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  • FIRST POST
    • Emby
    • By Emby 14th Mar 15, 10:23 AM
    • 103Posts
    • 52Thanks
    Emby
    5 Year Battle Won against Mortgage Lender
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 15, 10:23 AM
    5 Year Battle Won against Mortgage Lender 14th Mar 15 at 10:23 AM
    Hi All,

    I declared bankruptcy in 2009 and a year later started my "Credit File Clean Up". All of my creditors updated my credit files properly, some after a bit of a fight but one.

    My Mortgage lender (HSBC) refused to apply a default to my credit file and it has take over 5 years fighting them on this and finally the FOS came down on my side a few weeks ago and the mortgage lender had to remove the incorrect information from my credit file.

    They had recorded the account as only "Settled" over a year after my bankruptcy which would have meant the incorrect information would have been damaging my credit rating for well over a year after it should have disappeared completely.

    Incredibly, the ICO completely failed to enforce their own guidelines (Completely and deliberately ignored them infact) so it put me on shaky ground when I took it to the FOS as they asked what the ICO decision had been.

    After breaking down the ICO guidelines and how they apply to my case on numerous ocassions the FOS finally agreed I had a point. My mortgage lender was incredibly underhanded, dishonest and manipulating during the whole process.

    Finally its all done and I have a clean credit file again with no sign of bad debts or bankruptcies.

    A big thank you to Fermi who gave me the foundational information for me to battle on through.


    Last edited by Emby; 14-03-2015 at 10:26 AM.
Page 1
    • fermi
    • By fermi 14th Mar 15, 10:30 AM
    • 39,669 Posts
    • 47,650 Thanks
    fermi
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 15, 10:30 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 15, 10:30 AM
    Excellent result.

    And 'booooo' to the ICO for being such complete idiots.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

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    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
    • Emby
    • By Emby 14th Mar 15, 10:32 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    Emby
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 15, 10:32 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 15, 10:32 AM
    Yes,

    Im considering writing a letter the the gent at the ICO pointing out the FOS applied his guidelines where he didn't.

    Dare I say it, but he seemed to deliberately and maliciously ignore the second half of the guidelines which applied to my case.

    Ah well, water under the bridge.
    • alastairq
    • By alastairq 14th Mar 15, 11:13 AM
    • 4,987 Posts
    • 4,090 Thanks
    alastairq
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 15, 11:13 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 15, 11:13 AM
    Don't 'consider it'....do it!!

    All public departments really need to be shaken up vigorously if they are patently failing to apply their own rules and guidelines.

    It is a real pity financial penalties are not imposed on these bodies if their own rules are so flagrantly ignored.
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots......but some are determined to change my mind.......
    • battyboimatt
    • By battyboimatt 15th Mar 15, 5:54 PM
    • 600 Posts
    • 241 Thanks
    battyboimatt
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 15, 5:54 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 15, 5:54 PM
    They had recorded the account as only "Settled" over a year after my bankruptcy

    I'm sorry but that sounds right, the date of default should be the date of your bankruptcy. then a year later they should mark your account as "Settled" to show the account is now settled.

    It would not of stayed on your file any longer as it drops off 6 years after the default date, not the settled date.
  • sparkles12
    • #6
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:16 AM
    Ico
    • #6
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:16 AM
    Hi guys

    I am in a similar situation , my bankruptcy was in 2009 and the mortgage company won't default the credit file to the date of the bankruptcy order date.

    I just lost an appeal to the ICO where they state the default date recorded on my credit file should be that of the repossession date which was a year later . even tough they had possession earlier as it was a voluntary surrender

    The ICO guidelines are very clear in 2014 and 2007 that the default date should be that of the bankruptcy order date and not after but they are failing to acknowledge their own guidelines and say as the property was a secured loan it only forms part of the bankruptcy when its unsecured but their guidelines on secured loans state otherwise

    I just got my disappointing decision from ICO yesterday and the guidelines i quoted were not acknowledged at all

    Any advice on how to approach this with FOS would really be appreciated , my credit score is sitting at 959 and in Jan 2016 i was planning to apply for a mortgage which ive got advice on but should the default stay as is im doomed for a mortgage until 2017

    Your advice on how to approach this would be very much appreciated
    • fermi
    • By fermi 21st Mar 15, 7:40 AM
    • 39,669 Posts
    • 47,650 Thanks
    fermi
    • #7
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:40 AM
    • #7
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:40 AM
    https://twitter.com/fermi239/status/579199088702402560
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

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    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
  • sparkles12
    • #8
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:43 AM
    Ico
    • #8
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:43 AM
    I am really happy for you that you got this result as id given up all hope , great work in fighting this i hope i get the same result
    • fermi
    • By fermi 21st Mar 15, 7:46 AM
    • 39,669 Posts
    • 47,650 Thanks
    fermi
    • #9
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:46 AM
    • #9
    • 21st Mar 15, 7:46 AM
    It is quite disgusting that the ICO ignore their own guidelines.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

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    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
    • xHannahx
    • By xHannahx 21st Mar 15, 7:55 AM
    • 597 Posts
    • 450 Thanks
    xHannahx
    Had the property the mortgage related to been repossessed?
    A mortgage is normally only reported as default when repossessed. If it hadn't been repo'd the mortgage doesn't normally get entered into the bankruptcy and the mortgage company will rely on their security.
    From your post I'm assuming it was repo'd in which case the date of default should be the date of repossession.
    • fermi
    • By fermi 21st Mar 15, 8:00 AM
    • 39,669 Posts
    • 47,650 Thanks
    fermi
    The ICO guidelines are very clear in 2014 and 2007 that the default date should be that of the bankruptcy order date and not after but they are failing to acknowledge their own guidelines and say as the property was a secured loan it only forms part of the bankruptcy when its unsecured but their guidelines on secured loans state otherwise
    Originally posted by sparkles12
    Correct. Assuming there was a shortfall that eventually went into the bankruptcy.

