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  • FIRST POST
    sasquartch
    NHS Penalty Charge Notice received
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 15, 6:54 PM
    NHS Penalty Charge Notice received 14th Mar 15 at 6:54 PM
    I was recently unemployed and in receipt of Job Seekers Allowance. During this time I had an NHS dental checkup which normally cost 18.50. I told the dental practice I was in receipt of JSA and was told that I did not need to pay.


    Now, several months later, I have received a letter stating that my claim was invalid as my JSA was contribution based rather than income based whatever that means.
    The result is that I am being asked for the 18.50 which is fair enough but also an additional 92.50 penalty !
    Although I signed the form like I always do for NHS treatment I simply took the dental receptionists advice who at no time said anything about there being two types of JSA or the possibility of any penalties being levied if information was incorrect.
    Obviously I will appeal as I feel I have been incorrectly advised and certainly never had any intention of claiming anything that I wasn't entitled to
    Can anyone offer any guidance on how best to proceed - ideally I want the penalty cancelled but pay the cost of the treatment.
    Thanks.
Page 5
    • Mrs_Ryan
    • By Mrs_Ryan 21st Feb 18, 11:32 PM
    • 10,696 Posts
    • 20,307 Thanks
    Mrs_Ryan
    Im helping my mate to deal with these bunch and they said two things that frankly astonished me.
    My mate claims Carers Allowance for her severely disabled mum which is her only income. She uses it to pay for taxis to her mums house each day to provide care and companionship as there is no bus service. She explained that if she were to pay the fine she could not provide care for her mum which would mean a) she was breaching the conditions of her Carers Allowance and b) her mum wouldnt receive any care. She was told essentially to commit benefit fraud as the fine was more important! this is 100% true, I was sat next to her with the phone on loudspeaker) she has type 2 diet controlled diabetes and she was also told to tell her doctor to lie on the form so she could get an exemption card!
    She gave me permission to speak and I soundly told them off saying that they were essentially telling her to commit fraud on two counts and that I would take this further as it wasnt acceptable. I also asked them to confirm that they thought it was appropriate that a vulnerable elderly person should be left all day without food in a wet pad in a wet bed because their charge was more important. Funnily enough they said no that isnt acceptable...
    Last edited by Mrs_Ryan; 21-02-2018 at 11:37 PM.
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    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 22nd Feb 18, 9:49 AM
    • 9,371 Posts
    • 7,041 Thanks
    pmduk
    And the charge is disproportionate.
    Originally posted by MiserlyMartin
    The penalty charge is five times the prescription charge or a maximum of 100. Hardly disproportionate in my mind, particularly if it reminds people to pay when they should.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 22nd Feb 18, 9:53 AM
    • 9,371 Posts
    • 7,041 Thanks
    pmduk
    Are you for real? Have you tried confronting NHS BECS regards fraudulant penalty charges? If not then I suggest your opinions should be less pointed. Firstly, once you provide evidence that the medical establishment was at fault they then require further evidences. Secondly once you provide further evidences they tell you your evidences are insufficient, thirdly, once you request they send your case to appeal, they refuse point blank and delay: However, this delay in sending to appeal gives them every opportunity to send reminders for payment daily. Once you contact your MP they might : and I mean might decide it best to follow process but with that comes daily reminders to pay the charge. The only thing that stops them in thier tracks is the threat of legal action due to breach of article 6 of the European Commission on Human rights indicating that they had breached the mental health act of 2005

    YES they are absolute criminals.
    Originally posted by kugbsteve
    Wouldn't it be easier to pay the prescription charge rather than steal from the NHS
    • Birdynumnum
    • By Birdynumnum 19th Apr 18, 6:14 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Birdynumnum
    Boy are there some unforgiving souls on here, this reply intended for the poster and not the thous shalt nots that followed. I also recently received a penalty fine for apparently not holding a valid pre payment certificate, the fine was 134 100 of which is the penalty and 34 for the script, this being over 3 months since the purchase of my card and naturally as the card covered a 3 month period I disposed of it upon expiration so cannot prove I had it, I paid in cash so no record on my bank statement..

