Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 16th Oct 13, 9:59 PM
    • 103Posts
    • 634Thanks
    glassy2010
    parking eye charge notice
    • #1
    • 16th Oct 13, 9:59 PM
    parking eye charge notice 16th Oct 13 at 9:59 PM
    hi there today my wife received a parking charge notice from parking eye

    Parking charge amount due 70
    payment to be made within 28 days of issue date :08/11/2013
    this parking charge is discounted to 40 if paid within 14 days of the date of issue: 25/10/2013

    her time in carpark was 1 hour 19 mins
    arrived 3/10/2013 16:55:58
    departure time 03/10/2013 18:15:39

    on the 03 october 2013 the vehicle ******* entered the wansbeck general hospital car park at 16:55:58 and departure at 03/10/2013 18:15:39.

    the signage which is clearly displayed at the enterence to and throughout the car park, states that this is private land, the car park is managed by parking eye ltd,and parking tariffs apply or a parking charge will be incurred, along with other terms and conditions of the car park by which those who park agree to be bound.

    by either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted, in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the parking charge is now payable to parking eye ltd (as the creditor).

    you are notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of shcedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. as we do not know the drivers name or current postal address ,if you were not the named driver at the time, you should tell us their name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them.

    you are warned that if after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the date issued), the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you.this warning is given to you under paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under schedule 4 of that act.

    should you provide an incorrect address for service, we will persue you for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid.

    should you identify someone, who denies they were the driver, we will persue you for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid


    1. it dosen't state what the charge is for eg. none payment or staying over the allotted time

    2. my girlfriend who owns the car was at an appointment and payed 2.40 in parking charges but didnt keep the reciept

    3. how do i go about proving that she payed?

    4.just a thought what devices do they have incase she maybe hit the wrong button while putting her reg plate into the machine (she insists she did it correctly)
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Oct 13, 10:06 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 13, 10:06 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 13, 10:06 PM
    She probably did make a typo with the car reg. This is a private firm and they couldn't care less I suspect - but we can beat them at appeal.

    You must NOT ignore PE as they are litigious against ignorers. So the registered keeper should appeal now you have this letter, NOT naming the driver nor implying who it was. Talk about it in these terms:


    Dear PE,

    'The driver did pay 2.40 and display, but the P&D ticket was obviously discarded at the time since the driver had no idea you were going to send this letter. I require you to check your records for payments made around xpm that day as I am sure there must be a non-matched car registration very similar to mine. This will be the payment made by the driver.

    If you should reject this appeal I will require a POPLA code because clearly you have made no loss, as the driver paid and displayed. The payment will be in your system so I trust you can find it and cancel this charge without me having to resort to POPLA and a complaint to Hospital Management.'


    You can do this online now, see the PE ticket. Let us know the response in due course, they'll have 35 days to respond.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 16th Oct 13, 10:09 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 13, 10:09 PM
    coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 13, 10:09 PM
    thanks ill get her to do it now ill keep you posted
    • Stroma
    • By Stroma 16th Oct 13, 11:31 PM
    • 7,917 Posts
    • 8,408 Thanks
    Stroma
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 13, 11:31 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Oct 13, 11:31 PM
    It's important to do this now, as you have identified yourself on a public forum where parking eye pay employees to monitor the website. See my signature below
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 30th Oct 13, 10:11 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    • #5
    • 30th Oct 13, 10:11 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Oct 13, 10:11 PM
    She probably did make a typo with the car reg. This is a private firm and they couldn't care less I suspect - but we can beat them at appeal.

    You must NOT ignore PE as they are litigious against ignorers. So the registered keeper should appeal now you have this letter, NOT naming the driver nor implying who it was. Talk about it in these terms:


    Dear PE,

    'The driver did pay 2.40 and display, but the P&D ticket was obviously discarded at the time since the driver had no idea you were going to send this letter. I require you to check your records for payments made around xpm that day as I am sure there must be a non-matched car registration very similar to mine. This will be the payment made by the driver.

    If you should reject this appeal I will require a POPLA code because clearly you have made no loss, as the driver paid and displayed. The payment will be in your system so I trust you can find it and cancel this charge without me having to resort to POPLA and a complaint to Hospital Management.'


