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    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 2nd May 14, 3:58 PM
    • 11,124Posts
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    edinburgher
    Only freedom will do
    • #1
    • 2nd May 14, 3:58 PM
    Only freedom will do 2nd May 14 at 3:58 PM
    It has come to my attention that I have been here for a very long time

    I joined these forums in a dim and distant past, where money was my enemy and the weight of my student debts left me crushed and panicked, unable to picture a future where I would be able to get a debit card (never mind a mortgage).

    5 years later and the milestones of marriage, first home and first car have come and gone. Throughout it all, I have had a creeping feeling that something wasnít quite right. I donít get the world of work, and while Iíve never been unemployed in my adult life, Iíve tried too hard to try my hand at too many things and Iím left feeling like Iím an actor who recognises the play, but does not understand his motivation.

    As some of you will know, I have experienced some real heartache of late. Your messages of support and hope have been so touching and in many cases, I have got more comfort from anonymous individuals who took the time to get in touch than people I know in the Ďrealí world.

    While money would have done nothing to prevent it, the luxury of savings and our hard work over the years meant that we were in a position to make the right decisions and take our time with our next steps. Returning to work has been a real blow and without sounding even more melodramatic, I donít think Iíd realised just how damaging I find the merry-go-round of rote work, office politics and bureaucracy.

    It wonít do, I canít believe that this is as good as it gets and to quote one of my favourite singers ĎWe can always build a world better than thisí.

    From this point on, I plan to dedicate myself to achieving financial independence. Not MFW, but freedom from all the nonsense that we go through to just to pay for a pile of bricks and a few years of leisure at the end of our span.

    Hopefully you can join me for the journey
Page 273
    • ajmoney
    • By ajmoney 13th Mar 17, 4:36 PM
    • 4,866 Posts
    • 55,607 Thanks
    ajmoney
    That got me started on some internet searching - I've actually made a mistake - the increase is 10.5%

    It is pathetic that I am bracketed with the wealthiest people in the country when we own a 3 bedroom shoebox in a nondescript suburb

    I'm actually in favour of increased taxes to solve budgetary problems where the money is spent well, but this is too high an increase to be ignored.
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    I am burying my head in the sand and waiting for our breakdown to come through...what band are you in?

    Edit - I have just checked, I should be grateful that ours is only going up by £27 a month after a 10 year freeze.
    Last edited by ajmoney; 13-03-2017 at 4:39 PM.
    2018 MFW No. 70 £3088.14/£6000
    MFiT-T4 No. 70 £27228.76/£29544
    Mortgage £111108.81 Savings £90273.40
    Total left to pay/save £20835.41
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 13th Mar 17, 4:52 PM
    • 11,124 Posts
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    edinburgher
    Band E.

    Unlike yourself (I'm guessing), we pretty much bought the most house we could afford in an area with fantastic schools. Our real increase may only be £25/month, but that's a lot when you're on 1.5 salaries that just about make it to the median for the UK.
    • Knit Witch
    • By Knit Witch 13th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    • 3,435 Posts
    • 31,341 Thanks
    Knit Witch
    I host my blog/s through heart internet
    V3ry - £389.60
    • Suffolk lass
    • By Suffolk lass 13th Mar 17, 7:35 PM
    • 1,985 Posts
    • 20,693 Thanks
    Suffolk lass
    My Mum's in East Ayrshire and lives alone. With her 25% discount hers is still up by £32 a month from £202 to £234. She won't consider moving because it was the house she shared with my Dad until he died.
    MFiT T4 #2 update 88.72% after Q9 tiny bit ahead of where I should be
    Save £12k in 2018 #53 - after March 19.96% £1,996.19/£10,000 5.04% behind
    OS Grocery Challenge 2018 spent £721.33/£3,000 including stores so far 24.04% of my annual budget at the end of April
    My DFD is here
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 19th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
    • 29,221 Posts
    • 166,982 Thanks
    Karmacat
    Just catching up, Ed - I buy my domains through 123reg, my current live sites are on tsohost (whose admin is very complicated, even though they're cheap and efficient, I don't like the admin, and I'm moving). Weebly has our old work website, and they give you 500MB of free bandwidith, but they're so massive you'll never speak to anyone, which is a real plus with tsohost, they really did talk me through some backroom stuff. For simple buying of a domain, 123reg remains my standard.
    Retired August 2016
    • earthgirl
    • By earthgirl 19th Mar 17, 3:58 PM
    • 1,997 Posts
    • 22,394 Thanks
    earthgirl
    I use godaddy and heart internet. Both are really simple. Hearts servers are Europe (London) based and this used to help us with ranking better for U.K. Searches. Not sure if this is still a factor in the algorithm or not!
    15/5/12 Paid off Mortgage 1 (£220k) Dec 13 - £116,508 Bought Dream House Dec 14 - £94, 402 (£22,106 offset in 2014) Jan 16 - £67, 852 (£26,550 offset in 2015) Dec 16 - £33,529 ( £34,323offset in 2016)
    Jan 17 - £39, 773 (Re-estimation of endowments )
    Sept 17 £22,619 Jan 18 - £11,687 Mar 18 -£8524
    Kids savings 13,578/36k
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 19th Mar 17, 8:52 PM
    • 6,066 Posts
    • 32,099 Thanks
    AlexLK
    Council tax has risen here too by 2.6%; not quite so bad as your rise.