    Having spoken to my pharmacist he can't prove I had a valid card even though I always buy my certificates from him, I contested the fine explaining that I always buy 3 month pre pays please check your records, they maintain that I claimed the prescription without a valid card.I asked for a copy of the script to be scanned and emailed, they said it would be posted out to me taking up to 10 days, during this time the fine increased by a further 150 to 184, I'm still waiting for their copy of the script to arrive.

    The script in question is for 4 items, mine is always for 8 being a transplant patient requiring a lot of anti rejection meds, I suspect the script in question is not for my meds but can't prove until their copy arrives if it ever does.To buck the trend and offer sympathy, it is clear in both cases that a genuine mistake was made by the claimants, the 100 fine later increasing to 150 is punitive considering no previous transgression, this smacks of a cash generator rather than a deterrent and is unfair to both parties. In future I will pay for all my cards using a credit card, I will take a picture of their copy of the script and keep all future cards following expiration, the nay sayers will say I should be doing this anyway but should we really have to cover our backs for any possible eventuality, sorry mate you got stiffed as did I.
    • calleyw
    • By calleyw 19th Apr 18, 7:34 PM
    • 8,908 Posts
    • 16,201 Thanks
    calleyw
    Boy are there some unforgiving souls on here, this reply intended for the poster and not the thous shalt nots that followed. I also recently received a penalty fine for apparently not holding a valid pre payment certificate, the fine was 134 100 of which is the penalty and 34 for the script, this being over 3 months since the purchase of my card and naturally as the card covered a 3 month period I disposed of it upon expiration so cannot prove I had it, I paid in cash so no record on my bank statement..

    Having spoken to my pharmacist he can't prove I had a valid card even though I always buy my certificates from him, I contested the fine explaining that I always buy 3 month pre pays please check your records, they maintain that I claimed the prescription without a valid card.I asked for a copy of the script to be scanned and emailed, they said it would be posted out to me taking up to 10 days, during this time the fine increased by a further 150 to 184, I'm still waiting for their copy of the script to arrive.

    The script in question is for 4 items, mine is always for 8 being a transplant patient requiring a lot of anti rejection meds, I suspect the script in question is not for my meds but can't prove until their copy arrives if it ever does.To buck the trend and offer sympathy, it is clear in both cases that a genuine mistake was made by the claimants, the 100 fine later increasing to 150 is punitive considering no previous transgression, this smacks of a cash generator rather than a deterrent and is unfair to both parties. In future I will pay for all my cards using a credit card, I will take a picture of their copy of the script and keep all future cards following expiration, the nay sayers will say I should be doing this anyway but should we really have to cover our backs for any possible eventuality, sorry mate you got stiffed as did I.
    Originally posted by Birdynumnum
    I am carer for someone who is epileptic after a stroke. So he gets a 5 year exemption. Card had about a year to run and they sent him a letter saying he was going to have to have pay a fine.

    So they don't cross check anyway. Its just random checks and then send a letter without double checking. trying to catch you out.

    You were miffed but imagine how distraught someone with a brain injury was getting that letter. When they knew they where exempt.

    Got it sorted with no fine to pay. I believe that the pharmacy just ticks the box to say they have not see the card. If you don't produce it.

    The easiest option is to charge everyone excluding children a 1 for each item on the script. 80% of the population don't pay anyway. Less admin all round.

    Yours

    Calley X
    Hope for everything and expect nothing!!!

    Good enough is almost always good enough -Prof Barry Schwartz

    If it scares you, it might be a good thing to try -Seth Godin
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 19th Apr 18, 7:44 PM
    • 6,724 Posts
    • 12,193 Thanks
    GlasweJen
    Boy are there some unforgiving souls on here, this reply intended for the poster and not the thous shalt nots that followed. I also recently received a penalty fine for apparently not holding a valid pre payment certificate, the fine was 134 100 of which is the penalty and 34 for the script, this being over 3 months since the purchase of my card and naturally as the card covered a 3 month period I disposed of it upon expiration so cannot prove I had it, I paid in cash so no record on my bank statement..

