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  • FIRST POST
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 6:25 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks)
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 15, 6:25 AM
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks) 9th Jun 15 at 6:25 AM
    MSE Insert:

    We've seen some debate on this thread about the relevance of some posts to the topic.

    To ensure the thread remains on topic for forumites wanting to discuss the latest news we're asking that all posts contain a link to the news you're discussing.

    For the purposes of this thread the "news" needs to be within the last two weeks.

    Back to Martyn1981's original post.

    ---

    I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread for posting general news items that may be of interest.

    PV and the 'Solar in the news' thread attract a lot of interest, so here's a thread for all the other goings on.

    Mart.
    Last edited by Former MSE Andrea; 09-10-2018 at 9:41 AM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 103
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 7th Apr 19, 8:33 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Had to post this as it's such a brilliant headline.

    For background, this week Trump gave a presentation and at it he said that living near wind mills gives you cancer, and knocks 75% off the value of your home, and the ground around them is littered with dead birds. Cue ......

    Ohhhhh burn!
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    So much burn, he's going to need sunscreen:

    Skyscrapers are killing up to 1bn birds a year in US, scientists estimate

    Trump suggested little crosses should be placed on the ground around WT's, so I can see a possible campaign growing in the US around his Trump properties. Not a funny subject matter, but the irony overload is off the chart, it's got to a Spinal Tap 11, at least.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 8th Apr 19, 3:56 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Australia is continuing to research and expand the use of hydrogen. The idea being to ship sunlight around the world - solar leccy used to produce hydrogen.

    'The perfect storm': hydrogen gains ground on LNG as alternative fuel
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • pile-o-stone
    • By pile-o-stone 8th Apr 19, 7:43 PM
    • 128 Posts
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    pile-o-stone
    Australia is continuing to research and expand the use of hydrogen. The idea being to ship sunlight around the world - solar leccy used to produce hydrogen.

    'The perfect storm': hydrogen gains ground on LNG as alternative fuel
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    They could fill large dirigibles with hydrogen and use solar powered engines to fly the hydrogen overseas. What could possibly go wrong?



    Or alternatively:

    "Another option is to combine the hydrogen with nitrogen to make ammonia. It’s a technique that is well-established, and has been done on an industrial scale for nearly a century, Dolan says. Ammonia can be compressed into a liquid at much more moderate temperatures, and is relatively easy to transport.

    What was missing – until recently – was the technology to extract the hydrogen back out of the ammonia at the other end of the export equation. However CSIRO recently announced the establishment of a pilot plant to test technology that can refine a 100% pure stream of hydrogen from gasified ammonia using a metal membrane.

    The pilot will start by generating just five kilograms of hydrogen a day from ammonia, but it is hoped this proof of concept will be the last link in the chain exporting Australian sunshine to Japanese, Korean or even European shores."


    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/may/19/how-australia-can-use-hydrogen-to-export-its-solar-power-around-the-world
    Last edited by pile-o-stone; 08-04-2019 at 7:52 PM.
    5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
    Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 300L thermal store.
    Vegan household with 100% composted food waste
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 10th Apr 19, 12:40 PM
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    GreatApe
    Australia is continuing to research and expand the use of hydrogen. The idea being to ship sunlight around the world - solar leccy used to produce hydrogen.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Won't work

    There is sunshine everywhere why turn high grade fuel (electricity) to much lower grade fuel (hydrogen) to even lower grade fuel (ammonia) with each step requiring chemical plants, people and capital, time and losses along the way
    • mmmmikey
    • By mmmmikey 10th Apr 19, 1:09 PM
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    • 265 Thanks
    mmmmikey
    There is sunshine everywhere why turn high grade fuel (electricity) to much lower grade fuel (hydrogen) to even lower grade fuel (ammonia) with each step requiring chemical plants, people and capital, time and losses along the way
    Originally posted by GreatApe

    The answer to your question is fairly simple


    Although there is sunshine everywhere, where I live there's rather more of it in the summer than the winter, with my solar panels generating on average 10 times more energy per day in June than December. And that sunshine isn't very evenly districuted globally either.



    Any technology that allows my summer energy to be bottled up and used when I need it rather than wasted has to be a good thing. Similarly, I'd be very happy to buy in solar energy from Australia once the science has been developed enough for that to happen. Granted, when you take into account conversion efficiencies, pollution, etc. the economics & benefits may not be there yet (and may or may not ever get there) the potential benefits are so obvious and huge that it has to be worth investigating.


    A few years ago people were saying wind energy was a waste of time and we'd have to have solar farms the size of Wales to make it worthwhile, but those folks have certainly been proved wrong.


    These things take time and take patience and acceptance that the goal is worth the risk of the occasional false start. Much easier to stand on the sidelines and make negative comments than to actually get these things working!
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 10th Apr 19, 3:52 PM
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    Martyn1981
    The answer to your question is fairly simple
    Originally posted by mmmmikey
    Yep, fairly simple, plus it's also interesting to compare the two countries, one having a relatively small population and vast amounts of open land, the other having a large population, high density and quite a lot of mountains. It's also a reason why one of them is looking into off-shore wind and floating off-shore wind more than the other - almost sounds a bit like the UK?