    Quite surprised your house is a Band E (from what you've said about it before), it may be worth trying to get is re-banded. Mine is Band D and if I am recalling the details about your house correctly, is larger and has quite a lot more land. I don't live in the ghetto, either.
    2018 totals:
    Savings £7,600
    Mortgage Overpayments £1,750
    • SuperSecretSquirrel
    • By SuperSecretSquirrel 20th Mar 17, 8:01 AM
    • 683 Posts
    • 3,055 Thanks
    SuperSecretSquirrel
    Council tax has risen here too by 2.6%; not quite so bad as your rise.

    Quite surprised your house is a Band E (from what you've said about it before), it may be worth trying to get is re-banded. Mine is Band D and if I am recalling the details about your house correctly, is larger and has quite a lot more land. I don't live in the ghetto, either.
    Originally posted by AlexLK
    Bands are based on property value back in 1991. First I thought a case of location location location - a studio flat in central London could no doubt be valued higher than some massive rural barn conversions, so could easily end up in a higher band. It's actually harsher than that though, moved goalposts for Scotland:

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/council-tax-bands-change

    Value in 1991 range for band E in England £88,001 - £120,000 and Scotland £58,001 - £80,000

    Of course houses in Scotland may well have been cheap back in 1991, but I'd guess not necessarily the case when considering a desirable area of a major city.

    Mtg [2013 £64k|2014 £51k|2015 £38k|2016 £26k|2017 14k] Zero!
    MN [2013-£25k|2014-£2k|2015+£16k|2016+£34k|2017+£52k] +£55,209.85 (MFiT4:+60k)
    NW [2013 £126k|2014 £156k|2015 £190k|2016 £228k|2017 £269k] £274,532.45 (2020:300k)
    FI [2013 -1.2%|2014 2.8%|2015 6.9%|2016 13%|2017 18%] 30.0% (exc SP)
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 20th Mar 17, 9:52 AM
    • 6,066 Posts
    • 32,099 Thanks
    AlexLK
    There's yet another reason to choose a rural area over an urban one. Banding for Scotland seems really unfair, though I think council tax is ridiculous. I cannot see how living in a house of greater value correlates to a greater use of public services controlled by local government. If anything, I'd imagine in most cases the opposite to be true.
    2018 totals:
    Savings £7,600
    Mortgage Overpayments £1,750
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 20th Mar 17, 1:12 PM
    • 11,124 Posts
    • 59,725 Thanks
    edinburgher
    Not entirely sure that's true SSS? I seem to recall Westminster having some of the lowest council tax in the country?

    I'm not sure Alex understands the link between tax and broader shoulders...
    • Suffolk lass
    • By Suffolk lass 20th Mar 17, 3:34 PM
    • 1,985 Posts
    • 20,693 Thanks
    Suffolk lass
    Not entirely sure that's true SSS? I seem to recall Westminster having some of the lowest council tax in the country?
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    Ah yes, that was in the days of the Tesco heir - Dame Shirley Porter. [The Thatcherite leader of Westminster City Council was the first to really decimate public services in the name of lowering rates/community charges/poll taxes/Council Tax - relying on people thinking they were just paying for streetlights and bin collections.]

    Sorry. I apologise for ranting about the loathsome woman
    Last edited by Suffolk lass; 20-03-2017 at 3:36 PM. Reason: Apologise for ranting
    MFiT T4 #2 update 88.72% after Q9 tiny bit ahead of where I should be
    Save £12k in 2018 #53 - after March 19.96% £1,996.19/£10,000 5.04% behind
    OS Grocery Challenge 2018 spent £721.33/£3,000 including stores so far 24.04% of my annual budget at the end of April
    My DFD is here
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 20th Mar 17, 4:52 PM
    • 6,066 Posts
    • 32,099 Thanks
    AlexLK
    I'm not sure Alex understands the link between tax and broader shoulders...
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    I understand that link perfectly well and plan accordingly so as to pay as little tax as is legally possible.

