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  • FIRST POST
    • daniel80
    • By daniel80 22nd Oct 15, 6:31 PM
    • 230Posts
    • 48Thanks
    daniel80
    London Capital and Finance
    • #1
    • 22nd Oct 15, 6:31 PM
    London Capital and Finance 22nd Oct 15 at 6:31 PM
    Anyone had any dealing with this company. My son has 25k to invest for only 2 years as it will be a house deposit. Iv`e told him to stay away from the stock market as 2 years is not long enough. As he is not overly keen with saving accounts cash isa`s etc due to low interest rates I said what about premium bonds a gamble on winning but stake is safe only loss would be inflation. When I googled investment ideas a link came up who were called specialist investment ideas with free advice. I put in my details..I received a call about half an hour later the guy recommended the above company which was based in Mayfair. he sounded very posh. He said London Capital and Finance were offering bonds paying 8% the money being lent to various companies to a maximum of 60% of their assist. He seems more of a salesman than an advisor and wants to phone back Monday. Brochure looks ok online but something does not seem right. Anyone dealt with these.

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    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 01-09-2016 at 2:14 PM.
Page 11
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 11th Feb 18, 10:44 PM
    • 1,613 Posts
    • 1,365 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    Rhetorically, why do you ask this question? What makes you think there is a change?
    Originally posted by bail-in
    Rhetorical, or not, I'll answer your questions. I wondered if there was a change in your view because your more recent posts seem to be calling into question whether they are an honest and fit and proper company.

    There has been no change in my view of this company or unregulated and regulated investments. My view in my posts and LC&F review tends to be the same. It always has been, which is honestly looking at facts and figures on both sides objectively with the info I have to hand and searching for truth. No reader would give credence to all posts or a review which were totally negative nor totally positive, whatever type of investment. With my posts, the few there are, what you see is what you get. There is nothing hidden. I am an outsider, a newcomer to the forum so long term members are suspicious. However, I have no hidden promotional agenda, or any other agenda, that some members here have mistakenly accused me of. In my approach I have always looked from the information angle of both pros and cons. What you have read in my recent posts is also in my review, just taking the negative angle. There has been no change in my view. I never have had a solely negative or positive view. I am still objectively enquiring, looking for answers. That dog and bone thing.
    Originally posted by bail-in
    Okay.

    These types of products are not retail investments and are extremely high risk. They are being marketed as retail investments and, even worse, they are being presented as if they are savings bonds. This is why so many of us are unhappy about this company (and others operating in the same way).
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 12th Feb 18, 12:26 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    I do not see how any reasonable person reading the London Capital and Finance mini-bond review could conclude that the LC&F investment bond is a safe investment. Even if so, the FCA has ensured the application process clearly points out the high risk and appropriate certification of investors. However, as it is a self certification process, I have little doubt that some investors, knowing full well the high risk, chasing the high interest rates, will choose to invest irrespective of the fact that they do not match the required investor certification.

    For the record, I would not invest in LC&F nor do I recommend anyone to do so because it is highly risky, as pointed out clearly in posts here including the review and backed up with data.

    Please follow the Forum Rules and the recent Forum Team posts in the LC&F threads. In your posts please be accurate, truthful, just, respectful and tolerant. To those continuing to villify me, please do not continue to do so or incite others to do so. Do not continue to have my posts deleted if they do not violate Forum Rules. Do not misleadingly alter the paragraph above, use it out of context, or use any of my words in my posts, to mean the opposite of my meaning. Thank you.

    For an indepth review of the London Capital and Finance mini-bond visit
    https://anonymouslcafgmail.weebly.com/
    Last edited by bail-in; 18-03-2018 at 9:00 AM.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 12th Feb 18, 12:44 PM
    • 1,613 Posts
    • 1,365 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    Please follow the Forum Rules and the recent Forum Team posts in the LC&F threads. In your posts please be accurate, truthful, just, respectful and tolerant. To those continuing to villify me, please do not continue to do so or incite others to do so. Do not continue to have my posts deleted if they do not violate Forum Rules. Do not misleadingly alter the paragraph above, use it out of context, or use any of my words in my posts, to mean the opposite of my meaning. Thank you.
    Originally posted by bail-in
    I, for one, have done none of the things you complain about, and I have seen no one else doing so either. If posts have been deleted that is because a moderator believes that it breached the forum rules. Reporting a post doesn't automatically lead to it being deleted.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 12th Feb 18, 12:53 PM
    • 7,704 Posts
    • 14,099 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    . If posts have been deleted that is because a moderator believes that it breached the forum rules. Reporting a post doesn't automatically lead to it being deleted.
    Originally posted by ValiantSon
    If enough people hit the 'spam' button on a post it is automatically 'hidden / removed until a moderator can check it' or some such language, allowing the forum to essentially self-police and ensure we get rid of the incessant adverts for kitchens or fake IDs which appear at all hours of the night when moderators aren't around to manually react to reports.

