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  • FIRST POST
    • joylikes2shop
    • By joylikes2shop 8th Nov 13, 10:36 PM
    • 471Posts
    • 814Thanks
    joylikes2shop
    Vinyl wrapped kitchen doors 'bubbling' ??
    • #1
    • 8th Nov 13, 10:36 PM
    Vinyl wrapped kitchen doors 'bubbling' ?? 8th Nov 13 at 10:36 PM
    My friends Shaker style, 'Vinyl wrapped' or (Foil wrapped ??) kitchen cabinet doors ( 8 years old) AND wardrobe doors - supplied and fitted at the same time by the same supplier- are starting to 'bubble'. The vinyl is separating from the frame beneath....

    Does anyone know if this is normal for doors of this age or if they can be fixed by being heat treated or glued by the manufacturer ?
Page 3
    • redginger44
    • By redginger44 13th Mar 17, 7:40 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    redginger44
    I too would be interested in this as we originally had our kitchen fitted in 2013 and by 2014 all of the doors had split and have been replaced - however now one of the end panels is going again can anybody advise where I stand with this please ?
    • 3mph
    • By 3mph 14th Mar 17, 8:00 AM
    • 239 Posts
    • 262 Thanks
    3mph
    Moneyistoo.... We had second nature kitchen very expensive high gloss started to bubble after 4 years supplier BKS Swansea replaced some then refused then went bankrupt then started again same name and people. I would never buy from second nature or use BKS whatever they call themselves again.
    • Spanish1
    • By Spanish1 20th Jul 17, 10:08 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Spanish1
    Me too
    Have raised this very issue with Homebase recently on a Schreiber kitchen ordered in 2012 but delivered 2013. Assessor when they came said well you've had it since 2012, not once but all the way through the conversation. All the base units have bubbling and lifting, which she tried to say is normal wear and tear. I pointed out that (a) I was told these units could be cleaned with a cleaning product without bleach, untrue, (even the assessor said they should only be cleaned with soap and water. (b) Shreiber are supposed to offer a 15 year guarantee. Apparently the model I chose is no longer available so they are, they say looking into it. Also apparently this brand has now been sold to Argos, says it all. I am awaiting their reply to my concerns and trust they will not try to fob me off with a mismatch. What law did you take them to court under, as obviously this kitchen is not fit for the job. She even said I shouldn't steam clean the floor, and perhaps there had been a spillage on one unit, yes it is a kitchen not a display unit. I am going to be generous and give them a couple of months, otherwise I will be telling them that they replace all the doors or I will be claiming money back under VISA. but would be interested to know what rule you got in your favour.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 21st Jul 17, 2:18 PM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,889 Thanks
    Furts
    Have raised this very issue with Homebase recently on a Schreiber kitchen ordered in 2012 but delivered 2013. Assessor when they came said well you've had it since 2012, not once but all the way through the conversation. All the base units have bubbling and lifting, which she tried to say is normal wear and tear. I pointed out that (a) I was told these units could be cleaned with a cleaning product without bleach, untrue, (even the assessor said they should only be cleaned with soap and water. (b) Shreiber are supposed to offer a 15 year guarantee. Apparently the model I chose is no longer available so they are, they say looking into it. Also apparently this brand has now been sold to Argos, says it all. I am awaiting their reply to my concerns and trust they will not try to fob me off with a mismatch. What law did you take them to court under, as obviously this kitchen is not fit for the job. She even said I shouldn't steam clean the floor, and perhaps there had been a spillage on one unit, yes it is a kitchen not a display unit. I am going to be generous and give them a couple of months, otherwise I will be telling them that they replace all the doors or I will be claiming money back under VISA. but would be interested to know what rule you got in your favour.
    Originally posted by Spanish1
    Would VISA refund your money? if you went into Argos and purchased the cheapest, poorest quality Bush television and it lasted five years would VISA refund your money? I do not know the answer but one has to be reasonable. You made a conscious decision to purchase a poor quality, short life span kitchen. You also seem to be saying it has been subject to moisture, bleach, steam cleaning or whatever.

    Some folks might suggest you purchased cheap and then abused the product and are now complaining that after five years wear tear, and abuse, it is no longer in pristine condition.