    If there has to be a tax to provide local government services (not sure why income, corporation, VAT etc. taxes aren't enough) everyone should pay a flat rate. It shouldn't be based on what the property you live in is worth.
    2018 totals:
    Savings £7,600
    Mortgage Overpayments £1,750
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 20th Mar 17, 5:24 PM
    • 11,124 Posts
    • 59,725 Thanks
    edinburgher
    So a billionaire should pay the same taxes as a 95 year old widower with only the state pension for income? How unenlightened!

    I have nothing against using legal means to reduce taxes, but flat taxes sound like a terrible idea
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 20th Mar 17, 10:36 PM
    • 6,066 Posts
    • 32,099 Thanks
    AlexLK
    The problem arises when the 95 year old widower is living in a Band H property. In the Derbyshire Dales district he'd be paying c.£3,500 per annum to the local council, just as the billionaire living in a Band H property would be.

    If we were taxed a flat rate for each person, I think the majority would be paying less. I may be wrong about this but there has got to be a better way than taxing for local services based on property value?
    2018 totals:
    Savings £7,600
    Mortgage Overpayments £1,750
    • Greying Pilgrim
    • By Greying Pilgrim 21st Mar 17, 8:09 AM
    • 4,228 Posts
    • 47,197 Thanks
    Greying Pilgrim
    If we were taxed a flat rate for each person, I think the majority would be paying less. I may be wrong about this but there has got to be a better way than taxing for local services based on property value?
    Originally posted by AlexLK
    I rather thought we had that Alex - it was called the 'poll tax' or 'per head' tax. In theory it should have been fairer, but I seem to recall an awful lot of unfairness and an awful lot of opposition to it. I seem to recall paying a similar amount in poll tax, to what my household council tax is now. Regretfully I don't have 'THE' answer that would make the burden fair for all shoulders to bear, but a flat tax is not without its problems, and it has been tried (although whether much thought was put into it's development is a mootpoint).

    Greying
    'Ich habe genug' 'Your Vibe attracts your Tribe'

    'I am not in the pursuit of happiness, only in the discovery of joy' - Joyce Grenfell
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 21st Mar 17, 9:22 AM
    • 11,124 Posts
    • 59,725 Thanks
    edinburgher
    The problem arises when the 95 year old widower is living in a Band H property. In the Derbyshire Dales district he'd be paying c.£3,500 per annum to the local council, just as the billionaire living in a Band H property would be.

    If we were taxed a flat rate for each person, I think the majority would be paying less. I may be wrong about this but there has got to be a better way than taxing for local services based on property value?
    Originally posted by AlexLK
    I don't follow? Both are rich in bricks and mortar and pay the same amount for enjoying the ownership of a larger/more expensive than average home.

    Surely a better example of what you're proposing would be said widower paying the same council tax on a tiny bedsit as the billionaire does on his Band H country pile?

    Now that is unfair, as by virtue of his larger 'chunk' of land, the billionaire does consume more services than the widower.
    • Suffolk lass
    • By Suffolk lass 21st Mar 17, 9:31 AM
    • 1,985 Posts
    • 20,693 Thanks
    Suffolk lass
    I don't follow? Both are rich in bricks and mortar and pay the same amount for enjoying the ownership of a larger/more expensive than average home.

    Surely a better example of what you're proposing would be said widower paying the same council tax on a tiny bedsit as the billionaire does on his Band H country pile?

    Now that is unfair, as by virtue of his larger 'chunk' of land, the billionaire does consume more services than the widower.
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    Not necessarily. The billionaire may be a work-obsessed single woman, in rude health consuming nothing but bin-collections while the widower needs social care to maintain his independent living, needed to downsize to an urbanisation where he could collect his grandchildren from school, and feels safer walking under streetlights than he did in his rural property. That's at least three services he is directly or indirectly consuming...
    MFiT T4 #2 update 88.72% after Q9 tiny bit ahead of where I should be
    Save £12k in 2018 #53 - after March 19.96% £1,996.19/£10,000 5.04% behind
    OS Grocery Challenge 2018 spent £721.33/£3,000 including stores so far 24.04% of my annual budget at the end of April
    My DFD is here
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 21st Mar 17, 10:59 AM
    • 11,124 Posts
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    edinburgher
    I find the use of bold a little patronising if I'm honest SL.

