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    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 4th Nov 15, 9:22 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 1Thanks
    KieronThomas
    simarc charging "additional rent"
    • #1
    • 4th Nov 15, 9:22 PM
    simarc charging "additional rent" 4th Nov 15 at 9:22 PM
    Hi all,

    Recently I had my first demand for ground rent since buying my flat in April last year (2014) to the tune of 1123.36 and funny enough it was 3 letter all with different dates arriving on the same day.

    I felt that's was an instance ammount so I did a bit of digging. I found on my lease paper work I pay 100 a year in ground rent (completely normal amount) and 693 a year in "additional rent". I check the whole document as well as anything else that was regarding the lease and nothing says what this "additional rent" is. As i failed to notice it in the paper work i am not fighting paying it and have managed to setup a 3 month payment plan to pay what i owe.

    I tryes finding out what additional rent is and all i could find online is a service charge. This can not be possible as i pay belmount properly management the service charge which they detail in writing every year. I have requested simarc provide me with the definition of this "additional rent" and provide a break down od the costs per year this pays for. There response was to call it "additional ground rent" and remind me i have to pay it.

    Has anyone come across this before? Also if anyone can point me to any official source detailing my rights that i can use if simarc keep not compiling with my request.

    Thanks for any and all reply's
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 4th Nov 15, 9:43 PM
    • 44,379 Posts
    • 52,668 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 4th Nov 15, 9:43 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Nov 15, 9:43 PM
    Could it be unpaid back-rent?

    Was the ground rent up to date when you bought?

    Have you written to them to ask for a breakdown, and explanation?

    I would also refer to the fact that all 3 letters came together, since it sounds like they might be claiming you failed to pay when you received the 1st two demands.......
    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 4th Nov 15, 10:03 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KieronThomas
    • #3
    • 4th Nov 15, 10:03 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Nov 15, 10:03 PM
    Hi thanks for responding.
    This is not unpaid ground rent it is list as "additional rent" in the lease paper work.

    I have requested a break down they did not prove me any information. All 3 letters where not claiming I had failed to pay they did however send a another letter dated 2 days before I reserved the demand for payment adding 300 in ground rent arrears. They have dropped this fee after being informed all 3 letters arrived on the same day and thee 4th being dated 2 days before I had there demands for payment.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 4th Nov 15, 11:02 PM
    • 44,379 Posts
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 4th Nov 15, 11:02 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Nov 15, 11:02 PM
    Ah! I misunderstood.

    So the lease lists two items due for payment:
    * rent
    * additional rent ?

    Can you quote the exact wording in the lease please?

    It's also worth looking to see if there is a 'definitions' section (at the front or back?).
    • Richard Webster
    • By Richard Webster 5th Nov 15, 9:41 AM
    • 7,449 Posts
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    Richard Webster
    • #5
    • 5th Nov 15, 9:41 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Nov 15, 9:41 AM
    Did your solicitor not explain this to you when you bought the place?

    If it is "real"rent and not some form service charge then it will make quite a difference to the value of the property.
    RICHARD WEBSTER

    As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.
    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 5th Nov 15, 10:24 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KieronThomas
    • #6
    • 5th Nov 15, 10:24 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Nov 15, 10:24 AM
    I'm at work untill 5pm. When I get home ill quote the lease paper work.

    I do not recall any conversations about additional rent I was however sent a photocopy of the lease paper work before completing the sale making me legally aware I just failed to notice it.
    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 5th Nov 15, 8:18 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KieronThomas
    • #7
    • 5th Nov 15, 8:18 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Nov 15, 8:18 PM
    4th page Lease of Part
    "the Additional Rent". 693.00 (Six hundred and ninety three pounds) a year


    Definitions page 6 item 1.7
    The Rent. The Ground Rent and the Additional Rent


    Second Schedule page 11 item 1.1
    To pay the Land lord the Ground Rent in two equal amounts in advance on 1 January and 1 July in each year without deduction of set off by direct debit or standing order as the Landlord may direct


    Item 1.3
    To pay the Landlord the Additional Rent in twelve equal amounts in advance on 1st day of each month in each year without deduction of set off by direct debit or standing order as the landlord may direct.