    But there's also another answer - Japan is not stupid, neither is Australia, so if they can both see a market that has potential value, then presumably they know more about this than we do.

    Edit - Also, this isn't new news, it's been talked about for several years, and I've definitely posted 'stuff' in the past, and mentioned Japan and Australia formulating new shipping rules to apply to transporting Hydrogen. The new news bit is at the start of the article:

    In March, the Queensland University of Technology made history when it achieved the first export of a small quantity of clean, green hydrogen produced in Australia from renewable energy, to Japanese energy giant JXTG – proving that it was in fact possible.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 10-04-2019 at 3:56 PM. Reason: Added an edit
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 11th Apr 19, 11:48 AM
    • 2,994 Posts
    • 2,499 Thanks
    GreatApe
    The answer to your question is fairly simple

    Although there is sunshine everywhere, where I live there's rather more of it in the summer than the winter, with my solar panels generating on average 10 times more energy per day in June than December. And that sunshine isn't very evenly districuted globally either.

    Any technology that allows my summer energy to be bottled up and used when I need it rather than wasted has to be a good thing. Similarly, I'd be very happy to buy in solar energy from Australia once the science has been developed enough for that to happen. Granted, when you take into account conversion efficiencies, pollution, etc. the economics & benefits may not be there yet (and may or may not ever get there) the potential benefits are so obvious and huge that it has to be worth investigating.

    A few years ago people were saying wind energy was a waste of time and we'd have to have solar farms the size of Wales to make it worthwhile, but those folks have certainly been proved wrong.

    These things take time and take patience and acceptance that the goal is worth the risk of the occasional false start. Much easier to stand on the sidelines and make negative comments than to actually get these things working!
    Originally posted by mmmmikey

    It will never be able to beat inter connectors

    What would be more sane?

    To build a worldwide electricity grid so solar can act as base load (or even load following) and these inter connectors might have 5-10% losses and are for all intents just pieces of inert copper that will last hundreds of years and emit no pollutants

    Or to build masses and masses of chemical plants to distill water, create hydrogen, create ammonia, liquefy the lot, build ships, docks, ports, chemical plants, offloading ports, pipelines for all this, then CCGTs to convert the lot back into electricity and going from electron to electron losing perhaps more than 75%. And paying for all the people to manage run and maintain this massive infrastructure?

    It is not about research getting chemical plants cheaper, no amount of research is going to beat thermodynamic limits no amount of research is going to make the above cheaper than pieces of copper stick in the ground.

    If you need summer to winter you stick a piece of copper in the ground from the southern hemisphere to the northern. If you need to shift peak output by 8 hours you stick a piece of copper in the ground going east or west by 8 hours of timezone


    But having said this, much more likely is you do none of this instead you opt fro 50% capacity factor offshore wind with 80% correlation over a country the size of the UK with some inter-connectors to nearby nations and accept some curtailment and the result is you can electrify more or less all needs (electricity transport and heating) without having to magic up high grade fuel to low grade fuel mass chemical industries or a worldwide grid
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 11th Apr 19, 12:28 PM
    • 4,647 Posts
    • 6,218 Thanks
    zeupater
    They could fill large dirigibles with hydrogen and use solar powered engines to fly the hydrogen overseas. What could possibly go wrong?



    Or alternatively:

    "Another option is to combine the hydrogen with nitrogen to make ammonia. It’s a technique that is well-established, and has been done on an industrial scale for nearly a century, Dolan says. Ammonia can be compressed into a liquid at much more moderate temperatures, and is relatively easy to transport.

    What was missing – until recently – was the technology to extract the hydrogen back out of the ammonia at the other end of the export equation. However CSIRO recently announced the establishment of a pilot plant to test technology that can refine a 100% pure stream of hydrogen from gasified ammonia using a metal membrane.

    The pilot will start by generating just five kilograms of hydrogen a day from ammonia, but it is hoped this proof of concept will be the last link in the chain exporting Australian sunshine to Japanese, Korean or even European shores."


    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/may/19/how-australia-can-use-hydrogen-to-export-its-solar-power-around-the-world
    Originally posted by pile-o-stone
    Hi

    Seeing that triggers memories of totally apt lyrics ..."Lots of people talk ... and few of them know", particularly for some that spin so much that they must be really D&C most of the time ...

    HTH
    LZ
    Last edited by zeupater; 11-04-2019 at 12:30 PM.
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 11th Apr 19, 12:34 PM
    • 2,994 Posts
    • 2,499 Thanks
    GreatApe
    Yep, fairly simple, plus it's also interesting to compare the two countries, one having a relatively small population and vast amounts of open land, the other having a large population, high density and quite a lot of mountains. It's also a reason why one of them is looking into off-shore wind and floating off-shore wind more than the other - almost sounds a bit like the UK?

