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  • FIRST POST
    • Mackle
    • By Mackle 18th Dec 14, 2:36 PM
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    Mackle
    Double / triple glazing and noise reduction
    • #1
    • 18th Dec 14, 2:36 PM
    Double / triple glazing and noise reduction 18th Dec 14 at 2:36 PM
    My partner is having lots of issues with a road-facing room, where lots of road noise is leaking in through some very old aluminium double glazing. From what I gather, both the glass and the gap inbetween is very small by modern standards, and they are not great at sealing out noise. When on the phone, it sounds like they are by the side of a motorway, such is the volume of noise. We believe that the windows are at least 15-20 years old, no idea who the installer was.

    This particular room has no road facing door, and the ceiling is well sinulated.
    I am guessing that for noise reduction, triple glazed is usually the best route to go down?

    My partner spent some time growing up in Germany and remembers woodern triple glazing there as being incredibly effective.

    So far we've had one quote, which was for uPVC tripe glazing. For three windows (two small 620x1310 and a large window that is 2100x1310) it was 1500, and the details about the glazing was "4mm Float/12/4mm Planitherm Total +" not really sure what that means.
    On purely a sound proofing basis, what should we be looking for in replacement windows? Any other benefits are secondary. And is triple glazing typically the option to pursue for maximum noise reduction?
Page 1
    • Furts
    • By Furts 18th Dec 14, 3:27 PM
    • 4,450 Posts
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    Furts
    • #2
    • 18th Dec 14, 3:27 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Dec 14, 3:27 PM
    Trickle vents let in noise, so from a sound insulation approach do not have them fitted.

    You refer to German timber windows, but these will better than pvc windows at sound insulation. In a nutshell, to deaden sound you need mass. There is more mass in timber than in a hollow plastic window profile.

    Sound travels through the smallest of gaps. So if you replace the windows it is vital that they are installed with meticulous attention to detail.
  • archived user
    • #3
    • 18th Dec 14, 4:21 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Dec 14, 4:21 PM
    for noise (if you have enough space in the reveal) secondary glazing will give better results than double/triple glazing, as it gives you completely independent units where minimal vibration can pass through...
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 18th Dec 14, 5:03 PM
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    lstar337
    • #4
    • 18th Dec 14, 5:03 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Dec 14, 5:03 PM
    If purely for sound proofing, I'd get ear plugs. Much cheaper.

    Sound proofing cannot be your only consideration for windows. As an example from the post above, if you ditch the trickle vents you will improve the noise barrier but you will likely end up with a house full of condensation, damp, and mould.
    • arbrighton
    • By arbrighton 18th Dec 14, 8:03 PM
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    arbrighton
    • #5
    • 18th Dec 14, 8:03 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Dec 14, 8:03 PM
    TI believe trickle vents are no longer required by building regs. We've just gone from old, poor quality double glazed pvc to wood double glazed windows (might seem a little unconventional but it is an early Victorian house and PVC looks so wrong).
    We live by a fairly busy road junction, including a lot of hgvs and the reduction in noise has been pretty dramatic
    • Furts
    • By Furts 18th Dec 14, 8:21 PM
    • 4,450 Posts
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    Furts
    • #6
    • 18th Dec 14, 8:21 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Dec 14, 8:21 PM
    TI believe trickle vents are no longer required by building regs. We've just gone from old, poor quality double glazed pvc to wood double glazed windows (might seem a little unconventional but it is an early Victorian house and PVC looks so wrong).
    We live by a fairly busy road junction, including a lot of hgvs and the reduction in noise has been pretty dramatic
    Originally posted by arbrighton
    I might be a lone voice, but I believe for most people trickle vents are a good theory. Unfortunately, people tend not to open and close them when required to aid ventilation and condensation. So, for most people the trickle vents are redundant.

