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  • FIRST POST
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 18th Mar 15, 11:08 AM
    • 12,151Posts
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    Voyager2002
    Chip and signature card refused by retailer
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 15, 11:08 AM
    Chip and signature card refused by retailer 18th Mar 15 at 11:08 AM
    I have used chip and signature cards for many years...

    A couple of times in the last few months, retailers have refused to take payment in this way while accepting chip and PIN cards. I do know that retailers are not allowed to do this (under legislation forbidding discrimination against people with a disability): is there any body that enforces this?
Page 2
    • molerat
    • By molerat 19th Mar 15, 1:26 PM
    • 18,813 Posts
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    molerat
    Have you considered using cash?
    Originally posted by haras_nosirrah
    Why should they ? C&S is a legitimate payment method. From my retail days the terminal prints out a signature slip, maybe if they have an integrated POS system it does not allow for that. I would write a complaint to PO Counters and see what they come back with, we all know of their poor staff training levels so this may be just another instance of that.
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    • nomoneytoday
    • By nomoneytoday 19th Mar 15, 2:43 PM
    • 4,752 Posts
    • 2,877 Thanks
    nomoneytoday
    I'd shop elsewhere instead, after all if they don't want your payment..
    • Paul Metcalfe
    • By Paul Metcalfe 6th Feb 17, 12:32 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Paul Metcalfe
    Sorry to re-open but two years later and people are still meeting companies that should know better and newer ones that ignore and having found this page covers exactly the same things....
    Unfortunatley even if there are agencies that are tasked with maintaining equality or reducing discrimination they do not care.
    Retailers found so far that openly / knowingly discriminate over chip and signature include Asda (fuel stations revamped to remove ability to use,) Post Office, Richer Sounds and an increasing number of smaller outlets that use the new cheap pin machines that do not print or have any ability to sign.
    Maybes we should just compile an open list ....

    I suppose I had better add that it is not wanting 'better' or 'special' treatment but equal to which the right to is already in place.
    Last edited by Paul Metcalfe; 06-02-2017 at 12:58 PM.
    • WillPS
    • By WillPS 6th Feb 17, 6:35 PM
    • 306 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    WillPS
    Email the company CEOs.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 6th Feb 17, 6:47 PM
    • 31,941 Posts
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    DCFC79
    Email the company CEOs.
    Originally posted by WillPS
    Not sure if that will achieve anything.
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 6th Feb 17, 9:17 PM
    • 4,553 Posts
    • 1,426 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    Sorry to re-open but two years later and people are still meeting companies that should know better and newer ones that ignore and having found this page covers exactly the same things....
    Unfortunatley even if there are agencies that are tasked with maintaining equality or reducing discrimination they do not care.
    Retailers found so far that openly / knowingly discriminate over chip and signature include Asda (fuel stations revamped to remove ability to use,) Post Office, Richer Sounds and an increasing number of smaller outlets that use the new cheap pin machines that do not print or have any ability to sign.
    Maybes we should just compile an open list ....

    I suppose I had better add that it is not wanting 'better' or 'special' treatment but equal to which the right to is already in place.
    Originally posted by Paul Metcalfe
    There is no right to use chip and signature cards.

    Reasonable adjustments must be made for disabled people but this could include things such as an online or telephone order.

    If the business is too small or adjustments wouldn't be practical (e.g. unattended pay at pump) then none need to be done.
    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 6th Feb 17, 10:01 PM
    • 1,518 Posts
    • 862 Thanks
    boo_star
    Sorry to re-open but two years later and people are still meeting companies that should know better and newer ones that ignore and having found this page covers exactly the same things....
    Unfortunatley even if there are agencies that are tasked with maintaining equality or reducing discrimination they do not care.
    Retailers found so far that openly / knowingly discriminate over chip and signature include Asda (fuel stations revamped to remove ability to use,) Post Office, Richer Sounds and an increasing number of smaller outlets that use the new cheap pin machines that do not print or have any ability to sign.
    Maybes we should just compile an open list ....

    I suppose I had better add that it is not wanting 'better' or 'special' treatment but equal to which the right to is already in place.
    Originally posted by Paul Metcalfe
    There is no "right" to use a specific payment method and C&S is far from exclusively used by those with disabilities.
  • Richer Sounds Company Representative
    Sorry to re-open but two years later and people are still meeting companies that should know better and newer ones that ignore and having found this page covers exactly the same things....
    Unfortunatley even if there are agencies that are tasked with maintaining equality or reducing discrimination they do not care.
    Retailers found so far that openly / knowingly discriminate over chip and signature include Asda (fuel stations revamped to remove ability to use,) Post Office, Richer Sounds and an increasing number of smaller outlets that use the new cheap pin machines that do not print or have any ability to sign.
    Maybes we should just compile an open list ....