    You can do this online now, see the PE ticket. Let us know the response in due course, they'll have 35 days to respond.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    hi again i made an appeal with some help from you guys and received this.



    dear sir/madam,

    thank you for your correspondence in relation to the parking charge incurred on ##/##/## at ##:## at the ######car-park.

    we are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been referred for further information.

    you have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the breach of terms and conditions of the car-park, but you have not indicated who was.

    you have already been notified that under section 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. as we do not know the drivers name or current postal address ,if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address.

    you are warned that if , after 29 days from the date given (wich is presumed to be the second working day after the date issued) the parking charge has not bee paid in full and we do not know tboth the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the charge from you, the registered keeper. this warning is given to you under paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under schedule 4 of that act.

    this parking charge has been placed on hold for 14 days in order for you to provide additional/further evidence.

    alternatively, payment can be made by telephoning our offices on ######## or by visiting ###### or by posting a cheque or postal order to the address detailed below

    if this charge has been paid and you choose to provide further evidence , please forward it to us for consideration

    yours faithfully parkingeye team

    what do i do now
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Oct 13, 11:55 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 30th Oct 13, 11:55 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Oct 13, 11:55 PM
    what do i do now
    Email them again using the PE online appeal site and refer to that letter and say:


    Re your letter dated xxxxxx re PCN number xxxxxxxxx.

    I find your response unjustified, unhelpful and misleading and we will be complaining to the Hospital. Your letter says 'if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address' which misstates the position as a parking company is only allowed to 'invite' a registered keeper to name the driver. There is no 'should' about it, I am certainly not obliged to name the driver and as keeper I am perfectly entitled to my POPLA code, so send it by return or cancel this charge without further stalling.

    I also note that you have completely failed to address the appeal point raised. I remind you that in my challenge I asked you to check your records for payments made around the same time of day as I am sure there must be a non-matched car registration very similar to mine. This will be the payment made by the driver; we assume there may well have been a simple typo. You are of course required under contract law to mitigate any 'loss' and yet you have made no attempt to locate the payment made by the driver nor to tell me the outcome of this simple check. Of course you have made no 'loss' at all flowing from this parking incident and that will be one of many appeal points I will put in my POPLA appeal if you do not cancel this spurious charge forthwith.




    ...and complain to the Hospital now! Start by finding the phone number of the PALS office which deals with Hospital complaints.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 14th Nov 13, 7:21 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 13, 7:21 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 13, 7:21 PM
    Email them again using the PE online appeal site and refer to that letter and say:


    Re your letter dated xxxxxx re PCN number xxxxxxxxx.

    I find your response unjustified, unhelpful and misleading and we will be complaining to the Hospital. Your letter says 'if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address' which misstates the position as a parking company is only allowed to 'invite' a registered keeper to name the driver. There is no 'should' about it, I am certainly not obliged to name the driver and as keeper I am perfectly entitled to my POPLA code, so send it by return or cancel this charge without further stalling.

    I also note that you have completely failed to address the appeal point raised. I remind you that in my challenge I asked you to check your records for payments made around the same time of day as I am sure there must be a non-matched car registration very similar to mine. This will be the payment made by the driver; we assume there may well have been a simple typo. You are of course required under contract law to mitigate any 'loss' and yet you have made no attempt to locate the payment made by the driver nor to tell me the outcome of this simple check. Of course you have made no 'loss' at all flowing from this parking incident and that will be one of many appeal points I will put in my POPLA appeal if you do not cancel this spurious charge forthwith.




    ...and complain to the Hospital now! Start by finding the phone number of the PALS office which deals with Hospital complaints.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    hi again replied as to your letter above and have now recived.

    reference: parking charge notice- ******/******

    dear sir / madame,

    thank you for your correspondence in relation to the parking charge incurred on ** ******* 20** at **:**, at ********* carpark

    we are writing to advise you that you have not provided the details required under scedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012

    you have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the breach of terms and conditions of the car-park, but you have not indicated who was.

    you have already been notified that under section 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. as we do not know the drivers name or current postal address ,if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address.

    you are again warned that if , after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the date issued) the parking charge has not bee paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the charge from you, the registered keeper. this warning is given to you under paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under schedule 4 of that act.

    this parking charge has been placed on hold for 14 days in order for you to provide these details

    alternatively, payment can be made by telephoning our offices on ######## or by visiting ###### or by posting a cheque or postal order to the address detailed below

    if this charge has been paid and you choose to provide further evidence relating to your appeal please forward this to us for consideration

    yours faithfully.

    parking eye

    again i never told them who was driving and again they havent given me a popla code thanx in advance for your help
    • Stroma
    • By Stroma 14th Nov 13, 7:38 PM
    • 7,917 Posts
    • 8,408 Thanks
    Stroma
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 13, 7:38 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 13, 7:38 PM
    I would put a complaint into the dvla and bpa on this, they are deliberately being obstructive, they have rejected your appeal they must supply a popla code.

