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  • FIRST POST
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news.
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 15, 7:25 AM
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news. 9th Jun 15 at 7:25 AM
    I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread for posting general news items that may be of interest.

    PV and the 'Solar in the news' thread attract a lot of interest, so here's a thread for all the other goings on.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 62
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 19th Apr 18, 11:46 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Just to say that coal is back. Did anyone notice it was gone?

    It's now generating 0.3GW, but the UK no-coal record of 40hrs 40mins was beaten this week with a no-coal period of 54hrs 50mins.

    Great news.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 19th Apr 18, 5:49 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Interesting news, the planned Coire Glas pumped storage hydro-electric project, is suggesting a change to its power capacity from 600MW to 1,500MW so that it can do more when needed.

    This would reduce it's potential from 50hrs to 20hrs, but that makes a lot of sense.

    Also, at 30GWh it would be a huge storage resource, and 6% of the theoretical 500GWh of storage that the UK would need in a 100% RE scenario. [100% assuming the 13% from gas is actually supplied by bio-gas.]

    Planned change to Scotland's biggest hydro project

    SSE has sought permission to increase the generating capacity of its planned Coire Glas pumped storage hydro-electric project.

    The energy company was granted permission for a 600MW-capacity scheme in 2013 and has now sought approval to increase it to 1,500MW.

    The Scottish government has been asked to approve the change to the proposal at site near Spean Bridge in Lochaber.

    It would be the largest capacity hydro project to be built in Scotland.

    The project would also be the first new pumped storage scheme to be developed in Britain since 1974, when work began at the Dinorwig scheme in Wales.

    One million homes
    SSE said Coire Glas would have a storage capacity of up to 30 gigawatt hours (GWh), more than doubling the existing pumped storage capacity of the UK which is currently 24GWh.

    The company said the 30GWh was in relation to the size of the scheme's reservoir and the amount of water this can store.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 19th Apr 18, 6:33 PM
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    Exiled Tyke
    Yes I was wrong about the grid cost I thought it was 10p turns out it was 30p/d
    But does that in any way fundamentally change the argument I was making (which wasn't even to you but to generali the Australian poster iirc) that the grid is cheap and reliable and we won't be disconnecting from it. If I recall the argument I was arguing against was the idea that people will install solar and disconnect from the grid and as people do that the grid will get more expensive for those left so more would disconnected etc etc. I pointed out that was a silly idea because 50+ million additional buildings are connecting to the grid its not nowhere near negative numbers its 50+ million positive numbers and that's because the grid is cheap reliable and works very well.

    And yes I agree with you that local solar is better than central solar simply because as transport and heating is eletified it will mean presidential usage night go from 3MWh to 10MWh per property. Rooftop solar could mean less of a need to upgrade last mile grid infrastructure also lower losses if consumed nearby. But rooftops it won't be enough most roofs can't produce 10MWh and apartments have less roof per property so most of the power will still need to be imported probably mostly from offshore wind


    And once again you have no idea what the volume of production will be so how can you claim it won't impact prices? Nobody knows at this stage. But what is reasonably safe to deduce is that productive shale deposits can't be unique to north America. Every continent has conventional oil gas and coal and every continent will have productive shales. Maybe the UK has a large productive basin maybe it doesn't but there is more good to be had than harm in finding out.
    Originally posted by GreatApe
    OK Apologies for going off topic. Now I've had a bit more time to reflect and review what's going on here, I have to say I'm worried. I know I keep going on about the purpose of these boards and this thread in particular, but that's what I believe and I for one am fed up of discussions being dragged into defending RE and related issues. I was concerned that there appears to be a number of new players bringing up these arguments after others have disappeared and some of the posts above suggesting all might not be what they seem. So I've done some research and careful reading and I've come up short.

    So why bring up this post? Because this quote has got me wondering. The post is a reply to a previous post from Martyn where he says:

    'You will recall the pro-coal arguments from a year or so back, and of course the constant claims that I don't know what I'm talking about that went on for months when I said that grid supply costs were 30p per day not 10p as he claimed.'

    GreatApe responds as you can see above. 'Yes I wrong about the grid cost...'

    But here's my issue. I can't find any reference to GreatApe discussing this previously. I'll be happily corrected if I'm wrong.