    Perhaps the same happened to some of bail-in's posts ; I don't know to what extent a moderator or board guide actually reads and exercises a value-judgement on content of posts that have received a lot of spam flags, or just goes with the consensus as enough reason to keep the post suppressed; but I do know that some earlier posts of bail-in's were removed before they requested reinstatement or a chance to post again, because he told us so.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 12th Feb 18, 1:03 PM
    • 92,221 Posts
    • 59,391 Thanks
    dunstonh
    The LC&F threads do appear to get culled periodically. This includes posts by others and not just bail-in. I doubt the spam button is responsible for all of them and the mods tend to only look at threads if someone is reporting posts the old way.

    In the interests of transparency, I used the spam button on a recent post by bail-in that gave contact details. It came across more spammy than serving any other purpose.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 12th Feb 18, 1:09 PM
    • 7,704 Posts
    • 14,099 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    I do not see how any reasonable person reading the London Capital and Finance mini-bond review could...
    Originally posted by bail-in
    ...not get bored to tears before the end of the scintillating second act ?

    However, as it is a self certification process, I have little doubt that some investors, knowing full well the high risk, chasing the high interest rates, will choose to invest irrespective of the fact that they do not match the required investor certification.
    I don't doubt that either, but I do tend to think that where someone is so greedy that they will deliberately sign off that they are a sophisticated or HNW investor who does not want the regulatory protections associated with 'retail' deposits or investments - for fear of missing out on a too-good-to-be-true investment that is only allowed to be invested in by people who certify that they fully understand all the risks - pretty much deserves whatever negative returns they get.

    Another school of thought is that some people through no fault of their own are dim witted and need to be protected from themselves, so even if they deliberately lie on a form to get something that isn't suitable, they should still expect the industry's collective mercy and protection.

    For the record, I would not invest in LC&F nor do I recommend anyone to do so because it is highly risky, as pointed out clearly in posts here including the review and backed up with data.
    Basically the short answer is as it always had been, this is an investment that's incomparable to a cash deposit because it is entirely possible to lose all your money, and where it is next to impossible to conduct adequate due diligence on the underlying investments held behind the loan into which you invest. You are not not supposed to invest unless you can afford to lose the money, and your family and friends and everyone on the internet forums will laugh at you if you lie and say you understand it and then later lose your money and want to complain. That's all you need to know.

    It doesn't really need many pages of scrolling down a "review" online to understand what due diligence other people have done, nor calls for other anonymous strangers online people to post a "review" of whether or not they got all their money back when they made their private investment (as your experience may differ anyway).
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 12-02-2018 at 1:11 PM.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 12th Feb 18, 5:31 PM
    • 3,935 Posts
    • 6,138 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I don't doubt that either, but I do tend to think that where someone is so greedy that they will deliberately sign off that they are a sophisticated or HNW investor who does not want the regulatory protections associated with 'retail' deposits or investments - for fear of missing out on a too-good-to-be-true investment that is only allowed to be invested in by people who certify that they fully understand all the risks - pretty much deserves whatever negative returns they get.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    I've now seen quite a lot of these self-certification forms, and most of them are as easy to ignore as that blather about cookies that now appears on every website, or the small print that comes up when you take out a mobile phone contract.

    I don't necessarily disagree that people are ignoring them out of greed and FOMO, but I still have some sympathy.

    Standard practice among respected companies that offer high-risk investments to retail investors is to either require them to go via a regulated intermediary, or, if they want to go direct, complete a checklist that asks "Have you invested in a product like this before" "Are you prepared to risk 100% loss of your money" etc etc for about half a dozen questions or more. Anyone who ticks "no" is either politely declined or asked further questions. If someone ticks "yes" to all of them the company can reasonably say they did everything possible to verify that the investor was high-net-worth or sophisticated.

    Self-certification is balls.
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 13th Feb 18, 10:14 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    Basically the short answer is as it always had been, this is an investment that's incomparable to a cash deposit because it is entirely possible to lose all your money, and where it is next to impossible to conduct adequate due diligence on the underlying investments held behind the loan into which you invest. You are not not supposed to invest unless you can afford to lose the money..... That's all you need to know. .
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Now that is to the point. I will give you that. Unfortunately I never was good at precis in school. As for the boring point, the LC&F mini bond review pales in comparison to readings of bills in parliament. Take a pillow with you if ever you have the option of doing so!
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 13th Feb 18, 9:39 PM
    • 4,169 Posts
    • 4,577 Thanks
    robatwork
    Weird thread is weird.
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 16th Feb 18, 3:36 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    Mini-bonds | The risks... The Telegraph

    All bonds carry risks. The company you lend money to could always go bust, or face cash flow problems that delay interest payments.

