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  • FIRST POST
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 27th Jul 14, 6:16 PM
    • 25Posts
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    meanmrmustard
    Parking Eye - Letter Before County Court Claim
    • #1
    • 27th Jul 14, 6:16 PM
    Parking Eye - Letter Before County Court Claim 27th Jul 14 at 6:16 PM
    Hi,
    I know this has been discussed numerous times on various threads but I wanted to start my own to seek advice on the best course of action.
    I received a parking charge notice from Parking Eye in June 2013. I then received several reminders to pay the fine, which I ignored (rightly or wrongly)
    The other day I received a Letter Before County Court Claim which set the alarm bells ringing. Having read through a lot of good advice on here - in particular Daisy's I have drafted an acknowledgement letter below. I am still within the 14 day limit. Is it also worth sending a letter to Morrison's which is the car park I was in?

    Dear Sirs

    Re: LETTER BEFORECOUNTYCOURTCLAIMDATED xxxx

    I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter.

    First of all I would like to state that at I have not once receivedfrom you any correspondence on the subject of Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA).It makes sense to comply with the Practice Direction’s requirement to referthis matter to the appropriate form of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR)which in this case is POPLA.


    Having thoroughly read through the Practice Direction – Pre Action Conduct Inotice the above letter does notcomply with all points. Please can you send me a FULLY COMPLIANT Letter BeforeCounty Court Claim so that I can begin to deal with my own obligations underthe Practice Direction.

    I refer you to Annex A paragraph 2 of the Practice Direction (attached) andwould kindly request that you follow each individual step when sending me therevised Letter Before Claim.

    At this stage I would like to remind you of the Court's powers to applysanctions for non-compliance with the Practice Direction under Para 4, and Iexpect to receive a fully compliant Letter BeforeClaimwithin 14 days. If you do not send me a fully compliant Letter BeforeClaimas requested, I will seek the assistance of the court.

    Finally I would also ask that you do me the courtesy of reading and replying tothis letter.Please note, if I receive a generic template letter which does notaddress my requests for information, I shall copy the correspondence to the SolicitorsRegulation Authority and ask it to investigate your breach of the Principlesset out in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

    Yours Faithfully
    xxxxx
Page 1
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 27th Jul 14, 6:19 PM
    • 25 Posts
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    meanmrmustard
    • #2
    • 27th Jul 14, 6:19 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Jul 14, 6:19 PM
    Apologies for the different fonts, it was a copying and pasting error
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 29th Jul 14, 9:37 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    meanmrmustard
    • #3
    • 29th Jul 14, 9:37 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Jul 14, 9:37 AM
    Sorry for bumping this thread but I don't want to 'hijack' other people's questions. Can someone explain whether I should have raised a POPLA first of all before posting this letter?
    I am aware there are template letters for POPLA so I should have no problem finding those. however my concern is, as this offence is over a year old now, am I too late for POPLA?
    Thanks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 29th Jul 14, 10:08 AM
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    Redx
    • #4
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:08 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:08 AM
    you are too late for POPLA unless you managed to get PE to issue a popla code that is valid from the day issued, for 28 days

    I cannot see PE giving you this code unless a judge directs them to do so, so in this case you are too late, at the moment, so cannot use popla , yet

    if you manage to get popla as an ADR in the LBCC letter exchange, or if you get the judge to direct ADR by popla, only then will you get a POPLA code to use at POPLA , from PE