    Alex supports a flat tax, I think that this is unfair due to a discrepancy in services consumed. I can't see that adding hypotheticals as to what services you think our hypothetical consumers are using advances either argument.

    It is reasonable to assume that a larger property costs more for the council to service as: it generates more rubbish (or potentially does as it has more principle apartments), can house more people (greater demand on schools, doctors social care), requires the expenditure of more manpower to support (as it covers a larger area of land, there will be more roads (distance) and streetlights (quantity) to keep people travelling to and from it safe.

    In any case, we need to talk about the same thing. My billionaire/widower example was intended to show why I felt Alex wasn't doing this.
    Last edited by edinburgher; 21-03-2017 at 11:04 AM.
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 21st Mar 17, 6:18 PM
    • 6,066 Posts
    • 32,099 Thanks
    AlexLK
    I rather thought we had that Alex - it was called the 'poll tax' or 'per head' tax. In theory it should have been fairer, but I seem to recall an awful lot of unfairness and an awful lot of opposition to it. I seem to recall paying a similar amount in poll tax, to what my household council tax is now. Regretfully I don't have 'THE' answer that would make the burden fair for all shoulders to bear, but a flat tax is not without its problems, and it has been tried (although whether much thought was put into it's development is a mootpoint).

    Greying
    Originally posted by Greying Pilgrim
    Thanks, Greying.

    I was still at school when we had the poll tax. All I remember about it centred around the reporting of its opposition. However, I'm not really sure how it was unfair (do not know much about it).

    I don't follow? Both are rich in bricks and mortar and pay the same amount for enjoying the ownership of a larger/more expensive than average home.

    Surely a better example of what you're proposing would be said widower paying the same council tax on a tiny bedsit as the billionaire does on his Band H country pile?

    Now that is unfair, as by virtue of his larger 'chunk' of land, the billionaire does consume more services than the widower.
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    There are a lot of people "rich" in bricks and mortar but have little in terms of cash. A lot of the population seem quick to classify people as being "rich" when they aren't really. Besides, most people go through financial ups and downs over the course of their lives, regardless of the house they are living in.

    I think if there needs to be a tax for local services (personally, I think the government should fund local services from all the other taxes we pay and cannot see how they fail to balance their accounts when there is so much revenue), it should be based on a personal rate rather than the value of the property lived in.

    I find the use of bold a little patronising if I'm honest SL.

    Alex supports a flat tax, I think that this is unfair due to a discrepancy in services consumed. I can't see that adding hypotheticals as to what services you think our hypothetical consumers are using advances either argument.

    It is reasonable to assume that a larger property costs more for the council to service as: it generates more rubbish (or potentially does as it has more principle apartments), can house more people (greater demand on schools, doctors social care), requires the expenditure of more manpower to support (as it covers a larger area of land, there will be more roads (distance) and streetlights (quantity) to keep people travelling to and from it safe.

    In any case, we need to talk about the same thing. My billionaire/widower example was intended to show why I felt Alex wasn't doing this.
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    I don't think council tax pays for GP surgeries (NI?) or roads (VED?). I could be wrong, though.

    However, some things you mention there are much more relevant in a city: roads - a lot of large houses will be supported by a private lane leading to an existing road and streetlights - what are those?! No streetlights near my property or near my parents' property. Plenty near my in-law's property though and they pay significantly less in council tax.

    Thinking about the services we're talking about I wonder if a pay as you use type tax would work and be fairer, e.g. if you have streetlights, you pay a proportion of the cost to run them. Not having streetlights close to my house would mean I didn't pay that particular component but as my son currently attends the village school, I would pay the school component until he left.
    2018 totals:
    Savings £7,600
    Mortgage Overpayments £1,750
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 21st Mar 17, 7:38 PM
    • 11,124 Posts
    • 59,725 Thanks
    edinburgher
    Thinking about the services we're talking about I wonder if a pay as you use type tax would work and be fairer, e.g. if you have streetlights, you pay a proportion of the cost to run them. Not having streetlights close to my house would mean I didn't pay that particular component but as my son currently attends the village school, I would pay the school component until he left.
    You're probably right re. GPs, I had always thought that some healthcare stuff (local primary care centre type things) were funded by CT, I am wrong on that front.

    Your large house with a private lane is large, ergo it uses more of the public road to connect it with the rest of civilization, raising costs (even without streetlights).

    I think your 'PAYG' tax will not work - why don't we replace it with a tax that bundles together lots of services and tries to charge people based on their ability to pay? We could call it 'Council Tax'
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