    Unlike deposits with banks, bonds are not covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.

    Mini-bonds are normally seen as riskier than other corporate bonds for two reasons:

    Mini-bonds, unlike retail bonds, cannot be traded on the stock market. Investors are therefore locked in until the bond matures, even if the firm falls into difficulty.

    The rules concerning mini-bonds are less onerous. For instance, issuers or mini-bonds need produce only basic prospectuses for investors.

    For an indepth review of the London Capital and Finance mini-bond visit
    https://anonymouslcafgmail.weebly.com/
    Last edited by bail-in; 18-03-2018 at 9:27 AM.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 16th Feb 18, 6:26 PM
    • 2,392 Posts
    • 1,602 Thanks
    Vortigern
    Unfortunately I never was good at precis in school.
    Originally posted by bail-in
    We'd never have guessed!

    I've just seen an ad on Facebook, linking to a "Top Ten ISAs" comparison site, which offered rates of up to 8% - this immediately raised suspicions.

    Guess whose ISA was top of the list?

    They really are trying to snare unsophisticated investors who would look to Facebook for guidance.
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 18th Feb 18, 6:21 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    https://www.director.co.uk/how-to-launch-a-mini-bond-business-funding-4585/

    An article about Richard Wheatley and his company MRM re ins and outs of mini-bonds. He has been behind the launch of some of the more successful launches.
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 1
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 2
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 18th Feb 18, 6:32 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/feb/03/mini-bonds-city-high-return-risk-fca

    Article from the Telegraph on high risk mini-bonds
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 24th Feb 18, 8:19 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    London Capital and Finance (LC&F) Due Diligence
    The link http://opiscapital.co.uk/products/ is to an alternative investments introducer, Opis Capital, for the new tranche of mini-bond offerings from LC&F to FCA approved investors and IFAs. However, LC&F is still advertising direct to the public in best buy tables. The previous mini-bond offerings are closed being fully subscribed.

    There is a recent commercial due diligence pdf document re the LC&F company on the website. The download document title link is below for qualified advisers and FCA approved investors.

    LCFDueDiligenceQuestionnaireVersion1.1 - December2017
    http://opiscapital.co.uk/content/uploads/2018/01/DDQ.pdf

    The document contains basic due diligence not comprehensive details. There is no info on the identification of SME company borrowers, the very disclosure that customers have repeatedly asked for to help confirm the existence of the high risk commercial lending to SMEs business.

    It appears to be pretty much impossible to operate a commercial loan business of this nature with a CEO and only two employees both of which appear to be primarily involved in customer contact office operations rather than the commercial lending. Other LC&F company directors named at Companies House appear to be coming and going. (See the current company structure in the flow chart in the above due diligence document above.)

    When asked, neither of the two staff appear to know or want to disclose anything about the commercial lending business, not even the employees of the lending team or where they are based.

    As do the bond investment team Surge Financial Ltd, the LC&F head office staff say they cannot disclose information on the SME borrowers because of data protection rules. However, this is incorrect as confirmed by the ICO. The DPR in the Data Protection Act 1998 do not apply to the commercial lending business here as it is B2B, business to business and only company info, not personal data, is being requested re commercial due diligence.

    Re due diligence investors may not be able to rely on audited accounts to show the health of a company. Financial history shows companies can collapse even though recent audited accounts give a clean bill of financial health. Makes you wonder to what degree the company client accounts are audited with respect to due diligence re financial, legal and commercial due diligence. Of course, non contracted outsiders cannot get access to the company accountant to check what due diligence they carried out re a specific client.

    For an indepth review of the London Capital and Finance mini-bond visit
    https://anonymouslcafgmail.weebly.com/
    Last edited by bail-in; 18-03-2018 at 9:39 AM.
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 1
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 2
    • Reaper
    • By Reaper 24th Feb 18, 1:45 PM
    • 6,228 Posts
    • 4,480 Thanks
    Reaper
    Another lengthy and rather unfocused post. When non-expert posters ask whether an investment is a good idea or not they really just want a Yes/No answer with a few bullet points to back up your opinion.

    To give another example when you switch on the TV to watch the weather the presenter could tell you about the Adiabatic Lapse Rate, the types of clouds associated with an advancing front, and micro meteorology landscape factors providing local variations. But actually all you want to know is whether it's going to rain or not.

    Providing lots of info on how much due diligence has or has not been done confuses rather than assists prospective investors.

    I don't dispute anything you have written (though to be honest I only skim read it as most will) but as I said previously, "Less is More".
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 24th Feb 18, 2:12 PM
    • 6,876 Posts
    • 7,139 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Another lengthy and rather unfocused post. When non-expert posters ask whether an investment is a good idea or not they really just want a Yes/No answer with a few bullet points to back up your opinion.
    Originally posted by Reaper
    To be fair, any non-expert posters opening this thread at the beginning will (or should) get the message loudly and clearly that the short answer is 'no'! Of course, many non-expert posters simply start a new thread without searching first, and are swiftly given a clear message and/or pointed to this thread, so the chances of such folk wading through 200+ posts (regardless of length) on this thread are pretty minimal anyway, I'd have thought.