    I would write again


    Hello Parking Eye

    Thank you for your response dated xxxxx, I note those details, and remind you that you are using the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and the BPA Code of Practice to issue your invoices .

    So as you subscribe to abide by both, now I am sure you don't need me to state which parts you are in breach of, because as a parking company you know your obligations!

    Now I ask you either to uphold the appeal or supply a popla verification code, this is the third time you are being asked this, you are being deliberately obstructive, and if you instigate any small claims they will defended fully, and your obvious refusal to allow dispute resolution before any claim.

    Now make a decision, as I grow tired of asking you !
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 14th Nov 13, 7:40 PM
    • 10,891 Posts
    • 10,394 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 13, 7:40 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 13, 7:40 PM
    Dear Parking Eye,

    As you are not willing to check your records, then I am quite happy to take it to the next stage.

    My appeal point is that a ticket was purchased - regrettably long since destroyed - and it is possible that an incorrect registration number was input.

    If you are unwilling to accept this appeal point and cancel the ticket, then please send me a POPLA code in order that I can appeal to them on the grounds that no loss was incurred by you or the landowner as a ticket was purchased and the amount you are demanding exceeds any genuine losses either you or the landowner have incurred.

    Yours faithfully,




    Keeper
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 14th Nov 13, 10:24 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    [QUOTE=Stroma;63774749]I would put a complaint into the dvla and bpa on this, they are deliberately being obstructive, they have rejected your appeal they must supply a popla code.

    how do i go about a dvla and bpa complaint?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Nov 13, 10:27 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Covered in two sticky threads:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

    HTH
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 15th Nov 13, 8:52 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    [QUOTE=glassy2010;63776537]
    I would put a complaint into the dvla and bpa on this, they are deliberately being obstructive, they have rejected your appeal they must supply a popla code.

    how do i go about a dvla and bpa complaint?
    Originally posted by Stroma
    i have read through your sticky notes and am going to write my complaint tomorrow should i

    1. tell them the ticket reference number who the ticket is from and the date and time i received it

    1. tell them i have asked to look for any unmatched registrations from that time

    1. tell them they are being obtrusive and not either upholding my appeal or supplying me with a popla code so i can take this further

    1. tell them i have sent 3 e-mails to no avail

    and anything else i may need to add

    thanx in advance
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Nov 13, 11:10 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yep that would do and remind Steve Clark at the BPA that he emailed all AOS members only a couple of months ago to remind them that in section 22 of the BPA code of Practice it states that 'drivers and keepers' can appeal to POPLA. Why are ParkingEye thinking that part of the BPA CoP doesn't apply to them?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 17th Nov 13, 12:09 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    Yep that would do and remind Steve Clark at the BPA that he emailed all AOS members only a couple of months ago to remind them that in section 22 of the BPA code of Practice it states that 'drivers and keepers' can appeal to POPLA. Why are ParkingEye thinking that part of the BPA CoP doesn't apply to them?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    i have writen my e-mail to dvla bpa and the nhs patient services is there any way i could get some1 to cast a glance over it without posting the whole thing on here for every1 to see it??
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 18th Nov 13, 7:20 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    i have e-mailed the dvla, the british parking association and the hospital patient services department today

    had a reply from british parking association

    Thanks for your e-mail, the contents of which are noted.



    By copy I am asking my Operations Manager to look into this matter for you he will be in touch shortly.



    Kind regards


    Steve Clark

    Head of Operational Services

    recived a reply from patient services

    Thank you for your email which I have passed to the Operational Services Manager responsible for the management of the car parks. I have asked him to look into the issues you have raised and contact your directly with the outcome within the next 24 hours.
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 20th Nov 13, 7:10 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    hi again guys received my popla code today i was given it by david metcalf operational manager of the bpa after a referral from steve clark recommended on your forum so thanx guys

    i know i now have to trawl through all popla appeal wins what are the main things im looking for? thanx in advance
    At the end of a long struggle is a good rest! Proud to be dealing with my debts DFW #1471
    lightbulb moment 23/11/13 current debts 10380 debt free date march 2018
    1% Club 5%/100% Roadkill Rebel #55 january 0.01
    S.P.C#159 aim 400 stars
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Nov 13, 8:40 PM
    • 76,597 Posts
    • 89,939 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well add this bit:

    ''The driver did pay 2.40 and display, but the P&D ticket was obviously discarded at the time since the driver had no idea you were going to send this letter. I require you to check your records for payments made around xpm that day as I am sure there must be a non-matched car registration very similar to mine. This will be the payment made by the driver.''


    suitably reworded (to change the 'you/your' to 'ParkingEye') to the usual paragraph about 'no genuine pre-estimate of loss'.