    ALL THIS IS EXPLAINED IN THE NEWBIES THREAD BY COUPON-MAD, AS ARE MOST IF NOT ALL TOPICS

    a search of the forum using the search box and search words also yields good info from those already doing it or about to do it, so always check for previous, as you are not the first and wont be the last either
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 29th Jul 14, 10:20 AM
    • 25 Posts
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    meanmrmustard
    • #5
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:20 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:20 AM
    Okay so I will check again through these newbie threads. Thank you.
    So it sounds like this is likely to go to court as you mention the dreaded word 'Judge'.
    I wish I had come on these threads again sooner! The last time I checked (a couple of years ago) the advice people, and Watchdog, were giving was IGNORE these parking notices.
    I now know this was bad advice, but it's my fault for not checking upated cases
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 29th Jul 14, 10:21 AM
    • 15,227 Posts
    • 15,878 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:21 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:21 AM
    You might also like to bring this to the attention of the Local Trading Standards Department, (the Council, not Consumer Direct who are useless). If this is not harassment I do not know what is.
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 29th Jul 14, 10:26 AM
    • 25 Posts
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    meanmrmustard
    • #7
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:26 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:26 AM
    PE are certainly determined. I moved house late last year AND changed my vehicle...not because of this parking fine!
    They eventually found me at my new address and so the pestering continues!
    I'm determined not to give in though. These companies are no different to the scum bag clampers.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 29th Jul 14, 10:26 AM
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    Redx
    • #8
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:26 AM
    • #8
    • 29th Jul 14, 10:26 AM
    pardon me if I got this wrong but you titled this thread as being about the pre-court LBCCC from PE letters. which you rebut using the letters and info from here including lazydaisy`s letters

    although I mentioned the judge, I mentioned it if you fail at the LBCCC and received an MCOL, because CM clearly states trying to get a popla code and popla adjudication as an ADR

    basically you require ADR , and in PE cases that is POPLA

    the newbies thread tells people its never too late to appeal (unless court papers have ensued)

    so you should have appealed to PE and asked for ADR by popla (this is usually the template letter when done in good time of the pcn arriving)

    you are at the LBCCC stage, so again in your letters you would be asking for ADR by POPLA and then doing so if they gave you a popla code

    assuming they issue an MCOL, you would still be asking for ADR by POPLA, but the chances are PE wont agree to this unless the judge directs it, which is why you ask the court to consider ADR by POPLA

    the point being you want ADR by popla, all the time, anytime, as soon as, no question

    how you may get this is explained above

    but you took my words out of context, I never said or inferred it would go to court, I hoped you would sort this out in the LBCCC letter exchange , possibly by PE issuing a popla code

    if they issue an MCOL, that is the court stages, although it starts off with another letter exchange, its not an automatic court appearance

    as you have been a member here for longer than me, I do agree with your statement you should have checked on here much sooner, like I did 12 months ago
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 9th Aug 14, 6:41 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    meanmrmustard
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 14, 6:41 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Aug 14, 6:41 PM
    I sent an appeal email (through their website) to PE round about the time I sent this original Acknowledgement Letter to them.

    Okay I have had a reply to my Acknowledgement Letter back from ParkingEye now. To tell you the truth I am a little bit worried and I would appreciate some assistance.

    I don't have any of their previous correspondence except for the LBCC. I am thinking now that I should have kept hold of it. Am I within my rights to ask them for it again? I don't have to give them a reason why I don't have it do I?

    Anyway the reply letter. I will pick out the main points and try to refrain from just typing out the whole thing:

    They began by saying that they have sent me correspondence to this charge in June this year - exact wording is "PE strongly believes that, on the balance of probability, the attached correspondence was delivered and received in the normal manner."

    They then went on to say - The Letter Before Claim also explained why ParkingEye, due to your inaction, are now unable to refer this matter to POPLA. However we also explained that we would remain open to alternative ADR if legal action was taken.

    Because I had not made an appeal to PE within the timescale (28 days?) they cannot issue a POPLA code. They don't consider POPLA to be a suitable method of ADR at this stage, especially as I have failed to engage with the appeals process prior to this case being processed for further action.

    The next part:

    We believe our Letter Before County Court Claim is fully compliant with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct and all the relevant information pertaining to this case has previously been provided.

    The only information I had received previously were the Parking Charge notices which I no longer have. Is this the 'relevant information' they're talking about?

    You state that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the material time of the Parking Event....

    This part baffles me. I have never stated anything of the sort. I have been careful not to provide any mitigation as advised on these threads.

    The next part goes on to say that:

    The parking charges issued for and on behalf of the landowners are levied on the basis of a contract with the motorist, set out via the signage at the site. The signage sets out the conditions under which a motorist is authorised to park, and that a parking charge will be payable, if the conditions are not met.
    In reference to your belief that no contract was entered into by yourself it is the strong belief held by ParkingEye that a contract was entered into.