    Para 14

    a lender should file a default no later than six months after the date of a successful court application to proceed with possession unless
    • the customer has made reasonable and agreed arrangements to repay,
    • the lender can justify not filing a default on an exceptional basis. For example, the lender is fully informed of the circumstances and knows that payments will start again, or
    • the loan has been included in a bankruptcy in which case the default should be filed in accordance with the guidance in paragraphs 47 – 48.
    Para 47 - 48

    48 Where a customer continues to pay a debt in line with the original contractual obligations, despite the debt being included in a bankruptcy or IVA ( including where the bankrupt agrees with Official Receiver that payments will continue), the lender would not be obliged to record the account as in default. If the customer stops payment at a later stage, the default recorded should show the date of the IVA or bankruptcy and the fact that it was settled only by IVA or bankruptcy as described in paragraph 51.
    Last edited by fermi; 21-03-2015 at 8:06 AM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
  • sparkles12
    Ico
    Sorry , im unsure how to reply to each response lol so i will do my best to respond

    Hannah I guess the point is that ICO guidelines in 2007 and in 2014 on secured loans ( my property/ mortgage) are that the default date should be that of the bankruptcy order date , which is the reason for my dispute with ICO

    Fermi , what you have pasted here is 100% and is what i have read in the ICO guidelines , which was the reason for my dispute in the first place. I sent this section of the guidelines to ICO showing them their own guidelines along with my dispute and in their reply they failed to acknowledge this section even though it's titled " secured loans" Long term loans and covers mortgages etc ... My dispute was based solely on these guidelines

    I understand the 2014 guidelines have no updated version on this however in a similar section they separate circumstances from 1 to 5 , in the bankruptcy section its states the date the default should be is as soon as the lender becomes aware the loan was included in Bankruptcy ( which was immediately by Insolvency) . Again ICO failed to acknowledge these also

    I was really looking forward to getting back on the property ladder in 2016 as the rental market is so unsettling and has went through the roof . 2017 just seems like a lifetime away

    Hope i can get some advice on how to raise this with the FOS , the mortgage company were unreasonable and wouldn't work with me on anything , i practically begged them to work with me on an affordable payment plan , they agreed after the bankruptcy ? then 1 week later withdrawing the agreement stating the person who agreed the payment plan was not authorised to do so .. Awful hateful company , i didn't want to declare bankruptcy but at that time i had no choice.
    Last edited by sparkles12; 21-03-2015 at 8:45 AM.
    • fermi
    • By fermi 21st Mar 15, 8:45 AM
    • 39,669 Posts
    • 47,650 Thanks
    fermi
    I understand the 2014 guidelines have no updated version on this however in a similar section they separate circumstances from 1 to 5 , in the bankruptcy section its states the date the default should be is as soon as the lender becomes aware the loan was included in Bankruptcy. Again ICO failed to acknowledge these also
    Originally posted by sparkles12
    The 2014 guidelines are an update to the earlier ones, not a complete replacement. They are also not retrospective, so do not override the older ones for historical reporting.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
  • sparkles12
    Ico
    I sent the ICO an original complaint and an appeal on the first decision as not being in accordance to the 2007 guidelines , the response from the second appeal upheld the default as being the date of repossession. They didn't acknowledge the guidelines only that the mortgage company was likely to have complied with data protection act 1998

    ICO state ( again) that only unsecured loans will be defaulted in line of the bankruptcy order date therefore as the mortgage was secured on the property it didn't form part of the bankruptcy and only became unsecured when repossessed so the default was the repo date? but again failed to acknowledge section 14 titled " secured and long term loans" including mortgages ... as you have quoted and seem to have the same understanding as i did .

    Can you offer advice on how to approach this with FOS .. I had lost all hope but a lovely lady from a debt advice support group referred me to this thread and i think i might have a case with FOS
    • fermi
    • By fermi 21st Mar 15, 9:00 AM
    • 39,669 Posts
    • 47,650 Thanks
    fermi
    Check your PMs.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
  • sparkles12
    shorfall
    Correct. Assuming there was a shortfall that eventually went into the bankruptcy.

    Yes i had negative equity and there was a shortfall that eventually went into bankruptcy

    Thank you
    • xHannahx
    • By xHannahx 21st Mar 15, 9:00 AM
    • 597 Posts
    • 450 Thanks
    xHannahx
    Sorry in my previous post it wasn't clear it had been repossessed. My previous post is not applicable if repo'd.
    Default date should be backdated to date of bankruptcy/IVA with satisfaction date the date of discharge or at least that's how the mortgage company I used to work for did it, I left them in 2013 so am not up to date with the 2014 changes though.
  • sparkles12
    Ico
    Thanks Hannah ... I will keep everyone updated on the outcome and hope to have the same as Emy
    • fermi
    • By fermi 2nd Apr 15, 8:51 AM
    • 39,669 Posts
    • 47,650 Thanks
    fermi
    for link......
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Bankruptcy, Credit Cards and Loans boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com. Board guides are not moderators. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
    • garyclay
    • By garyclay 9th Jun 15, 8:27 AM
    • 187 Posts
    • 125 Thanks
    garyclay
    I'm in exactly this position with Skipton who recorded the default date as the date of reposession. Again I complained to the ICO and they sided with Skipton (surprise surprise). I'd given up hope of resolving this until I found this thread.

    I am going to pursue this with the FOS but I really don't know how to do this and what to write. Any help is REALLY appreciated!!
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