    This might be one of life's learning curve examples. You will know what to specify, and look after next time?
    • barbskev
    • By barbskev 28th Mar 18, 5:09 PM
    • 2 Posts
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    barbskev
    thermofoil coming off
    I am shocked at the sneering attitude in some of the replies. When I buy any furniture I expect it to last. I bought Sharps bedroom wardrobes probably in 1998, OK 20 years. Why shouldn't they last? They are great in every way except for the loosening of the foil on a couple of doors. It happened on a door about 15 years or so ago and Sharps replaced the door. These cupboard doors cost me a lot of money back then, half price sale or not!
    I'm wondering whether to try ironing the foil back, with a cloth between of course. Any thoughts?
    • Furts
    • By Furts 28th Mar 18, 6:21 PM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,889 Thanks
    Furts
    I am shocked at the sneering attitude in some of the replies. When I buy any furniture I expect it to last. I bought Sharps bedroom wardrobes probably in 1998, OK 20 years. Why shouldn't they last? They are great in every way except for the loosening of the foil on a couple of doors. It happened on a door about 15 years or so ago and Sharps replaced the door. These cupboard doors cost me a lot of money back then, half price sale or not!
    I'm wondering whether to try ironing the foil back, with a cloth between of course. Any thoughts?
    Originally posted by barbskev
    Unfortunately you may regard it as sneering whilst others might regard it as a reality check. It is simply a matter of buyer beware. Nobody who buys vinyl wrapped kitchen doors should be thinking they are buying a quality item. Further this quality has nothing to do with retail prices. Vinyl wrapped doors are an example of the kitchen industry buying in dirt cheap doors and selling them for the maximum price they can. Consumers who are not savvy then get sucked into this.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 28th Mar 18, 6:35 PM
    • 17,558 Posts
    • 49,255 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    An easy mistake for a consumer to make.

    When I had my new kitchen recently then I found that vinyl-wrapped doors are something that have come on the scene since I had the kitchen in my starter house done.

    I'm just thankful I realised it was them that I was being quoted for (instead of "proper doors") by a local kitchen place and that there were threads up on MSE saying what they are like. Cue for me dropping that local kitchen place like a stone and finding another place instead and telling them that, under no circumstances, was I going to have doors like that and mine were to be solid wood.

    Only too thankful I'd sussed by that point that there are many local firms that local people are telling me are good - but it ain't so. I was being told that firm are good too - but they're rubbish in actual fact.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 28-03-2018 at 6:38 PM.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 28th Mar 18, 7:40 PM
    • 30,156 Posts
    • 103,667 Thanks
    Davesnave
    I am shocked at the sneering attitude in some of the replies. When I buy any furniture I expect it to last.
    Originally posted by barbskev
    Why be shocked if someone explains in plain language that there may be a problem with a product's longevity?

    MSE is about making informed choices.

    A vinyl wrapped door may be appropriate in some situations. For example, vinyl wrapped doors are fine in my very workaday utility room. I didn't think it worth paying for solid wood doors in there. They'll look OK for about 10 years and won't owe me anything if I replace them after that time.
    You have been warned!
    • Slinky
    • By Slinky 28th Mar 18, 8:12 PM
    • 6,445 Posts
    • 30,565 Thanks
    Slinky
    I am shocked at the sneering attitude in some of the replies. When I buy any furniture I expect it to last. I bought Sharps bedroom wardrobes probably in 1998, OK 20 years. Why shouldn't they last? They are great in every way except for the loosening of the foil on a couple of doors. It happened on a door about 15 years or so ago and Sharps replaced the door. These cupboard doors cost me a lot of money back then, half price sale or not!
    I'm wondering whether to try ironing the foil back, with a cloth between of course. Any thoughts?
    Originally posted by barbskev

    I've had the foil loosening on my Sharps bedroom doors. I had one replaced under warranty many years ago, the chap who replaced them said he had a full time job replacing these doors.... After the warranty ran out when I've had loose foil I've held it back in place with a run of sellotape along the length of the loose edge. Fortunately mine are the fake pine doors and these taped edges aren't visible. It does enough just to stop you catching the loose foil and breaking it off.