    So when did you say this GreatApe? Or perhaps a better question would be put to Martyn :Who did you call out on grid costs, and for which GreatApe is now accepting responsibility for?
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • MSE Andrea
    • By MSE Andrea 20th Apr 18, 1:00 PM
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    MSE Andrea
    --------------------

    ^^^^

    See that line above. That's the line we're drawing under all previous disagreements.



    This ^^^ is the slate being wiped clean



    And that ^^^ is everyone kissing and making up


    From this point onwards this discussion is going back to the original topic - about Green Energy in the News. If you want to discuss why you feel Green energy isn't all it's cracked up to be please do it in the new thread "Green energies vs other energies" that one of you is about to start on this board

    Please stick to the appropriate threads but at all times, on all threads please remember all opinions are different, it's what makes us individual, what makes healthy debate great. No-one should be taking sideswipes at anyone because they have a different opinion. Take that step back. If you find you're about to say something that isn't nice just don't post please. If someone posts in a way you feel breaks our rules, report the post, add that person to your ignore list and leave it for us to take a look.

    Thank you!
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    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 21st Apr 18, 7:36 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Just to say that coal is back. Did anyone notice it was gone?

    It's now generating 0.3GW, but the UK no-coal record of 40hrs 40mins was beaten this week with a no-coal period of 54hrs 50mins.

    Great news.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    There's more!

    Great Britain Goes 55 Hours Without Using Coal
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 21st Apr 18, 7:40 AM
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    Martyn1981
    So, what should the UK / UK government do?

    What steps can the UK take to reach net zero emissions by 2050?

    The government has pledged to review its long-term climate targets. Renewable energy, housing and and transport are just some areas where new policies could cut emissions fast

    More wind farms, solar power and electric cars: these are likely to be the future of the UK, under government plans announced this week to seek a zero-carbon economy in the next 30 years.

    Some of the less obvious effects could be just as transformative, however, involving innovations such as smart houses and smart roads, widespread changes to the countryside wrought by new tree-planting and new farming practices designed to conserve soils.

    There may need to be restrictions, too – in air travel, private transport, new building construction and our food and waste habits.
    Who'd have thunk!
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 23rd Apr 18, 8:08 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Looks like we'll be able to add Belgium to the growing list of European countries expecting subsidy free off-shore wind generation in the short to medium term.

    If we include the carbon cost then we should see wind undercutting gas generation and continuing to reduce its share of leccy generation.

    This item is from Chris Goodall's weekly carbon commentary.

    7, Belgian offshore wind. Belgium said it expected new offshore wind to be built with zero subsidy and targeted 4 GW by 2030, up from less than 1 GW today. A 2017 auction saw a guaranteed price of €79 per megawatt hour, but recent bids around the North Sea have seen much lower prices and Belgium expects to be able to achieve prices below €50. As with the Netherlands, Belgium covers the costs of grid connection centrally and has installed an offshore hub to which wind farms can connect. This is the right model for offshore; the infrastructure should be built by a central authority that allows electricity suppliers to plug in. (The UK does things differently, obliging wind farms to each create their own connection to the shore). A rational European policy for offshore wind would go further than Belgium’s approach, and build new islands in the North Sea that allowed power to move from country to country.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 23rd Apr 18, 7:49 PM
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    silverwhistle
    If we include the carbon cost then we should see wind undercutting gas generation and continuing to reduce its share of leccy generation.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    In other news of our lack of a government with any coherent plan for anything, I note that the Midland mainline electrification scheme has been knocked on the head by our wonderful transport secretary Chris Grayling by, inter alia, taking carbon savings out of the cost benefit analysis. There's more to this depressing story of lack of investment, foresight, environmental concern, longer term running costs (bi-mode trains, I ask you!)...
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 24th Apr 18, 12:40 PM
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    Martyn1981
    And even more.

    The 55hr record didn't last long, we are now in a 72hr+ period.

    UK runs without coal power for three days in a row

    National Grid has forecast electricity demand this summer will be lower than last year, with minimum demand at 17GW and peak at 33.7GW. Demand on Tuesday is expected to peak at about 35GW.

    Experts said to expect more milestones this year. “Ever rising renewable capacity in the UK will see these records fall more and more frequently, clearly showing progress made over the past decade or two,” said Jonathan Marshall, an analyst at the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit.

    However, one observer cautioned that the shift away from coal could be a “false dawn” if it was just replaced by gas.

    Andrew Crossland, who tracks electricity generation on the MyGridGB site, said: “Shifting to gas is likely to make our electricity market more volatile as our energy price becomes increasingly locked to international gas markets. That will only hurt consumers.”