    Reasons being:
    • The terms and conditions are on the signage which is visible, clear and appropriately located. I 'cannot now choose that I do not wish to be bound by these.'
    • A reasonable grace period is in operation in each car park so that the motorist may study the smaller text and if they don't wish to be bound by the terms and conditions they are able to leave the site.
    There is another interesting paragraph stating that the loss claimed in their LBCC is in line with the guidelines set out by the BPA. Their charge is not punitive and set on the strong commercial justification for charges of this nature. The charge is proportionate to PE's losses, and calculated using their company records (which are publicly available). The charges have been worked out in conjunction with the landowner and approved and prescribed by BPA. They don't believe that it would be proportionate to supply their calculations relating to Parking Charges at this time. It should be noted that it is commonly held that any pre-estimate of loss need only be rough and ready.

    They finish with information saying that I will need to provide valid evidence indicating that I did not break the terms and conditions stipulated on the signage and they have put the charge on hold for 14 days to allow me to do this.

    Or pay the £85 charge....

    What should I do now? They are still not following the Practice Direction because they have failed to provide an explanation of how the £85 has been calculated as stated in Para 2.1 (5).

    Even though they have told me that I am in possession of the relevant documents (I assume they are talking about the Parking Charges) I believe I should still be able to receive copies of them.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th Aug 14, 8:13 PM
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    Redx
    might be worth reading similar threads like this one http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4961132&page=1
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Aug 14, 8:40 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,935 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yep - another template as expected - so now you go back to the 'LBCCC Fightback' thread and go for another letter back (email is better as it costs you nothing):

    enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

    Other letters are discussed in the LBCCC Fightback thread, as is the fact POPLA is suitable and the 28 days is their own imposed ADR time limit. EU Law coming in next year will dictate ADR has to be available for a year - pretty sure I posted about it in the LBCCC sticky thread fairly recently.

    Also is this a retail park with a Manager or CEO you can send a strong complaint to about this harassment? Loads of landowners cancel PE cases every week on here. You say it's Morrisions so complain to the CEO of Morrisons - the details and email address are clearly set out in the 'Successful Complaints about PPCs' sticky thread along with loads of examples of complaints that worked. Don't take no for an answer and don't leave any letter without a robust email response - this is your month to avoid a court case. Seize the chance.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-08-2014 at 8:44 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 10th Aug 14, 12:50 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    meanmrmustard
    Thanks redx. The thread you sent me is an almost identical situation to mine. The person in question is a couple of stages ahead of me in the process so I intend to follow it closely.
    And thank you Coupon, I will complain to the Manager at Morrison's, I have heard from similar threads that it doesn't necessarily do much good but it can't do me any harm to try. And yes, emailing PE from now on. Why should I waste the price of stamps on them?
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 11th Aug 14, 10:33 AM
    • 25 Posts
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    meanmrmustard
    Okay complaint to Morrison's CEO sent:

    Dear Mr. Dalton Phillips,

    PakingEye Reference No. xxx

    I went shopping at Morrison’s on xxxx at xxxx. I have always preferred to use Morrison’s due to the excellent quality of fish and meat services over your competitors.

    As a regular customer to Morrison’s I was shocked to receive a Parking Charge Notice from Parking Eye telling me that I have been charged £85 for overstaying in the carpark. I was confused as to how they had come up with this extortionate amount so I am appealing straight to yourself to review this case.

    Although I don't still have the receipts, I do have my bank statements showing that I am a regular shopper to that particular store. Should you require sight of them I would be happy to send you copies.

    I have been hounded by ParkingEye for several months now and they have gone as far as to threaten court proceedings against me! Had I known the situation I find myself in now I would never have chosen Morrison’s to do my shopping. I find it outrageous that a store of Morrison's size and excellent reputation can allow this blatant harassment of its customers to continue.