    I won't be buying Sharps again.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 29th Mar 18, 7:21 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,889 Thanks
    Furts
    I've had the foil loosening on my Sharps bedroom doors. I had one replaced under warranty many years ago, the chap who replaced them said he had a full time job replacing these doors.... After the warranty ran out when I've had loose foil I've held it back in place with a run of sellotape along the length of the loose edge. Fortunately mine are the fake pine doors and these taped edges aren't visible. It does enough just to stop you catching the loose foil and breaking it off.


    I won't be buying Sharps again.
    Originally posted by Slinky
    Are you being unfair to Sharps? You will have done a price versus quality versus life expectancy decision when you purchased. You were happy with the doors then. They were clearly not solid timber, so there were going to be compromises. Then were clearly not lipped mfc, so again there were going to be compromises. And frequently wardrobe doors are allowed to become ill adjusted and they drag on carpets, they catch on edges and such like. So damage occurs caused by consumers.

    You have received many years life from the doors so are you right to complain here? Is this really a Sharps problem?
    • Slinky
    • By Slinky 29th Mar 18, 12:31 PM
    • 6,445 Posts
    • 30,565 Thanks
    Slinky
    Are you being unfair to Sharps? You will have done a price versus quality versus life expectancy decision when you purchased. You were happy with the doors then. They were clearly not solid timber, so there were going to be compromises. Then were clearly not lipped mfc, so again there were going to be compromises. And frequently wardrobe doors are allowed to become ill adjusted and they drag on carpets, they catch on edges and such like. So damage occurs caused by consumers.

    You have received many years life from the doors so are you right to complain here? Is this really a Sharps problem?
    Originally posted by Furts
    Whoa there. Hang on a minute, don't get all heavy handed with me! I was just replying to the poster who wanted a solution to his foil problem which I gave him!

    Our doors don't drag on the floor, there's a two inch+ gap between the doors and the floor. The places where the foils have lifted have actually been the long edges of the doors and the top of the drawers.

    The fitter who replaced ours under warranty said he'd got a full time job going round replacing these exact same doors with the same problem. He'd just come from one customer who had the whole lot done.

    I merely stated that I wouldn't be buying Sharps again, where did I say I was complaining?!!!!

    ETA They weren't cheap either. £2K for a triple wardrobe, and 3 small chests of drawers in 1998.

    And I've no idea what 'lipped mfc' is.
    Last edited by Slinky; 29-03-2018 at 1:00 PM.
    • motleyinvestor
    • By motleyinvestor 12th Jun 18, 11:01 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    motleyinvestor
    Vinyl Wrap Doors Delaminating
    All doors/drawers/end panels have delaminated 5 years installation which was very frustrating. All the kitchen cabinets and worktops are fine.

    After a lot of talking to people and web research, look for "bespoke interiors" and "vinyl-doors-pros-and-cons"
    Extract below:
    "... The vinyl door industry had a real problem around 2007-2009. At the time, door manufacturers were unaware that MDF board manufacturers had changed the way they manufactured MDF, specifically that they had begun using a different type of adhesive to bond the fibres together.

    The new adhesives reacted with the adhesives used to laminate the vinyl to the MDF and unfortunately the reaction wasn’t instant so it wasn’t immediately picked up on. It took nearly 5 years for the doors to begin peeling and the peeling was extensive! There were occasions when the entire kitchen door delaminated with the handle being the only thing keeping the vinyl on the door. Because the board manufacturers supply most door manufacturers, the results were the same for nearly every vinyl door supplier in the industry.

    Thankfully this problem was rectified and through this process the industry learned a lot and now produces better adhesives and can now give longer guarantees as mentioned above. This problem is now a thing of the past……but that doesn’t mean the doors can never peel!"

    Thankfully the company (ECF) who produced the doors agreed to replace all the failed components free of charge. Next time I would not choose Vinyl Wrap and instead look at alternative products such as painted wood, acrylic, lacquered or Egger board (e.g. PerfectSense) . They will cost more but worth it rather than having problems in years to come. If you are really stuck, then google around and there are people who have tried to glue the delaminated Vinyl Wraps back down.
    • frankie
    • By frankie 13th Jun 18, 10:21 AM
    • 765 Posts
    • 299 Thanks
    frankie
    So is there an idiot's guide from the 'expert' knowledge base on here for non-savvy consumers about what types of doors are currently available along with their pro's and cons.