    A carbon tax, the cheaper price of gas and the rise of renewables have all hit coal operators. The government has set a deadline of October 2025 for phasing out coal entirely.
    It's been fun watching the percentage of generation from coal dropping fast the last few years (and of course the sum of FF's), now it's time to see the gas percentage come down as more RE is deployed.*

    *Though the rollout of EV's may benefit gas for a while if the switch to leccy is faster than the deployment of RE. Fun to watch.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 24th Apr 18, 3:37 PM
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    silverwhistle
    now it's time to see the gas percentage come down as more RE is deployed.*
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Absolutely. And given the current reliance on gas you'd think we'd have better storage available. We don't even seem to have tactical storage let alone a strategic reserve.

    It's a miserable wet and windy day here on the south coast (but have still got a hot tank of water from my PV) but I notice the Rampion field, which I first became aware of during a dirty weekend in Brighton a year and a bit ago, now has all its turbines operational.

    From memory I believe it has 3.25/3.5MW turbines and can power half of Sussex. Imagine if it had the newer 6/8/10MW turbines! It's this incremental progress which most people don't even notice that is so important.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 24th Apr 18, 3:45 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Absolutely. And given the current reliance on gas you'd think we'd have better storage available. We don't even seem to have tactical storage let alone a strategic reserve.

    It's a miserable wet and windy day here on the south coast (but have still got a hot tank of water from my PV) but I notice the Rampion field, which I first became aware of during a dirty weekend in Brighton a year and a bit ago, now has all its turbines operational.

    From memory I believe it has 3.25/3.5MW turbines and can power half of Sussex. Imagine if it had the newer 6/8/10MW turbines! It's this incremental progress which most people don't even notice that is so important.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle
    Yep, Rampion started delivering power late Nov. It has 3.45MW WT's, changed from 7MW due to planning issues and a total farm reduction from 700MW to 400MW.

    VIDEO: Rampion wind farm is completed
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 24th Apr 18, 6:19 PM
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    ASavvyBuyer
    Yep, Rampion started delivering power late Nov. It has 3.45MW WT's, changed from 7MW due to planning issues and a total farm reduction from 700MW to 400MW.

    VIDEO: Rampion wind farm is completed
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    You can see in real time what it and other offshore windfarms are generating here
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers & REUK Diverter
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    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 30th Apr 18, 8:05 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Interesting item from this weekend's Carbon Commentary looking at the change in opinion over wind farms:-

    2, Public attitudes to wind. The UK government published the results of its regular survey into public opinion on energy. The support for onshore wind has strengthened. More are in favour (76%), and fewer are opposed (9%), than ever before. Nevertheless, all but the smallest wind developments are effectively blocked by government policy in the UK. (Some other European states are moving in the same direction). UK policy is driven by the fact that the current government!!!8217;s strongest supporters are predominantly old and old people tend to oppose wind. But one fact not picked by the wide coverage of the survey in British publications is that most of the recent increase in support for wind, and the reduction in opposition, came from the over 65+ age group. In the latest survey just 14% of over 65s opposed onshore wind but almost five times as many supported it. It should not be long before policy changes back to supporting the cheapest form of electricity generation in the UK. (More on this at Carbon Commentary).
    This weekend popped up to 'our' 2.3MW local WT with some MSE visitor friends. Standing approx 50-100m from the base we noted zero noise coming from the blades. It was doing 12rpm, so a light wind, as it usually runs at approx 20rpm in stronger winds, but whenever I've stopped for a look and listen when cycling passed in the past, I've never been able to hear any noise from it.

    I suspect the increase in popularity for on-shore wind, but more importantly, the drop in opposition, is that the reality of deployment is overtaking the fear of the unknown.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 30-04-2018 at 11:56 AM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Coastalwatch
    • By Coastalwatch 30th Apr 18, 9:36 AM
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    Coastalwatch
    Interesting item from this weekend's Carbon Commentary looking at the change in opinion over wind farms:-



    This weekend popped up to 'our' 2.3MW local WT with some MSE visitor friends. Standing approx 50-100m from the base we noted zero noise coming from the blades. It was doing 12rpm, so a light wind, as it usually runs at approx 20rpm in stronger winds, but whenever I've stopped for a look and listen when cycling passed in the past, I've never been able to hear any noise from it.

