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  • FIRST POST
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 8th Jun 15, 9:51 AM
    • 35Posts
    • 37Thanks
    MrHockallz
    Project Solar panels quote.
    • #1
    • 8th Jun 15, 9:51 AM
    Project Solar panels quote. 8th Jun 15 at 9:51 AM
    Hi all,

    On Friday I had a quote for panels from Project Solar and would like to hear your thoughts.

    I have been quoted a 10 panel install of Evolution +10 panels and a Growatt inverter totalling a 2.50kWp with a voltage optimiser -and estimated output is 2255.00kwh per year

    The current quoted FiT rate is 0.1339. The cost of the system is 5523.81 incl labour 7250.

    I don't have 7k so have opted for finance yet the consultant never mentioned the totals - I found out later from the pre credit email to be 14.4k - this is supposed to be a 9.9% APR so I cant see how I'd be borrowing that much but OK. The credit agreement is 78.90pcm over 15 years but the guy said it would be paid off in 10 years - I assume this would be buy me overpaying from profits?
    Over 20 years - it is expected to earn me 20,172 (9460 FiT, 8,040 bill savings and 2671 VO savings) about 490 per year

    I'm a little concerned about the bill savings as these are based on estimated of 8.385 rises per year - is that feasible? The papers suggest in 25 years I'll be paying 2897 annually which seems ridiculous.

    Another concern I have is that they don't require a surveyor - the consultant said its because my neighbours have ten panels on the roof as well but no one has looked in my loft and I've only owned the home a week, I haven't even gone up in the loft yet!

    I did email them about the finance and got a pretty jargon response - if anyone can shed light on this I'd be grateful

    "As this is a balance reducing loan you never pay more than you borrow and only interest on the outstanding.
    This further protects the product for the period of the 180 months, so it would make sense to have a double indemnity on your goods which starts from the day of the loan to the end of the loan, irrespective of the settle early if you did.
    Most people settle within 4.2 years in full, a bank average."

    I have provisionally agreed install for 16th June but am waiting on more paperwork to sign and return and the guy mentioned the FiT is being reviewed the 1st July and is likely to go down - I felt pressured (a little) into getting my skates on.

    To add to the mix I have had an Ikea-Hanergy quote and they have quoted a 2.25kWp system with a total revenue of 13,395 (predicted) at a cost of 5329 including the finance 44pcm for 10 years - seems a no brainer but I have read mixed reviews on the panels. They also use independent surveyors which I;d have to pay for but the consultant there says it removes bias, which makes sense I suppose

    Sorry for the long post but am just a little in the dark - I like the sound of the Project Solar quote more but the questions over the estimated leccy prices and finance figures is brining up alarm bells - not to mention lack of a survey.

    Any help would be much appreciated.
    Last edited by MrHockallz; 08-06-2015 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Posted too early
Page 1
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 8th Jun 15, 10:17 AM
    • 9,435 Posts
    • 14,323 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:17 AM
    • #2
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:17 AM
    Cancel it!

    Cancel it now!

    Take pity on a random stranger from S. Wales and cancel it!

    Make my day, and cancel it now!

    Then we can all chat about sensible prices at half that figure, and real leccy savings.

    Mart.

    PS Hiya, and welcome.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Markj1110
    • By Markj1110 8th Jun 15, 10:47 AM
    • 912 Posts
    • 5,784 Thanks
    Markj1110
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:47 AM
    • #3
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:47 AM
    Good Grief!! As Mart says, cancel it now and run!:

    I know you are looking at the finance side, but there must be cheaper alternatives. I have recently installed a system, but took the time to get as many quotes as possible and asked loads of questions before I purchased mine. This forum was extremely helpful with getting me to understand the jargon used and now I have a much better understanding of what you can get.

    Take your time, get plenty of quotes, don't be pressured into making decision based on the FIT payment going down, in the grand scheme of things its only a few quid a year, maybe even single figures per year!!

