
    gaffel
    Well today I logged into my business account to make some payments, couldn't. Got on to live chat, our your account is closing today at midnight. Like errrRR???

    Apparently they sent me forms in April and 2 letters, did not receive them. So now I have a bank account full of cash I can't use and have to run around trying to quickly open another!

    For those who had it closed, do they send the chq in 5 days?
    Original MF date: Feb 33 Target : MF date: Dec 20 Cleared mortgage August 2015
    Investment mortgage, 164k July 2038 MF date.
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