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  • FIRST POST
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 12:28 AM
    • 17,875Posts
    • 1,024,767Thanks
    thingamaBob
    PE PCN - appeal advice please- PCN CANCELLED
    • #1
    • 17th Oct 13, 12:28 AM
    PE PCN - appeal advice please- PCN CANCELLED 17th Oct 13 at 12:28 AM
    Hi guys,

    I received a PCN from PE a couple of days ago and have spent most of my available time since, reading threads to try to get to grips with everything. I would once have taken it in reasonable well but I seem to be getting a bit slow in my old age and finding it quite confusing and stressful.

    The story is the wife went to the Brotherhood Shopping Park, Peterborough on Sunday a couple of weeks ago. It was lovely day and she was in no hurry, not that she can rush round much anyway these days. She spent quite a time in M&S looking at their sale goods before making purchases. Moved on to their food market and made more purchases. Then she moved on Asda and made even more purchases. Doesn't sound a lot but it seems she spent about three and a half hours in all.

    This is a site that we have been using for many years and there have never been any parking charges or use restrictions. The site has recently been revamped and it seems that they have now introduced a 3 hour stay limit. Not sure when the restriction was introduced but it could be as far back as January. The wife has been a regular visitor to this park but had not particularly noticed that signs had been erected but they are indeed there. I haven't seen it myself yet but she says there is a sign at the entrance, at about driver height but, not expecting any restrictions, she hadn't taken any particular notice of it.

    She has gone back and complained to the managers at the two stores she used but they both said that there is nothing they can do. They too are most unhappy about the whole question of parking restrictions and voiced their concerns at Park Management meetings, They have had many complaints and many customers have said they wont be using the Park anymore.

    I made a post on the Park's Facebook site yesterday, basically warning other potential customers of the dangers and cost of staying too long. I received a response saying that I should contact the managing agents and that if I could prove that the driver had been on the site all the time they would probably cancel the charge. I have now sent an email to the managing agents with copies of the stores till receipts and awaiting their reply.

    In the meantime, I presume that I should proceed with an appeal to PE and have drafted the following reply based on other recent threads. Would appreciate any criticisms or comments before I email it off to PE, just a bit concerned I may be saying too much.

    Dear PE
    Reference number: xxxxxxxxx

    I have received your invoice dated 10/10/2013.
    I am the registered of vehicle reg. xxxxxxxxx and wish to appeal the charge made in your invoice.

    The driver, who is a pensioner, has been using this car park for many years and had not noticed that any signs had been erected limiting the the length of time for parking.
    The driver was only accessing the car park in order to shop at the retail stores on site, as evidenced by the attached copies of till receipts, and as an elderly person walking and browsing round a large Shopping Park, 3 hours is not a sufficient time allowance.

    The driver has complained to the store managers on site and I have sent full details of the event to your client, the Park owners agent, who I am expecting to contact you with instructions to cancel the charge.

    In any event, as this is a free car park which was nowhere near full at the time, the charge being made does not reflect a true estimate of the loss incurred.

    If you reject this appeal, I will expect you to advise me of the basis for this charge, e.g. breach of contract?, trespass? and I expect you to supply me with a full breakdown of you loss caused by this event.
    I will, of course, also expect you to provide a POPLA code.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Me

    Sorry it's such a long post, I can see how much time and effort you guys are putting in to help us but it really is appreciated.
    Thanks.
    Last edited by thingamaBob; 18-10-2013 at 8:54 PM.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 13, 12:32 AM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,938 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 17th Oct 13, 12:32 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Oct 13, 12:32 AM
    Very nice example of good research, and action taken with the retail park, and yep, a good first challenge as well. If you have receipts and can attach copies of them to your PE appeal, our experience shows that they will cancel the charge.

    Let us know. It's not on though, is it, making customers do this?!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 12:42 AM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    • #3
    • 17th Oct 13, 12:42 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Oct 13, 12:42 AM
    Thanks Coupon-mad,

    No it's not on. If they just had reasonable parking charges on an open straightforward basis, no-one would mind but with these PCC's it's just a scam taking in the unwary and vulnerable. I just don't understand how the owners can permit it to happen as it can only drive (sorry about the pun) away the customers to the detriment of business.