    Mark
    3.96 kWp System, SSE Facing, 30 Degree Pitch, 12 x 330W BenQ Panels, Solar Edge Inverter, Lincoln, Lincolnshire. Installed 26th May 2015.
    • JimLad
    • By JimLad 8th Jun 15, 10:56 AM
    • 916 Posts
    • 1,530 Thanks
    JimLad
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:56 AM
    • #4
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:56 AM
    oh my gosh!!!! RIP OFF ALERT
    Mortgage Free 22/03/17
    MissWillow is my OH!
    • EricMears
    • By EricMears 8th Jun 15, 10:57 AM
    • 2,548 Posts
    • 4,412 Thanks
    EricMears
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:57 AM
    • #5
    • 8th Jun 15, 10:57 AM
    I'm guessing that you're considering a ten panel system because that's all that will fit on your roof ? If indeed that's true, then ten higher wattage panels should also fit and give more generation.

    The price quoted is far more than others on this forum have recently paid for a full 4kWp (i.e. 16 x 250Wp panels) system. Quoting materials and labour separately seems designed to encourage a favourable comparison with other companies who'd give a comprehensive quote; it's certainly not an option to buy their materials and shop around for another fitter !

    From the quote, FIT payments of approx. 300 could be expected. You might (if you're very lucky !) save 150 pa on imported electricity. An income of 450pa (37 pcm) is nowhere near enough to cover proposed loan repayments of 78.

    BTW, I wouldn't be too concerned about chances of roof collapsing. If you've just bought, I assume you had some sort of survey and even a half blind surveyor would have noticed rotting roof timbers. However, fitters are supposed to be working to Building Regs so ought to be trying to prove the roof structure is adequate rather than hoping for best.

    I second Martyn's advice (and that of the others who can type faster than me) to cancel that contract and look for something better.
    Last edited by EricMears; 08-06-2015 at 10:59 AM.
    NE Derbyshire.
    4kWp S Facing 17.5deg slope (dormer roof).
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 8th Jun 15, 11:17 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MrHockallz
    • #6
    • 8th Jun 15, 11:17 AM
    • #6
    • 8th Jun 15, 11:17 AM
    Thanks for the quick replies

    I have now cancelled the installation Mart - rest easy

    I should have realised it seemed too good to be true!

    EricMears - this is the first real quote I've had and kinda dived in - I haven't really looked at how many panels I could get fitted in all honesty - seems a little naive on my part now.

    The Hanergy quote seemed a little more realistic in my mind but I could be wrong.

    Can anyone make any recommendations or point me in the direction of some unbiased help/figures/costs?
    • tunnel
    • By tunnel 8th Jun 15, 1:06 PM
    • 2,581 Posts
    • 7,978 Thanks
    tunnel
    • #7
    • 8th Jun 15, 1:06 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jun 15, 1:06 PM
    Post your rough location on here, roof pitch, orientation(direction) and if possible try to get an idea of the size of your roof.
    Most of the guys/gals on here will help you as much as possible to get the right deal at the right price, including recommendations for local installers


    Ps, GOOD WORK CANCELLING, that was a total rip off....as you already know now.
    2 kWp SEbE , 2kWp SSW & 2.5kWp NWbW.....in sunny North Derbyshire
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 8th Jun 15, 1:55 PM
    • 9,435 Posts
    • 14,323 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    • #8
    • 8th Jun 15, 1:55 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jun 15, 1:55 PM
    Thanks for the quick replies

    I have now cancelled the installation Mart - rest easy

    Can anyone make any recommendations or point me in the direction of some unbiased help/figures/costs?
    Originally posted by MrHockallz
    Phew! Thanks for that, I'll be able to sleep soundly tonight.

    Eric raised an important point, how big is your roof? Sometimes the rip-off guys just quote a small(ish) size so that they can throw on a system and run.

    If you can get some rough measurements, then more detailed help can be given, but there are options for slightly more powerful panels, and also high efficiency panels, but these do cost more.

    Price wise, lots of threads on here with people getting under 5k for 4kWp, and most prices under 6k.

    Some nighttime reading for you to get started in the PV FAQs.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 8th Jun 15, 8:54 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MrHockallz
    • #9
    • 8th Jun 15, 8:54 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jun 15, 8:54 PM
    Thanks for the help all so far, much appreciated

    My home buyers survey says 'approximately south' and the guy from project Solar said south as well so I'm assuming that's correct.