    As a loyal customer of Morrison’s Supermarket I am disappointed that this is allowed to happen and I would appreciate it if the store could show discretion and cancel this Parking Charge. You will understand that I am reluctant to do my shopping at Morrison’s again until the charge has been cancelled.

    As said, I would be grateful for your assistance in this matter.

    Yours sincerely

    xxxx

    I am not expecting him to cancel the PCN but this is now about not giving in or taking no for an answer. If he does cancel it, that would be a bonus!

    Now for the reply to PE's template letter....
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Aug 14, 10:35 AM
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    Redx
    excellent letter m8

    exactly how it should be, I only wish more people would do the same to inform these companies how they are losing business and customer loyalty

    my local morrissons has no parking restrictions and no PPC either
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Aug 14, 10:51 AM
    • 25,118 Posts
    • 40,518 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Good letter. There's just one bit I'd change if you feel so inclined.

    As a loyal customer of Morrison’s Supermarket I am disappointed that this is allowed to happen and I would appreciate it if the store could show discretion and ask your agent - ParkingEye - to cancel this Parking Charge. You will understand that I am reluctant to do my shopping at Morrison’s again until the charge has been cancelled.
    I wouldn't be asking them to 'show discretion' towards a regular and loyal customer - especially given the rate of knots at which they are currently losing them - they shouldn't be risking losing any more through the actions of an agent whose pursuit of its own profits inevitably impacts negatively on the profits of Morrisons and is therefore completely counter-productive. You might want to build words in to that effect.

    Anyway, once again, good letter. Do come back and let us know how it goes.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Aug 14, 1:27 PM
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    • 31,970 Thanks
    Redx
    should have done this months ago though

    however, have a read of this as its similar but a different PPC, same supermarket

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5031520&page=2
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 11th Aug 14, 2:18 PM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    GingerBob
    PE are certainly determined. I moved house late last year AND changed my vehicle...not because of this parking fine!
    They eventually found me at my new address and so the pestering continues!
    I'm determined not to give in though. These companies are no different to the scum bag clampers.
    Originally posted by meanmrmustard
    Any idea how they tracked you down? PE is part of Capita plc, who will have enormous resources when it comes to personal/private data. Just wondering if there's been some data misuse here.
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 11th Aug 14, 3:19 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    meanmrmustard
    GingerBob they used a credit reference agency

    Their exact words were:

    ParkingEye has also sent you correspondence to the address contained on the original Parking Charge Notice on…. (3 separate dates)… these address details were provided by the DVLA. As no response was received after a number of letters were issued to this address, ParkingEye used a credit reference agency to ensure we had the correct address details for the registered keeper of the vehicle. In some cases the credit reference agency found that, according to their records, the registered keeper of this vehicle was residing at a new address.
    Last edited by meanmrmustard; 11-08-2014 at 3:21 PM. Reason: Copy and Pasting error
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 11th Aug 14, 3:42 PM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    GingerBob
    GingerBob they used a credit reference agency

    Their exact words were:

    ParkingEye has also sent you correspondence to the address contained on the original Parking Charge Notice on…. (3 separate dates)… these address details were provided by the DVLA. As no response was received after a number of letters were issued to this address, ParkingEye used a credit reference agency to ensure we had the correct address details for the registered keeper of the vehicle. In some cases the credit reference agency found that, according to their records, the registered keeper of this vehicle was residing at a new address.
    Originally posted by meanmrmustard
    My understanding of how CRAs operate is that they will interact with someone that has bought a debt off one of their members - a member being a financial institution that reports to them. I may stand corrected on this, but I didn't think they provided an address tracing facility to any Tom, !!!! or Harry. Having said that; it wouldn't surprise me if they did, since CRAs are at the same level of the food chain as PPCs (bottom feeders). I would welcome other views on this possible data protection issue. According to this, the PPCs (or is it just the one owned by Capita) have unfettered access to CRA data.
    • meanmrmustard
    • By meanmrmustard 12th Aug 14, 7:43 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    meanmrmustard
    Just a quick question. I now live in Scotland and I hear the laws are slightly different here. Even though the case took place in England will this make any difference to my situation?
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