    I suppose I had better add that it is not wanting 'better' or 'special' treatment but equal to which the right to is already in place.
    Originally posted by Paul Metcalfe
    Hi there,

    I saw your comments on this thread and wanted to take the opportunity to reply.

    We definitely do accept chip and signature cards in all our 52 nationwide branches and would certainly never discriminate against any of our valued customers.

    On certain occasions we reserve the right to complete extra security checks where applicable but this is merely to protect both ourselves and the cardholder from any risk of fraudulent transaction.

    I hope this clarifies our position, should any other forum user have further questions feel free to contact me via my direct e-mail address which is..

    John.p.clayton@richersounds.com

    Many Thanks

    John Clayton
    Operations Director
    Richer Sounds
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Richer Sounds. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • WillPS
    • By WillPS 7th Feb 17, 10:49 AM
    • 306 Posts
    • 143 Thanks
    WillPS
    Not sure if that will achieve anything.
    Originally posted by DCFC79
    I beg to differ. As evidenced by the post before mine, this is a misunderstanding at store level rather than a company policy. What's needed is a bit of corrective action at the top level.
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 7th Feb 17, 2:29 PM
    • 4,553 Posts
    • 1,426 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    I beg to differ. As evidenced by the post before mine, this is a misunderstanding at store level rather than a company policy. What's needed is a bit of corrective action at the top level.
    Originally posted by WillPS
    Will it help the tinfoil hat brigade though?
    • rtho782
    • By rtho782 7th Feb 17, 8:02 PM
    • 1,105 Posts
    • 803 Thanks
    rtho782
    I want to pay for my fuel in cash and the unmanned pumps won't let me as they only take card.

    Is that discrimination?

    I want to pay by card at the market because I have anxiety about carrying cash but the stall holders won't let me.

    Is that discrimination?

    Stop whining. Nobody has to take your chip and signature card because you "have anxiety" about the security of pins (which are more secure than a random scribble).
    Deposit Saved since 01/12/15: 13,000 / 15,000 House Bought!

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    • Mrs_Ryan
    • By Mrs_Ryan 8th Feb 17, 9:19 PM
    • 10,602 Posts
    • 20,098 Thanks
    Mrs_Ryan
    I have a C&S card as I have dyscalculia so I cannot use a PIN.
    I once got told in Sports Direct that all C&S cards are fraudulent and if I can't use a PIN I must be stupid. (The so called 'supervisor' had never heard of dyscalculia and said 'there's no such thing') However there's a shocking amount of places who don't cater for disabled people full stop so I'm no longer surprised when somewhere won't take my card. They don't take C&S or contactless- I walk out. I don't have any other means of payment (I can't use cash as I can't count it)
    That's if I can actually access the shop in the first place because the lifts aren't working or the aisles are too cluttered.
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    • boo_star
    • By boo_star 8th Feb 17, 9:34 PM
    • 1,518 Posts
    • 862 Thanks
    boo_star
    I have a C&S card as I have dyscalculia so I cannot use a PIN.
    I once got told in Sports Direct that all C&S cards are fraudulent and if I can't use a PIN I must be stupid. (The so called 'supervisor' had never heard of dyscalculia and said 'there's no such thing') However there's a shocking amount of places who don't cater for disabled people full stop so I'm no longer surprised when somewhere won't take my card. They don't take C&S or contactless- I walk out. I don't have any other means of payment (I can't use cash as I can't count it)
    That's if I can actually access the shop in the first place because the lifts aren't working or the aisles are too cluttered.
    Originally posted by Mrs_Ryan
    I'm not sure why they'd refuse to accept your card, the till will just print out a slip for you to sign if it's C&S (and it should do the same if the chip is broken.). Maybe he thought you were using magical powers to make the till print out the slip.

    There shouldn't be any risk for the retailer by doing this, using stripe and sign is when they're taking a risk.

    I suppose it must be poor training, I'm not exactly surprised it was Sportsdirect.
    • OllyM
    • By OllyM 9th Feb 17, 12:37 AM
    • 370 Posts
    • 212 Thanks
    OllyM
    Retailers found so far that openly / knowingly discriminate over chip and signature include Asda (fuel stations revamped to remove ability to use,) Post Office, Richer Sounds and an increasing number of smaller outlets that use the new cheap pin machines that do not print or have any ability to sign.
    Maybes we should just compile an open list ....
    Originally posted by Paul Metcalfe
    Is the Asda petrol station thing a recent change?