    You will see that paragraph and all the other usual winners (several paragraphs needed), here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=62180281&posted=1

    HTH and there are so many examples you should find a relevant PE one to adapt. Show us what you cobble together as we want to help you to win.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 21st Nov 13, 12:23 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    popla appeal first draft
    Show us what you cobble together as we want to help you to win.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    a first draft hope this is somewere near ive now got square eyes lol

    RE: POPLA code XXXXXX
    Vehicle Registration: xxxxxx
    PPC: ParkingEye
    PCN ref: XXXXXXX
    Alleged Contravention Date: xxxxxx
    Date of notice: xxxxxxxx
    Alleged Contravention: either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permited
    I am the registered Keeper of the above vehicle and I am appealing against above charge. I contend that I am not liable for the parking charge onthe following grounds and would ask that they are all considered.
    1. Entering, Parking and Exiting
    2. Parking Eye Ltd’s legal capacity to enforce/issue Parking Charge Notice
    3. ANPR accuracy
    4. The amount demanded is not a Genuine Pre-estimate of loss
    5. Business rates
    6. FAILED TO COMPLY WITH INITIAL REQUEST FOR A POPLA CODE


    1. Entering, Parking and Exiting
    The Respondent uses camera’s at the entrance/exit of the retail park. The cameras only record the time that a vehicle enters the car park and when it leaves, they do not record the actual parking event nor the point at which the contract to park is entered into. There are five separate actions involved here that relate to the parking event.
    1.Driving into the car park. (Entry time recorded on camera).
    2.Parking the car in an empty parking space.
    3.Reading the terms and conditions of parking offered at the retail park.
    4.Acceptance of those terms and conditions by remaining at the car park.
    5.Driving out of the parking space.
    6.Driving out of the hospital car park. (Exit time recorded on camera).
    The times of the actual ‘parking under contract’ event therefore differ significantly from the entry and exit times recorded by the cameras. Furthermore, the system takes no account of the regular problems in effecting a speedy departure due to the road layout and exit onto the highway. The alleged parking offence took place on a Thursday afternoon at 18:15. There are frequent tail backs and it is not uncommon for a motorist to wait some time to leave, during which time, when not parked but waiting to get out time soon ticks away until one is at the front of the queue and the camera captures the exit image.

    The BPA Ltd Code of Practice requires that parking operators can only rely on camera evidence if it does so in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Thus the Respondent has failed to recognize that it takes time to get in, find a space, consider the terms and conditions and then eventually to leave.
    The Respondent’s claim for a parking charge for an alleged overstay based solely on the entry and exit times recorded by cameras is therefore fatally flawed and cannot be relied upon, on a balance of probabilities, to prove its case. This is particularly relevant in my case as the overstay in the car park has been recorded as only 19 minutes.


    2. Parking Eye Ltd’s legal capacity to enforce/issue Parking Charge Notices
    Firstly I would like to point out that, in their correspondence with me, Parking Eye have not produced any evidence to demonstrate that they have the necessary legal capacity to charge the driver of a vehicle using the car park. Nor that they have any proprietary interest in this particular piece of land in wansbeck ashington.
    Accordingly, I kindly ask you to check whether or not Parking Eye have provided an up-to date, signed copy of the contract or agreement with the landowner – one which states that they are entitled to pursue these matters through issuing PCNs and through the courts. I would require that this is an actual copy and not simply a document which claims that such a contract or agreement exists.
    it was stated that a third party agent cannot pursue such a charge anyway, as was found in ParkingEye v Sharma:Case No. 3QT62646 in the Brentford County Court23/10/2013. District Judge Jenkins dismissed the case on the grounds that the parking contract was a commercial matter between Parking Eye and the landowner, and didn’t create any contractual relationship with motorists who used the car park. I submit that this applies in this case as well.
    3. ANPR Accuracy
    ParkingEye are obliged to make sure the APNR equipment is in working order, as described in paragraph 21.3 of the British Parking Association's Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice, version 3 of June 2013. I require ParkingEye to present records as to the dates and times of when the cameras were checked, calibrated and generally maintained to ensure the accuracy of the dates and times of any ANPR images. This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times
    I would like to challenge Parking eye to strict proof of compliance with the BPA CoP re: maintenance of ANPR equipment and ask for documentary evidence of maintenance and calibration, also I challenge challenge parkingeye for proof of compliancein DPA registration (data collecting CCTV)
    it is vital that ParkingEye produce strict proof in response to these points. This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times
    4. The amount demanded is not a Genuine Pre-estimate of loss

    The wording on the signs appears to indicate that the parking charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract - liquidated damages, in other words compensation agreed in advance. Accordingly, the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The estimate must be based upon loss following from a breach of the parking terms. This might be, for example, loss of parking revenue.
    The parking company submitted that the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of the losses incurred in managing the parking location.
    The entirety of the parking charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss in order to be enforceable. I require the parking company to submit a breakdown of how these costs are calculated. All of these costs must represent a loss resulting from the alleged breach.