    I'm not 100% sure on roof size, if the Project Solar gen is to be believed its 40m2 and an LG roof calculator site (which I'm not allowed to post the link to apparently) also suggests about 40m2.
    • MEVW62
    • By MEVW62 8th Jun 15, 9:37 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    MEVW62
    An alternative is to find your house on Google Maps satellite view, zoom in as close as you can get and then look at the scale in the bottom right corner. You can measure off the screen with a plastic ruler or print it out and measure that. You also get the orientation from this (due south at the bottom, as in standard maps).

    It's a bit rough and ready but it'll give you an idea at least of the roof width. Total roof area on its own isn't terribly helpful as you'll have to go round obstacles such as chimneys, soil stacks, velux/dormer windows, etc.
    If you know the pitch of your roof and some basic trigonometry you can also work out the depth. Most panels are around 1m wide by 1.5/1.6m deep so you should be able to get get an idea for how many might be accommodated. Bear in mind that they can't go right to the edges or overhang.
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 8th Jun 15, 9:49 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MrHockallz
    Well based on the calculation from that site and from the Project Solar report my roof is 8 metres by 5 metres and the LG site is estimating a 3-5kw system with up to 18 panels. I know that's an estimate but its pretty encouraging. As for roof obstacles its pretty clear no skylights and the chimney is on the north facing side.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 6:01 AM
    • 9,435 Posts
    • 14,323 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Well based on the calculation from that site and from the Project Solar report my roof is 8 metres by 5 metres and the LG site is estimating a 3-5kw system with up to 18 panels. I know that's an estimate but its pretty encouraging. As for roof obstacles its pretty clear no skylights and the chimney is on the north facing side.
    Originally posted by MrHockallz
    Hi. That all sounds quite promising. You can measure the width of the roof simply by measuring the wall at ground level.

    Running with 8m by 5m and allowing for panel gaps (20mm) and approx 200mm to 300mm round the edges (sides - wind lift, bottom - gutter run-off, top - too close to ridge which might raise property profile which requires planning permission), suggests:

    7 panels by 2 panels in portrait 7.14m by 3.2m.

    4 panels by 4 panels in landscape 6.5m by 4.1m.

    Aiming for 4kWp to max out the highest FiT rate (it drops by 10% if you go over 4) then 16 250Wp panels, or 14 slightly more powerful panels perhaps 270Wp to 285Wp. Panel sizes based on approx 1m by 1.6m.

    So plenty of options, and if no obstructions or shading, then a relatively simple system ....... famous last words.

    Have a trawl (not troll) at the G&E threads, and you'll see lots of discussions on prices, quotes and deals people have signed up to. They are typically all under 6k now, with a large number in the 5k (or even lower) range.

    Are you comfortable working out the income streams? See the FAQs for a breakdown. You were right to question the astronomical energy price inflation figures.

    Also, there's a FiT degression of 3.5% on 1/7/15. I think you'd be better off simply assuming you'll miss that now, and concentrate on getting a good install and good quote, rather than rush to beat the 3.5% and end up paying 10% more for the install.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 9th Jun 15, 12:43 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MrHockallz
    Another query I have is would solar panels have any effect on my mortgage?
    Would I need to inform my mortgage company and would it affect remortgaging at a later date?

    Also is it worth considering this if I would need to apply for credit or would it only really be worth it to buy outright?

    Thanks again all for the help.
    • tunnel
    • By tunnel 9th Jun 15, 2:10 PM
    • 2,581 Posts
    • 7,978 Thanks
    tunnel
    Another query I have is would solar panels have any effect on my mortgage?
    Would I need to inform my mortgage company and would it affect remortgaging at a later date?

    Also is it worth considering this if I would need to apply for credit or would it only really be worth it to buy outright?

    Thanks again all for the help.
    Originally posted by MrHockallz
    Only time the panels will affect your mortgage is if you have rent a roof(RaR) panels on your roof, these having to take a lease over your roof for a 25 year period. Some folk have mentioned a new mortgage being harder to source, how true it is is anyones guess but would you risk it?