    But there's also another answer - Japan is not stupid, neither is Australia, so if they can both see a market that has potential value, then presumably they know more about this than we do.

    Edit - Also, this isn't new news, it's been talked about for several years, and I've definitely posted 'stuff' in the past, and mentioned Japan and Australia formulating new shipping rules to apply to transporting Hydrogen. The new news bit is at the start of the article:
    Originally posted by Martyn1981

    Most ideas go nowhere surely you know that?
    Last edited by GreatApe; 12-04-2019 at 12:37 PM.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 16th Apr 19, 7:03 AM
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    Martyn1981
    For those that will recall the first subsidy free contracts for off-shore wind, well here is more meat on the bones for the one that will be completed first (2024).

    [Fingers crossed, the upcoming UK CfD auction in May may bring in close to subsidy free bids with caps of £56/MWh (2024) and £53/MWh (2025). The UK prices include the cost of infrastructure build out of the grid, whereas the German and Netherlands prices don't.]

    Siemens Gamesa 10 Megawatt Wind Turbine Set For World’s 1st Zero-Subsidy Offshore Wind Farm
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 16th Apr 19, 5:17 PM
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    Martyn1981
    It's electrifying.
    Sometimes we need cheering up, so here's a study explaining how we can meet 2050 Paris targets (even achieve it sooner), and how it will mean cheaper energy costs. So it's all doable ...... if we want to do it.

    Also, and just a personal thought, but as we hit the 2020's, I'd suggest that whilst still new, the idea of RE, EV's and heat pumps, is no longer 'new' news, just the direction of travel which we are staring to get used to already. I think 'normalizing' is the word I'm looking for.

    Want To Limit Global Warming? Electrify Everything, Finds Study
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • mmmmikey
    • By mmmmikey 16th Apr 19, 6:27 PM
    • 187 Posts
    • 265 Thanks
    mmmmikey
    As you say, makes cheery reading

    At a personal level, I was absolutely determined not to connect to the gas main when I moved a couple of years back. The decision to stay on electricity, supplemented by a woodstove, wasn't just about economics, it was also a matter of conviction and I would have stayed electric even if gas looked cheaper.

    For me, this forum is about reducing CO2 emmisions in the most moneysaving way, not about using green technology to reduce energy bills. But the fantastic news is that these two things are becoming more and more the same. I'm personally convinced that there really is a way forward, and looking forward to Brexit and Trump mania falling off the political agenda and focus returning to green issues.
    • Coastalwatch
    • By Coastalwatch 16th Apr 19, 9:11 PM
    • 508 Posts
    • 1,966 Thanks
    Coastalwatch
    Sometimes we need cheering up, so here's a study explaining how we can meet 2050 Paris targets (even achieve it sooner), and how it will mean cheaper energy costs. So it's all doable ...... if we want to do it.
    Also, and just a personal thought, but as we hit the 2020's, I'd suggest that whilst still new, the idea of RE, EV's and heat pumps, is no longer 'new' news, just the direction of travel which we are staring to get used to already. I think 'normalizing' is the word I'm looking for.
    Want To Limit Global Warming? Electrify Everything, Finds Study
    Originally posted by Martyn1981

    Can news get any better!
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus one dirty diesel. Still waiting for V2H and home storage to become available at sensible cost.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 17th Apr 19, 8:50 AM
    • 3,010 Posts
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    NigeWick
    Sometimes we need cheering up
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    My electricity from the grid is costing me about 40p per day, including the 30p "connection fee." The 10p is because the shower takes 9.8kW and the Tesla PW2 will only dish out 5kW and I don't get peak generation until about 11:00. If I had two PW2s...
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • JKenH
    • By JKenH 19th Apr 19, 6:09 AM
    • 312 Posts
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    JKenH
    Interesting article in the Daily Telegraph which is not noted for such strong views on ACC. The author is not an eco warrior but a very well respected economics/business commentator.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/04/18/extinction-rebels-right-risk-losing-livable-planet-green-technology/
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps
    • 1961Nick
    • By 1961Nick 19th Apr 19, 6:59 AM
    • 398 Posts
    • 1,914 Thanks
    1961Nick
    My electricity from the grid is costing me about 40p per day, including the 30p "connection fee." The 10p is because the shower takes 9.8kW and the Tesla PW2 will only dish out 5kW and I don't get peak generation until about 11:00. If I had two PW2s...
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    You could easily pay for another PW2 in 150 years.
    4kWp (black/black) - Sofar Inverter - SSE(141°) - 30° pitch - North Lincs
    Installed June 2013 - PVGIS = 3400

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    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 19th Apr 19, 12:15 PM
    • 3,010 Posts
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    NigeWick
    You could easily pay for another PW2 in 150 years.
    Originally posted by 1961Nick
    I could pay for one now but it would take about 30 years to recoup the cost.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
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