    Which reminds me - I must go and close the one on the ensuite and the two in the front bedroom - these will have controlled the steam following the shower being used. See they do work! But it does depend on thinking and acting!
    • Newly retired
    • By Newly retired 18th Dec 14, 9:32 PM
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    Newly retired
    • #7
    • 18th Dec 14, 9:32 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Dec 14, 9:32 PM
    Just had new double glazing installed, no trickle vents, and the noise reduction is huge. The old windows were double glazed but very old, and the seals had massive gaps, very draughty. So our house is now quieter and warmer.
    • missprice
    • By missprice 18th Dec 14, 9:53 PM
    • 3,530 Posts
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    missprice
    • #8
    • 18th Dec 14, 9:53 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Dec 14, 9:53 PM
    I have tripled glazing. However I went from single to triple.
    Downstairs has aluminum clad wood frames. No noise gets through them. Even the recent road works were barely a mumble. However really expensive.

    Upstairs has UPVC frames/triple glazed though and most noise is reduced. I have put in another thread somewhere the van on a morning that sounds like a bag of spanners is loose inside his engine is more of a purr than a loud roar. No longer wakes me up at 6 am anyway. But cheaper than wood. By a big margin

    Major heat increase indoors, but as I went from single glazed that's no surprise.

    When I looked at the cost, I discovered for the UPVC a whole 50 per window extra for triple as opposed to double glazed.
    Again the actual prices are somewhere on here but from memory UPVC was 1600 for 5 windows, one huge, one medium, 3 small ( one of the small is fixed)

    The wood framed were 1600 for 3 windows, one huge, 2 medium.

    And to also add, I had night vent installed rather than trickle vents
    63 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 19th Dec 14, 10:06 AM
    • 3,396 Posts
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    lstar337
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 14, 10:06 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 14, 10:06 AM
    TI believe trickle vents are no longer required by building regs.
    Originally posted by arbrighton
    Heat recovery ventilation systems are not required by building regs either, yet they would still improve almost every home in the UK.

    Just because something may or may not be in the regs, doesn't mean it is or isn't useful. Trickle vents are used for ventilation and moisture control. I have them, and if I close them the effect is very apparent by the next morning. Now I wont close them unless I am running a dehumidifier.

    This is in a house that was built January 2014.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 19th Dec 14, 12:33 PM
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    Furts

    Just because something may or may not be in the regs, doesn't mean it is or isn't useful. Trickle vents are used for ventilation and moisture control. I have them, and if I close them the effect is very apparent by the next morning. Now I wont close them unless I am running a dehumidifier.

    This is in a house that was built January 2014.
    Originally posted by lstar337
    Two weeks ago the night time temperatures were lower, The trickle vents were open on my bedroom windows and the condensation outside was dripping off them. So yes, they do work - better it be outside than inside!

    Similar to your home, this bedroom dates from 2012. Ventilation and condensation prevention is an issue with modern building.

    But I am undecided on heat recovery ventilation systems. They may be OK for some people but opening windows, using trickle vents, controlling heating and controlling ventilation should be the default settings for many people.
  • Robwiz
    Answering the OP, triple glazed windows will be slightly quieter than double glazed. However, the gap between panes needs to be wider for noise reduction than for insulation so a better solution might be to install secondary glazing on the inside of the existing double glazing. It will cost less, be quieter and will have a thermal insulation benefit as well.

    My understanding is that Building Regs requires trickle vents to be included if the windows being replaced have them.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 20th Dec 14, 7:17 AM
    • 17,558 Posts
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    I'm wondering where people manage to find firms to do tripleglazing. Am I missing something?..as, any time I looked, I was only able to find firms doing doubleglazing.

    Is it a case of pick whichever doubleglazing firm you choose and telling them to do tripleglazing and they will amend accordingly (ie even if they don't say they do tripleglazing)?
    • missprice
    • By missprice 20th Dec 14, 7:27 AM
    • 3,530 Posts
    • 125,900 Thanks
    missprice
    I'm wondering where people manage to find firms to do tripleglazing. Am I missing something?..as, any time I looked, I was only able to find firms doing doubleglazing.