    If you buy the panels the only people that need to know about them are you and probably your insurance company, would you inform your insurance company about a new conservatory/ new windows or even a re-roof for instance


    Lastly I actually bought my WNW on a 0% purchase credit card if that helps
    2 kWp SEbE , 2kWp SSW & 2.5kWp NWbW.....in sunny North Derbyshire
    • Pulpdiction
    • By Pulpdiction 9th Jun 15, 2:30 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 288 Thanks
    Pulpdiction
    Sorry if this is pedantic, but have you checked you have actually cancelled the whole agreement and not just the install, you need to make sure the whole thing is cancelled properly.

    I'd just hate to see you on here in a few weeks saying they are forcing you to take the system as you only cancelled the installation, not the agreement.
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 9th Jun 15, 4:24 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MrHockallz
    Sorry if this is pedantic, but have you checked you have actually cancelled the whole agreement and not just the install, you need to make sure the whole thing is cancelled properly.

    I'd just hate to see you on here in a few weeks saying they are forcing you to take the system as you only cancelled the installation, not the agreement.
    Originally posted by Pulpdiction
    Funnily enough I was having the same thought as it seemed a little too easy. I just called them back and it seems my agreement was not cancelled and there was another staff member I needed to speak to. She was on a call apparently but the lady I spoke to said she will email the information through and the are going to email me confirmation the agreement has been cancelled.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 5:05 PM
    • 9,435 Posts
    • 14,323 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Another query I have is would solar panels have any effect on my mortgage?
    Would I need to inform my mortgage company and would it affect remortgaging at a later date?

    Also is it worth considering this if I would need to apply for credit or would it only really be worth it to buy outright?

    Thanks again all for the help.
    Originally posted by MrHockallz
    As tunnel said, do they need to know. Is there anything about 'material changes to the property' (I just made that up) or something similar? If in doubt you could ask, though it might just confuse the person you speak to.

    Is there any chance of adding the PV cost to the mortgage? Cheapish finance, but you'd need to make overpayments (put all the FiT, export and savings monies in at least), otherwise you'll be paying interest for 25 years, which would probably blow the economics.

    If you're south facing, with no shading, and can go to 4kWp (smaller systems cost more proportionately) then you might have room for some finance costs if at a low rate.

    Do you mind posting a rough location (nearest town/city), we'll then be able to give a decent guesstimate of income.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 9th Jun 15, 5:39 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MrHockallz
    In all honesty I think I might be leaning toward the 0% credit card option if I can get a decent deal and payment period.

    Depending on the total cost I reckon I have enough to cover maybe 2/3rds of the cost so I wouldn't need a great deal of finance in any respect but it would blow my budget for any other home improvements.

    I live in Gosforth in Tyne and Wear, Postcode is NE3 if that helps.
    • MrHockallz
    • By MrHockallz 9th Jun 15, 7:57 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    MrHockallz
    I'm very pleased (and somewhat relieved) to confirm I have received email confirmation the order and subsequent finance has been cancelled by Project Solar.

    I also have a guy from TP Solar calling tomorrow to discuss my requirements. Has anyone had any experience with them?

    With the fantastic information I've gathered from you so far I have a much clearer idea of what to ask for and if I go ahead with a quote and survey will update accordingly.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 8:05 PM
    • 9,435 Posts
    • 14,323 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    In all honesty I think I might be leaning toward the 0% credit card option if I can get a decent deal and payment period.

    Depending on the total cost I reckon I have enough to cover maybe 2/3rds of the cost so I wouldn't need a great deal of finance in any respect but it would blow my budget for any other home improvements.

    I live in Gosforth in Tyne and Wear, Postcode is NE3 if that helps.
    Originally posted by MrHockallz
    I can't seem to get the PVGIS website, that's odd!

    Ok, let's take an educated guess, perhaps slightly on the pessimistic side, of 900kWh/kWp as you are quite northerly.

    So FiT income, 3,600 * 12.92p = 465
    Export (deemed 50%) 1,800 * 4.85p = 81
    Leccy savings (approx 80 to 160) = 120

    Total - a devilish 666pa

    A good return on 6k, but a great return on 5k. The cheaper the price then the less you'll need to borrow, and also the greater the percentage ROI (return on investment) which gives you slightly more wiggle room on financing.

    I'll update the figures once PVGIS is back.

    Mart.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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