    Think I'll get that email off now before going to bed.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 1:00 AM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    • #4
    • 17th Oct 13, 1:00 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Oct 13, 1:00 AM
    DO we know of an email address for PE?
    Looking on their PCN, they send you to their web site where they have contact form on which to send in the appeal and they don't actually give an email address. I assume if I use this, I won't have a copy so I would much rather use one of my email accounts.

    Sorry, just found it on pepipoo, appeals@parkingeye.co.uk

    I sent my appeal to this email address but had an automatic reply that it had not been accepted and said:

    "Thank you for contacting ParkingEye.
    Please be aware we have recently upgraded our Appeals process to allow submission of Appeals via our Web Site. Please submit appeals using: http://www.parkingeye.co.uk/Appeal
    If you cannot use the web form, then please send a written appeal to:
    Appeals,
    PO Box 565,
    Chorley,
    PR6 6HT.

    Presumably if you use the web form you will not be able to keep a copy so need to make sure you make some sort of copy/duplicate before sending.
    Last edited by thingamaBob; 17-10-2013 at 1:49 AM.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 13, 5:45 AM
    • 25,119 Posts
    • 40,519 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 13, 5:45 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Oct 13, 5:45 AM
    Just catching up on this. Excellent example of initial research, an understanding of the issues, and a clear and to-the-point initial appeal.

    Despite their highly aggressive approach and litigious nature, their worst excesses are slightly balanced by an occasional blink of reasonableness.

    The person I was helping (off forum), after me doing lots of research on here and PePiPoo, had their PCN cancelled by submission of evidence of shopping on the day (redacted credit card statement). It's what got me involved in all this stuff, and I hope I've caused PE enough problems through my inputs as a (100-fold) 'repayment' for their PCN that caused so much anxiety. 'As ye sow, so shall ye reap'

    We sent the paperwork snail mail, with proof of posting from the PO. So I wouldn't get too hung up on doing it electronically, the 'old fashioned way' works equally well.

    Keep us updated on progress.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 5:51 AM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 13, 5:51 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Oct 13, 5:51 AM
    Thanks for the comments and encouragement Umkomaas.
    I did send via the web site.
    Will post what happens next.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 17th Oct 13, 9:57 AM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 13, 9:57 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Oct 13, 9:57 AM
    [QUOTE It was lovely day and she was in no hurry, not that she can rush round much anyway these days[/QUOTE]

    Based on this sentence, and perhaps expansion of it, others here, most notably Coupon-Mad may have additional points you can raise under Equality Act 2010 if they don't cancel it for you based on your initial appeal.
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 10:12 AM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 13, 10:12 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Oct 13, 10:12 AM
    Wow, quick result here.
    Have just received an email from the Park owners agents, Workman LLP, saying "Given that you have provided copies of receipts for your purchases on the day, on this occasion we are happy to rescind the Parking Charge on the basis you were a genuine shopper."

    Good news, but as Coupon-mad said in post 2 "It's not on though, is it, making customers do this?!" Why should genuine shoppers, who are providing business for the stores which, in turn, makes rental profits for the Owners, be put through all this.

    I will advise further when I get confirmation from PE that the PCN has been cancelled.
    Last edited by thingamaBob; 18-10-2013 at 8:57 PM.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 13, 10:30 AM
    • 25,119 Posts
    • 40,519 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 13, 10:30 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Oct 13, 10:30 AM
    Wow, quick result here.
    Have just received an email from the Park owners agents saying "Given that you have provided copies of receipts for your purchases on the day, on this occasion we are happy to rescind the Parking Charge on the basis you were a genuine shopper."

    Good news, but as Coupon-mad said in post 2 "It's not on though, is it, making customers do this?!" Why should genuine shoppers, who are providing business for the stores which, in turn, makes rental profits for the Owners, be put through all this.