    Having spoken to my pharmacist he can't prove I had a valid card even though I always buy my certificates from him, I contested the fine explaining that I always buy 3 month pre pays please check your records, they maintain that I claimed the prescription without a valid card.I asked for a copy of the script to be scanned and emailed, they said it would be posted out to me taking up to 10 days, during this time the fine increased by a further 150 to 184, I'm still waiting for their copy of the script to arrive.

    The script in question is for 4 items, mine is always for 8 being a transplant patient requiring a lot of anti rejection meds, I suspect the script in question is not for my meds but can't prove until their copy arrives if it ever does.To buck the trend and offer sympathy, it is clear in both cases that a genuine mistake was made by the claimants, the 100 fine later increasing to 150 is punitive considering no previous transgression, this smacks of a cash generator rather than a deterrent and is unfair to both parties. In future I will pay for all my cards using a credit card, I will take a picture of their copy of the script and keep all future cards following expiration, the nay sayers will say I should be doing this anyway but should we really have to cover our backs for any possible eventuality, sorry mate you got stiffed as did I.
    Originally posted by Birdynumnum
    Now this should be provable. When I worked in a Scottish pharmacy we issued the 3 monthly prepayment scripts from a book that had carbon paper. When the book was all used up it was returned to the
    NHSBSA.

    Each PPC had a serial number on it and we filled in the patients name, DOB and address as it appeared on their prescription.

    If the system is the same in England someone somewhere has a counter slip for your prepayment certificate. Can your pharmacist give you the address that he sends his prepayment paperwork back to so you can enquire with them?
    Bounts, Quidco, Shop and Scan, Receipt Hog, Costco Cashback, Debit card cashback

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    • Peanuts1904
    • By Peanuts1904 21st Apr 18, 8:16 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Peanuts1904
    Unfair penalty charge..?
    Hi. I'm reading your posts and after some advice. My mum had her medical exemption certificate renewed and took the new one in to her dentist at her appointment. Received treatment, paid charges, everything is fine and then receives a penalty charge of 100 plus 68 for unpaid fees. Apparently the dentist didn't check the certificate or amend her details re the new certificate and so charged her according to her old certificate. She has been told over the phone that it is entirely her responsibility to ensure the dentist is aware of her certificate and how much she should pay etc... And that the fine will very likely stand. Is this not ridiculous? If she has the right form, hands the right form over, declared everything corre signs the right documents and pays her charges should she be penalised, for what is the dentists administration fault?? She's in a right state, happy to pay the difference of treatment fees but gutted about the fine and feels like a first class criminal. I'm fuming on her behalf. Am I overreacting or does this sound slightly wrong to anyone? Thanks very much to you all.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 21st Apr 18, 8:47 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,438 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    Hi. I'm reading your posts and after some advice. My mum had her medical exemption certificate renewed and took the new one in to her dentist at her appointment. Received treatment, paid charges, everything is fine and then receives a penalty charge of 100 plus 68 for unpaid fees. Apparently the dentist didn't check the certificate or amend her details re the new certificate and so charged her according to her old certificate. She has been told over the phone that it is entirely her responsibility to ensure the dentist is aware of her certificate and how much she should pay etc... And that the fine will very likely stand. Is this not ridiculous? If she has the right form, hands the right form over, declared everything corre signs the right documents and pays her charges should she be penalised, for what is the dentists administration fault?? She's in a right state, happy to pay the difference of treatment fees but gutted about the fine and feels like a first class criminal. I'm fuming on her behalf. Am I overreacting or does this sound slightly wrong to anyone? Thanks very much to you all.
    Originally posted by Peanuts1904
    Responsibility for paying the correct fee remains with the patient.

    A medical exemption certificate usually only applies to prescriptions. Do you mean a tax credits or low income certificate?
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 21st Apr 18, 10:05 PM
    • 5,455 Posts
    • 4,101 Thanks
    sheramber
    It sounds like your mother has a partial exemption certificate due to low income.

    When she renewed it she was not entitled to as much exemption as before.

    is that the case?

    Does the certificate say how much the exemption she has is worth?