    I have tried googling but it is so confusing!
    • Furts
    • By Furts 13th Jun 18, 11:35 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,889 Thanks
    Furts
    So is there an idiot's guide from the 'expert' knowledge base on here for non-savvy consumers about what types of doors are currently available along with their pro's and cons.


    I have tried googling but it is so confusing!
    Originally posted by frankie
    Solid timber doors are foolproof. Obviously treat with respect, and timber needs a sealing coat be this a paint, a laquer, a wax or whatever. But then think laterally - the Victorians and right through to WW2 and all internal doors on houses were made like this. They took endless bashing and survived. Today people wants things cheap, they do not want things to last, they want their doors to be obsolete within say 5 years. Consequently good timber doors are not fashionable, be it on houses or on kitchens. But also nothing wrong with a timber door with an inset laminated panel - it will be cheaper. But again it is not fashionable.

    If you get mdf doors there is a problem - even if the finish seems good you do not know the type, or grade of mdf used to make the doors. Plus mdf does not take kindly to knocks on the edges.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 22nd Jul 19, 8:34 AM
    • 6,585 Posts
    • 9,362 Thanks
    deannatrois
    Some of this was entered in error so not fair to leave it in place.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 22-07-2019 at 9:29 AM.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 28th Aug 19, 8:29 PM
    • 28,039 Posts
    • 74,463 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    That would be pretty MSE if you hadn't have put your company name in. It's against the rules.

    Any chance of you removing that rather than losing your post through it being reported?
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Loddonite
    • By Loddonite 15th Jan 20, 6:06 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Loddonite
    Kitchen Doors bubbling
    There are two legal routes that I am aware of: the first is current consumer protection legislation. There is a second option for those whose kitchen is now out of the period covered by the Consumer Rights Act and that is the Latent Damage Act. This potentially provides redress for customers whose vinyl-wrapped kitchens are showing signs of bubbling, cracking and splitting and where this can be shown to be a result of an inherent manufacturing defect that the seller would or could have been aware of. Applications to court need to be submitted within 12 years of the date that the units were fitted by the supplier, depending on when you first noticed the issue. I suggest that you consult a solicitor (NB I am not a solicitor!).
    • thrombel
    • By thrombel 15th Jan 20, 6:48 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    thrombel
    I'm also wondering about German kitchens. I do have a distinct preference for buying German whenever I can.

    Does anyone know of stockists of cheap to mid-price range German kitchens in West Wales?

    I do know about Homebase stocking Odina kitchens - but I'm not too sure about them and they don't seem to have the Shaker kitchens I like in that range either.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    We have got a German kitchen. Its made by Kuhlmann. Nearly 7 years old & no signs of wear or tear whatsoever. It gets a lot of usage - family of 4.

    Gloss units with 12 coats of lacquer. Very strong & durable. But this obviously comes at a price....

    Theres also Schuller (German kitchen manufactuer) who at the time of us getting quotes, had lacquered doors too, but were cheaper than Kuhlmann.

    When looking around, ask if the doors are lacquered or foil wrapped....
    & how many coats of lacquer.....

    Check out independent kitchen retailers who stock German kitchens.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 15th Jan 20, 10:35 AM
    • 30,156 Posts
    • 103,667 Thanks
    Davesnave
    We have got a German kitchen. Its made by Kuhlmann. Nearly 7 years old & no signs of wear or tear whatsoever. It gets a lot of usage - family of 4.

    Gloss units with 12 coats of lacquer. Very strong & durable. But this obviously comes at a price....

    Theres also Schuller (German kitchen manufactuer) who at the time of us getting quotes, had lacquered doors too, but were cheaper than Kuhlmann.

    When looking around, ask if the doors are lacquered or foil wrapped....
    & how many coats of lacquer.....

    Check out independent kitchen retailers who stock German kitchens.
    Originally posted by thrombel
    This is all very interesting, but this thread has already had more lives than a cat and the person whom you quoted has long since had their kitchen installed.


    ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT!
    You have been warned!
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