    I suspect the increase in popularity for on-shore wind, but more importantly, the drop in opposition, is that the reality of deployment is overtaking the fear of the unknown.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Thanks Mart, an interesting post as I've long struggled to understand the opposition to onshore wind farms. Admittedly there have been no proposals for the develpment of one in our area, but being of that guilty generation, I've always likened them affectionately to windmills. Being nothing more than big friendly giants and far preferable to the addition of another nuclear station along the coast at Sizewell. As you state, it's perhaps fear of the unknown that drives people into opposition. But when wind power has been harnessed for the good of mankind for centuries, I've certainly struggled to understand why. On this topic at least and in the words of Bob Dylan lets truly hope "The times they are a changing"!
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. 2 x dirty diesels. Waiting for V2H to be made available so I can choose a suitable EV to replace at least one of them!
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 30th Apr 18, 11:50 AM
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    Martyn1981
    TOn this topic at least and in the words of Bob Dylan lets truly hope "The times they are a changing"!
    Originally posted by Coastalwatch
    It's nice to see that 'mothers and fathers' (actually grandmothers and grandfathers) are coming round, perhaps the article is right and politicians will do so too.

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don't stand in the doorway
    Don't block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There's a battle outside and it is ragin'
    It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin'


    Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don't criticize
    What you can't understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is rapidly agin'
    Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin'
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 30-04-2018 at 11:53 AM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Coastalwatch
    • By Coastalwatch 30th Apr 18, 1:14 PM
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    Coastalwatch
    Hmmm, yes maybe. But don't bank anything much on my thoughts. Being out of step with the majority of my generation, I voted remain.
    Just to get back a little closer on topic I'd like to pose the following question:-
    If we all had V2H and/or storage then would the requirement for V2G still stand up?
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. 2 x dirty diesels. Waiting for V2H to be made available so I can choose a suitable EV to replace at least one of them!
    • legoman62
    • By legoman62 30th Apr 18, 3:53 PM
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    legoman62
    Thanks Mart, an interesting post as I've long struggled to understand the opposition to onshore wind farms. Admittedly there have been no proposals for the develpment of one in our area, but being of that guilty generation, I've always likened them affectionately to windmills. Being nothing more than big friendly giants and far preferable to the addition of another nuclear station along the coast at Sizewell. As you state, it's perhaps fear of the unknown that drives people into opposition. But when wind power has been harnessed for the good of mankind for centuries, I've certainly struggled to understand why. On this topic at least and in the words of Bob Dylan lets truly hope "The times they are a changing"!
    Originally posted by Coastalwatch
    Or maybe this Bob Dylan oldie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWwgrjjIMXA
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    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 30th Apr 18, 5:37 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Hmmm, yes maybe. But don't bank anything much on my thoughts. Being out of step with the majority of my generation, I voted remain.
    Just to get back a little closer on topic I'd like to pose the following question:-
    If we all had V2H and/or storage then would the requirement for V2G still stand up?
    Originally posted by Coastalwatch
    I suppose they are very similar, but whereas V2H would provide your power needs, or some of it, V2G would mean vehicles parked up charging almost anywhere could help support the grid, and your vehicle might provide more power than you need in order to export some too and support the grid. The same with domestic batteries where you could be paid something closer to peak rates for any energy you export during demand peaks/price peaks.

    Boring bit now - but just in case some numpty wants to start a pedant argument - power on the distribution networks can't go back up to the transmission network, but ..... if the 'grid' is struggling with centralised supply across Britain, or even just in one area, then vehicle or stationary batteries on the distribution network will reduce the amount of supply needed from The National Grid, by reducing demand at the sharp end.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 30th Apr 18, 5:38 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Or maybe this Bob Dylan oldie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWwgrjjIMXA
    Originally posted by legoman62
    Perfect! LOL.

    I'm a Dylan fan, I particularly love Shelter from the Storm - Jerry Maquire soundtrack.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 30-04-2018 at 5:41 PM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Coastalwatch
    • By Coastalwatch 30th Apr 18, 6:22 PM
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    Coastalwatch
    Or maybe this Bob Dylan oldie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWwgrjjIMXA
    Originally posted by legoman62
    Nice one Mart . My siblings and I drove our parents nuts in the sixties trying to emulate him, guitar and all. Although never having mastered that instrument I naturally didn't attempt the mouth organ in tandem.
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. 2 x dirty diesels. Waiting for V2H to be made available so I can choose a suitable EV to replace at least one of them!
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