    Did the dentist surgery advise her how much the total charge was so she could check the amount was correct?
    • wildfirejc
    • By wildfirejc 4th Jul 18, 12:24 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    wildfirejc
    NHS Business Services Penalty Charge waiver refused
    Totally agree with you on every word.

    Unlike some on here you do not possess a Degree in Benefits, it is a minefield and, when new to it, very confusing.

    I too was caught out with the dentist charge, we have used the same dentist and receptionist since 1985, she virtually told me to sign the back too, like you say when someone is telling you that you do not have to pay why would you argue the point!

    I received a penalty notice for the the cost of treatment and a 100 fine, I contacted my dentist first who was mortified I had received this and was advised to call whoever had issued the fine (cant remember now) and see if it could be waived, my dentist said that if it was not waived then they would pay the fine, it was waived.

    Total misunderstanding caused by the receptionist not knowing the difference between IB and CB benefits as well as me not knowing either. I do not believe that most people stand and read an entire form of regulations either, also when I attended the dentist I did not even know which benefit I was in receipt of.

    Like I said, maybe a Degree in Benefits would help lol !
    Originally posted by bspm

    BSPM, do you mind telling me who you spoke to, to get that waiver? I seem to be hitting a brick wall and my circumstances were very similar to yours.
    • hb2
    • By hb2 4th Jul 18, 11:14 PM
    • 114 Posts
    • 129 Thanks
    hb2
    BSPM, do you mind telling me who you spoke to, to get that waiver? I seem to be hitting a brick wall and my circumstances were very similar to yours.
    Originally posted by wildfirejc
    BSPM made that post 18 months ago. I haven't looked to see if they are still active on the forum, it is possible that they have moved on.
    • bspm1
    • By bspm1 5th Jul 18, 12:11 AM
    • 146 Posts
    • 284 Thanks
    bspm1
    BSPM, do you mind telling me who you spoke to, to get that waiver? I seem to be hitting a brick wall and my circumstances were very similar to yours.
    Originally posted by wildfirejc
    Coooeee I am still here with an added 1 on my name lol.

    As I stated it was so long ago and I have no idea who i called but, if I were to guess I would have probably called a number that was on the fine or letter?
    • wildfirejc
    • By wildfirejc 18th Jul 18, 4:15 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    wildfirejc
    Thanks bspm1. I am now reaching Complaints Stage 1 as I think my case is exactly like yours. Fingers crossed, they will waive mine too.
    • ashpan
    • By ashpan 28th Sep 18, 6:29 PM
    • 121 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    ashpan
    i have just received a dental penalty notice for 100 which i cant afford, it was a genuine mistake caused by 3 things - i asked the receptionist if i had to pay she said 'no charge, just sign', i didnt have my glasses with me and i mistakenly thought i was exempt from dental charges as i was 60 just before my treatment - can i appeal and has anyone every been successful in an appeal like this?
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 28th Sep 18, 6:38 PM
    • 3,793 Posts
    • 3,610 Thanks
    poppy12345
    i have just received a dental penalty notice for 100 which i cant afford, it was a genuine mistake caused by 3 things - i asked the receptionist if i had to pay she said 'no charge, just sign', i didnt have my glasses with me and i mistakenly thought i was exempt from dental charges as i was 60 just before my treatment - can i appeal and has anyone every been successful in an appeal like this?
    Originally posted by ashpan
    It's your responsibility to know if you're exempt from paying or not. You can certainly try and contact them and tell them what happened but based on what you've said you may not succeed.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 28th Sep 18, 7:48 PM
    • 9,371 Posts
    • 7,041 Thanks
    pmduk
    i have just received a dental penalty notice for 100 which i cant afford, it was a genuine mistake caused by 3 things - i asked the receptionist if i had to pay she said 'no charge, just sign', i didnt have my glasses with me and i mistakenly thought i was exempt from dental charges as i was 60 just before my treatment - can i appeal and has anyone every been successful in an appeal like this?
    Originally posted by ashpan
    Unfortunately, leaving your reading glasses at home is unlikely to cut any ice with them, and dental receptionists are not trained in benefits. You can try appealing, but I'd also complain to the practice manager at the dental surgery to prevent anybody else suffering this way.
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