    I will advise further when I get confirmation from PE that the PCN has been cancelled.
    Originally posted by thingamaBob
    Well done Bob, one of the fastest yet. You'll go into Coupon's Hall of Fame now.

    Maybe we should also set up a leader board, like the one they have on Top Gear for the fastest lap, or that Saturday Kitchen thingy for the quickest fried omelette.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 10:36 AM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    Well done Bob, one of the fastest yet. You'll go into Coupon's Hall of Fame now.

    Maybe we should also set up a leader board, like the one they have on Top Gear for the fastest lap, or that Saturday Kitchen thingy for the quickest fried omelette.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Will it qualify for The Guinness Book of Records?
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • zaax
    • By zaax 17th Oct 13, 10:41 AM
    • 1,884 Posts
    • 747 Thanks
    zaax
    It's a pity peple dont name and shame these retail parks. As I could spend more than three hours at one of the shopping villages near me.
    Do you want your money back, and a bit more, search for 'money claim online' - They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Oct 13, 10:57 AM
    • 25,119 Posts
    • 40,519 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Will it qualify for The Guinness Book of Records?
    Originally posted by thingamaBob
    No, but it definitely qualifies for a Guinness tonight Bob

    I'll be thinking about you when I'm drinking mine ; you'd best keep off it - not good for your health
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in the critiquing of court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 11:19 AM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    No, but it definitely qualifies for a Guinness tonight Bob

    I'll be thinking about you when I'm drinking mine ; you'd best keep off it - not good for your health
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    I would willingly buy you and Coupon a drink or three.
    The amount of time and work you and the other regulars put in to help others and all for no personal gain is fantastic. I wouldn't have known where to start if wasn't for all the threads and brilliant advice I found here.
    So it's massive thanks to everyone who posts up their problem and those who supply the answers.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 13, 2:43 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,938 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    There's you and me first posting at silly o'clock this morning and within hours you've got it cancelled by the power of customer complaints. Well done!

    Have added your success here for posterity:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-10-2013 at 8:32 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 17th Oct 13, 7:48 PM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    There's you and me first posting at silly o'clock this morning and within hours you've got it cancelled by the power of customer complaints. Well done!

    Have added your success here for posterity:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4794620


    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I find it easier to think in the quiet hours of silly o'clock and can get more done but it was great to have some moral support. Can't thank you guys enough.

    Good result but a shame that they didn't have to fork out for the POPLA appeal.

    By the way, your link above is for this thread, so you just go round in circles.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Oct 13, 8:33 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,938 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Whoops, easily done but now sorted the link!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 18th Oct 13, 9:17 PM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    Posting to add detail not originally stated.
    Car park was at Brotherhood Shopping Park in Peterborough.
    Charge cancelled after email to Managing Agents, Workman LLP, with copies of 4 till receipts.
    The Park is owned by Aberdeen Asset Management, I wonder if they know how ParkingEye operate?
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 18th Oct 13, 11:18 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    I don't want to rain on your parade, but PE has form for failing to cancel the charge, even after being instructed to do so by their Principal.

    So I would drop PE a line with a copy of the e-mail from the landholder, and say you are looking forward to receiving confirmation that the charge has been cancelled.

    Daisy
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • thingamaBob
    • By thingamaBob 18th Oct 13, 11:29 PM
    • 17,875 Posts
    • 1,024,767 Thanks
    thingamaBob
    Hi zzzLazyDaisy,

    I was a little concerned about that. When I aknowledged the 1st email from the Agent I did say that I hoped I would also receive confirmation of cancellation from PE. They then replied saying that PE had confirmed to them that it had been cancelled and to get back to them if there was any problem.
    I will, however, do as you suggest as would really like confirmation on PE paper.
    Thanks.
    Bob
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam
  • ElFeedio
    Hi Bob
    Thanks for this thread, I am going through a similar problem at the same place. Could you let me know the email address you used for Workman LLP?
    Many thanks

    Feed
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