    Item 1.4
    The addition Rent of 693.00 shall be increased every twelve years from the commencement of the Term in line with Average Earnings as published in the New Earnings Survey (or any other index or survey replacing it) using the formula a divided by b multiolied by 693.00 (a/b x 693)


    Where:-


    a = the latest published survey figure and


    b = the latest survey figure published before 1 January 2006 (as varied by any subsequent alteration in the method or preparing the survey)
    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 5th Nov 15, 8:24 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KieronThomas
    • #8
    • 5th Nov 15, 8:24 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Nov 15, 8:24 PM
    if more detail is wanted I can run it through the scanner at work
    • G_M
    • By G_M 5th Nov 15, 8:32 PM
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 5th Nov 15, 8:32 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Nov 15, 8:32 PM
    I assume there are also separate clauses covering service charges or maintenance payments or similar?

    It appears as if the annual ground rent is the sum of these two amounts, one of which is payable monthly, and the other payable 6 monthly.
    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 5th Nov 15, 9:03 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KieronThomas
    Yes the service charge has separate clauses.


    maybe the fact there only separate sub clauses leaves a little hard to tell
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 5th Nov 15, 9:26 PM
    • 3,027 Posts
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    TrickyDicky101
    My take would be that the additional rent imposes an onerous escalation clause on the leaseholder and would certainly impact on the value of the lease. Assuming strong avg earnings growth over the next 3 years (not implausible although not guaranteed), you could well find your additional rent component increasing by c.50% pa from 2018.
    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 6th Nov 15, 11:16 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KieronThomas
    Thats a worrying estimation even 25% would be q hefty sting.

    Surely this additional rent must be defined and details provided on request. Does anyone know what legislation I should be looking at?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 6th Nov 15, 11:36 AM
    • 44,379 Posts
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    G_M
    No leglisation (that I'm aware of).

    Contract law.
    • TrickyDicky101
    • By TrickyDicky101 6th Nov 15, 11:42 AM
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    TrickyDicky101
    Thats a worrying estimation even 25% would be q hefty sting.

    Surely this additional rent must be defined and details provided on request. Does anyone know what legislation I should be looking at?
    Originally posted by KieronThomas
    Looks to me like it was defined in the lease excerpts you quoted.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 6th Nov 15, 12:02 PM
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    AdrianC
    Looks to me like it was defined in the lease excerpts you quoted.
    Originally posted by TrickyDicky101
    Indeed. And you accepted them by buying the flat.

    Your solicitor should have explained them to you.
    • KieronThomas
    • By KieronThomas 6th Nov 15, 1:01 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    KieronThomas
    I have no argument against accepting it on sale I understand that its not understanding what its for.
    Ground rent is a standard term and there plenty of documentation available explaining it. Additional rent is open, try looking it up and all I find is that it could be a service charge but for me that is covered on its own in the lease and I get the break down every year and pay it to Belmont property management and its less then this additional rent.

    I don't expect a golden bullet that sees 1000s coming to me all I'm after is getting simarc to give me the details of the additional rent and if ita unreasonable challenge it.

    I can only blame my self for getting stuck with this but I know I have the right to know what I'm paying for I just don't know where to look to give then no reason to not comply.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 6th Nov 15, 1:04 PM
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    AdrianC
    What did your solicitor say when they confirmed you understood your obligations and restrictions under the lease with you, prior to exchange?
    What did the freeholder/management company say when you asked them?

    In a way, it's irrelevant what it's for - or whether you think it "reasonable". It's there in your lease, and you knew (or should have known) it was there in your lease when you bought the place.
    • ognum
    • By ognum 6th Nov 15, 1:56 PM
    • 4,574 Posts
    • 7,099 Thanks
    ognum
    Thats a worrying estimation even 25% would be q hefty sting.

    Surely this additional rent must be defined and details provided on request. Does anyone know what legislation I should be looking at?
    Originally posted by KieronThomas
    As far as I can tell it is an additional ground rent. I'm not sure you do have a right to know what it's for. No one asks the freeholder what they do with the ground rent they receive, they can do what they like with it!

    It is not a service charge so you will not receive a breakdown of it use like roof repairs, gardening etc.

    You agreed to pay it by buying the flat.

    For others, please, please, please read the lease yourself. If there is a part you don't understand ask for a legal explanation.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Nov 15, 1:08 AM
    • 44,379 Posts
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    G_M
    Unless otherwise defined (which you say it is not), the 'additional ground rent' is for exactly the same as the 'ground rent'.

    In both cases, it constitutes income for the freeholder in return for the right to use the building (as defined in the lease).

    It is not a service charge, which can only be spent on specific services.

    It is simpy an 'additional' amount. It is listed separately it seems since the payment terms differ.
    • chris_m
    • By chris_m 8th Nov 15, 8:06 AM
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    chris_m
    I wonder if the "ground rent" is just for the land upon which the building stands and the "additional rent" is for the flat within the building?
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