    Is it a case of pick whichever doubleglazing firm you choose and telling them to do tripleglazing and they will amend accordingly (ie even if they don't say they do tripleglazing)?
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    I actually googled it.
    Found maybe 3 firms originally ( when the wood frames were done) couple years later many more firms were doing triple.
    Seems more common now, however the company I chose for the UPVC did not advertise that triple was available, when they called me I simply asked. As in before you come out to measure, do you even do triple? Cos if not there's no point wasting our time.
    The usual big guns came out to quote even though I had said triple only please.
    They quoted for double and then said OK we will do triple for you.
    I thought they were lying to be honest.
    63 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 😥
    • Furts
    • By Furts 20th Dec 14, 8:45 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,889 Thanks
    Furts
    I'm wondering where people manage to find firms to do tripleglazing. Am I missing something?..as, any time I looked, I was only able to find firms doing doubleglazing.

    Is it a case of pick whichever doubleglazing firm you choose and telling them to do tripleglazing and they will amend accordingly (ie even if they don't say they do tripleglazing)?
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    There is a company near me using, I think, the Swish profile. They use the standard window profile, but of course triple glazing is thicker and is not meant to fit in this profile. Consequently the glazing beads have a bulge out profile and protrude past the window. I believe this looks awful - remember that the beads are internal and this is what one sees every time one looks at the window.
    • ytfcmad
    • By ytfcmad 22nd Dec 14, 1:56 PM
    • 292 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    ytfcmad
    You don't need triple glazing, you need a double glazed unit that incorporates an acoustic laminated product. You will only need this on the front of the house by the sounds of things.

    Very few DG companies will know much about these products but their actual glass supplier will know all about it.

    The exact requirement is based on the decibel level and the frequency of the noise you wish to keep out.

    All the residential new build and refurb work in London has an element of acoustic glass these days, mainly on the first three floors.

    Google Stadip Silence for a clearer understanding.

    Plenty of misinformation on this thread.
    • ic
    • By ic 22nd Dec 14, 3:54 PM
    • 2,693 Posts
    • 1,365 Thanks
    ic
    I've also had triple glazing fitted - as said earlier the extra per window isn't much, my fitter said it was an increase of about 20% per unit - at the end of the day other costs such as disposal of the old units, delivery and labour are the same - hence the increase isn't much on a job. I didn't find the reduction in noise dramatic, but then I was replacing double glazed units that were about 16 years old. The warmth has been noticeable, especially as the sofa is under the window. In fact my house is unbalanced, the front where I had the windows replaced is toasty, whilst the back is now cold - I need to get on and get the rest replaced!
    * my posts are made in good faith and only represent my own opinion, experience or understanding of a situation.
    • leveller2911
    • By leveller2911 22nd Dec 14, 4:17 PM
    • 7,532 Posts
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    leveller2911
    I've also had triple glazing fitted - as said earlier the extra per window isn't much, my fitter said it was an increase of about 20% per unit - at the end of the day other costs such as disposal of the old units, delivery and labour are the same - hence the increase isn't much on a job.
    Originally posted by ic
    There is very little to gain from triple glazing over good double glazed units in the UK. As an example a 4-12-4 softcoat Low E unit filled with Krypton will have a U value of around 1.1 , if you go for triple glazing the U value would be down to around 0.7 at best so the saving really is peanuts. Its a few p a year.

    I would also mention that the U value of the overall window frame/incl units can be different depending on material used (Upvc,Aluminium or timber) .

    Triple glazing does make a difference in Scandanavia where they have far lower temperatures for far longer than we do.

    Re: Noise reduction, it can be improved by having 2 different thicknesses of glass making up the units so 4mm one side and 6mm the other or even having 6.4mm laminted on one side will be an improvment.
    • Mackle
    • By Mackle 14th Jan 15, 11:44 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Mackle
    Thanks for the input people.


    Triple glazing was fitted by a local company. The room went from 75dB of road noise, to averaging 38dB. The old aluminum windows were in really bad shape so it was good to get done.


    What has now become apparent is a circular 127 diameter vent to the outside is now the main source of road noise entering the room, so just need to find something breathable to fill the vent space up with so that there is still ventilation, but less noise coming through. Will also put a cowl on the external portion too.
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