    Without knowing bail-in's motivation or target audience for the series of verbose posts, they just come across as trying to show off and appear clever, although I suspect there's merit in some of the recent posts suggesting reading between the lines, for those able and willing to put in the time and effort involved in ploughing through them!
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 24th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    I note other longterm posters here post lengthy posts and I may have to refer to a financial dictionary. Finance can be very complicated and sometimes being too simplistic can result in errors.

    The above post on LC&F commercial due diligence is not lengthy and it is focused on the subject it deals with. Few here may have gone into the depths of investigation I have into specific alternative finance and investments and as you say many are looking for more simple and short answers.

    However, that is not a reason to exclude other more in depth info. If someone actually is considering investing in LC&F, such info detail saves them time and like me they may not get answers to their questions from LC&F or other issuers. I have found it useful in my decision not to invest in LC&F and other similar startup and under capitalised high risk investments.

    The more detail you have and the more on the fence you are, the easier it is to decide whether or not to invest. I have had advisers suggest an investment and I acted on that but it has been at its peak. My personal investing history shows I fair much better by doing my own research. Amateurs often have more time to do so and they are more vigilant as it is their money at risk.

    I originally came on the LC&F thread to find out more about it and similar high risk investments. But much of the info posted I could get from their websites. That is one reason why I decided to do my own research and share results here. It is not a concern whether members read it or not. However, it is good to have the option to do so.

    For an indepth review of the London Capital and Finance mini-bond visit
    https://anonymouslcafgmail.weebly.com/
    Last edited by bail-in; 18-03-2018 at 9:03 AM.
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 1
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 2
    • robatwork
    • By robatwork 25th Feb 18, 12:15 PM
    • 4,169 Posts
    • 4,577 Thanks
    robatwork
    This is the thread that just keeps on not-giving.
    • Plus
    • By Plus 25th Feb 18, 1:11 PM
    • 332 Posts
    • 263 Thanks
    Plus
    bail-in, have you thought about writing your pieces up as a blog?

    It seems that you're getting the worst of both worlds here: posters who generally aren't interested in reading essays on the inner workings - either newbies who don't understand them, or regulars who already made up their mind (based on their own assessment). Also your comments are scattered haphazardly across various threads as is the nature of the chronological format.

    If you had a blog you could organise your text better (removing duplication). It might also get picked up by Google and be more conspicuous to people who are interested in due diligence on this company.

    Just a thought.
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 6th Mar 18, 8:19 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    LC&F corporate trustee solicitor suspended
    The director of Global Security Trustees Ltd, Tunbridge Wells, (text removed by MSE Forum Team), a non-practising solicitor and corporate trustee for London Capital and Finance has been suspended for a year

    An article recently appeared 27 February 2018 (text removed by MSE Forum Team) entitled: Tribunal rejects solicitor's agreement with SRA to strike him off over dubious investment schemes.

    https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/tribunal-rejects-solicitors-agreement-sra-strike-off-dubious-investment-schemes

    A solicitor, (text removed by MSE Forum Team), who agreed with the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) that he would be struck off for his role in dubious investment schemes involving carbon credits has instead ended up being suspended for a year as of 14th February 2018 after the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal (SDT) decided that the sanction was not justified.

    The solicitor, now retired from Buss Murton Law LLP, Tunbridge Wells, where he was a managing partner and consultant, is the sole director and corporate trustee for the London Capital and Finance corporate trust, although it, Global Security Trustees Ltd, is an active dormant company. Robert Sedgwick is related to (text removed by MSE Forum Team), the CEO of London Capital and Finance, Tunbridge Wells, through previous directorships, e.g. Lakeview Country Club, and recommendations on LinkedIn.

    http://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/global-business-security-limited-09846126/

    There is a close working relationship over the years between Buss Murton and London Capital and Finance CEO Andy Thomson, and related directors, as in Lakeview Country Club Ltd where Thomson was the CEO and Buss Murton (Nominees) Ltd the sole owner of the property. At one point in the early months of LC&F, the financial team gave the four offices of Buss Murton, Cranbrook etc, as the offices of LC&F. Again, although Robert Mannering Sedgwick is the sole director of the LC&F corporate trust start-up company Global Security Trustees, in the early months of the mini-bond launch the LC&F website stated GST was a 200 year old company, although in reality merely associating the start-up GST with the over 200 year old Buss Murton Law business.
    Last edited by bail-in; 23-03-2018 at 5:31 AM.
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 1
    London Capital and Finance Mini-bond Review Part 2
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