    When I was back in the UK over Christmas I got fuel using my US card (which is chip and signature) at an Asda Pay at Pump, but it limited the fill to 40GBP which meant I had to use two cards to fill the tank

    Tesco Pay at Pump wouldn't accept it.
    • cheesetoast
    • By cheesetoast 9th Feb 17, 9:36 PM
    • 256 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    cheesetoast
    I have a C&S card as I have dyscalculia so I cannot use a PIN.
    Originally posted by Mrs_Ryan
    Serious question - could you not use a PIN by way of either a pattern on the keypad (top left, middle, middle, top right - which would be 1553), or as patterns for the numbers (circle, double-circle, double-circle, stick - which would be 0881)?
    • Arleen
    • By Arleen 9th Feb 17, 9:59 PM
    • 1,150 Posts
    • 863 Thanks
    Arleen
    I'm not sure why they'd refuse to accept your card, the till will just print out a slip for you to sign if it's C&S (and it should do the same if the chip is broken.). Maybe he thought you were using magical powers to make the till print out the slip.

    There shouldn't be any risk for the retailer by doing this, using stripe and sign is when they're taking a risk.

    I suppose it must be poor training, I'm not exactly surprised it was Sportsdirect.
    Originally posted by boo_star
    I'm not sure how they would even know it's c&s until the terminal would start printing a slip to sign (it's set on the card). I can understand the scepticism of store staff when someone approaches and, rather than just shopping and paying, starts asking will they take a signature instead of pin code, especially in the ongoing fearmongering campaign about credit card frauds.
    A good countermeasure would be to volunteer your ID if you must ask that question because credit cards were moving very fast away from C&S primarily because of the amount of fraud it attracted which was also expensive to investigate.
    • Mrs_Ryan
    • By Mrs_Ryan 10th Feb 17, 2:07 AM
    • 10,602 Posts
    • 20,098 Thanks
    Mrs_Ryan
    Serious question - could you not use a PIN by way of either a pattern on the keypad (top left, middle, middle, top right - which would be 1553), or as patterns for the numbers (circle, double-circle, double-circle, stick - which would be 0881)?
    Originally posted by cheesetoast
    I've had this asked before and the answer is no unfortunately- the numbers just look jumbled to me so I would end up getting them the wrong way around. Coupled with my poor memory due to my fibromyalgia and mental health problems remembering any kind of number to me is a no-go.
    Very proud to be Open University BA (Hons) English Lang and Lit Graduate! MA English 75% complete Going back for round 2! BSc (Hons) Combined STEM 2018- Bring it on!
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    • ELl
    • By ELl 13th Mar 18, 9:24 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ELl
    check these links
    try contacting the customer services department with this info:..

    Obviously retailers can choose which methods of payment to accept however please see the article on the payyourway.org.uk website search for the "chip-and-signature-plain-text-guide" the paragraph of interest makes reference to the 2010 Equality Act..

    alternatively type the following replacing the "?" with "." and the "/ " with "/"
    www?payyourway?org?uk/ consumer-advice/ chip-and-signature/ chip-and-signature-plain-text-guide
    • Gary_Dexter
    • By Gary_Dexter 13th Mar 18, 9:42 AM
    • 1,332 Posts
    • 774 Thanks
    Gary_Dexter
    try contacting the customer services department with this info:..

    Obviously retailers can choose which methods of payment to accept however please see the article on the payyourway.org.uk website search for the "chip-and-signature-plain-text-guide" the paragraph of interest makes reference to the 2010 Equality Act..

    alternatively type the following replacing the "?" with "." and the "/ " with "/"
    www?payyourway?org?uk/ consumer-advice/ chip-and-signature/ chip-and-signature-plain-text-guide
    Originally posted by ELl
    This topic is over a year old.

    I'm pretty sure it's dead and buried now
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 13th Mar 18, 9:48 AM
    • 1,110 Posts
    • 1,222 Thanks
    bertiewhite
    I'm not sure if this is relevant but I regularly use a chip & signature fuel card.

    Quite often the vendor asks for a PIN and sometimes they try swiping it rather than insert it like a PIN card. It seems that many assistants just aren't used to dealing with them.

    On the other hand, some establishments simply state that they will not take them.
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