    For example, were no breach to have occurred then the cost of parking enforcement (for example, erecting signage, wages, uniforms, office costs) would still have been the same and, therefore, may not be included.

    It would, therefore, follow that these charges were punitive, have an element of profit included and are not allowed to be imposed by parking companies.
    Furthermore, I attach a letter from Parking Eye in correspondence with another case, that admits that their estimate of cost in each case is actually 53, including operating costs, and this that the charge they are seeking to impose in my case (70) has a considerable element of profit as well as operating costs incorporated. By their own admission, therefore, It can not, be a true pre-estimate of loss
    The driver did pay 2.40 and display, but the P&D ticket was obviously discarded at the time since the driver had no idea parkingeye were going to send this letter. I require parkingeye to check your records for payments made around 16:55pm that day as I am sure there must be a non-matched car registration very similar to mine. This will be the payment made by the driver.
    I quote


    "The Operator submitted that the charge is based upon the cost of enforcing parking restrictions at the site (for example, by erecting signage and employing administrative staff) and the charge was agreed by the land owner and specified on site signage.


    However, this does not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the parking contract. The loss specified by the Operator is the cost of providing parking enforcement at the site. In other words, were no breach to have occurred the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same.



    Consequently, I have no evidence before me to refute the Appellant’s submission that the parking charge is unenforceable.


    I must allow the appeal on this ground.

    Matthew Shaw

    Assessor

    5. Business rates
    As this car park is now being used for the purpose of running a business by ParkingEye, which is entirely separate from any other business the car park services, and generates revenue and profit for ParkingEye, I do not believe that ParkingEye has declared the running of their business venture at this location to the Local Valuation Office and Local Authority for the purpose of the payment of Business Rates.

    I put ParkingEye to strict proof that they have so registered the business they are operating at wansbeck general hospital car park with the Valuation Office and to provide proof that Business Rates are being paid to the Local Authority, or to provide proof or explanation of their exemption from such Business Rates.
    6. FAILED TO COMPLY WITH INITIAL REQUEST FOR A POPLA CODE

    I contacted ParkingEye on 12th October 2013 and clearly stated that I (as registered keeper) denied all liability to their company and asked them to uphold my appeal or supply me with a POPLA verification code for me to appeal independently as per the BPA Code of Practice.
    I would assume the appeal will be deemed accepted if there is no POPLA code on any rejection that you supply.
    They went on to further attempt to bully me “If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.”
    I have sent 3 appeals via the parking Eye website, i have asked them to recheck there records and also to check for any mismatched registration and parking Eye are taking no notice they are being obtrusive and not either upholding my appeal or supplying me with a popla code so i can take this further.

    it was only after e-mailing steve.c@britishparking.co.uk, patient.services@nhct.nhs.uk and elizabeth.symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk that steve clark refered me to david Metcalf the bpa operations manager her contacted parking eye and was told my popla code was send by post on the 15th of November
    on the 20th of November I received a letter from parkingeye with my popla code dated the 18th of November which is odd seeing as how they informed david Metcalf of the bpa that it had been sent on novermber15th.
    ParkingEye ignored this requirement. They therefore failed to comply with the BPA Code of Practice. They went on to further attempt to bully


    SUMMARY

    On the basis of all the points I have raised, this 'charge' fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the BPA CoP and also fails to comply with basic contract law.
    I put ParkingEye to strict proof of the above points and would like to mention Mention Somerfield -v- Parking Eye where PE did not have right to pursue motorists to court, only ticket them and send letters.
    I respectfully request that this appeal be allowed.
    Yours faithfully
    (registered keeper)
    At the end of a long struggle is a good rest! Proud to be dealing with my debts DFW #1471
    lightbulb moment 23/11/13 current debts 10380 debt free date march 2018
    1% Club 5%/100% Roadkill Rebel #55 january 0.01
    S.P.C#159 aim 400 stars
    • 4consumerrights
    • By 4consumerrights 21st Nov 13, 1:43 AM
    • 1,960 Posts
    • 2,842 Thanks
    4consumerrights
    a first draft hope this is somewere near ive now got square eyes lol

    RE: POPLA code XXXXXX
    Vehicle Registration: xxxxxx
    PPC: ParkingEye
    PCN ref: XXXXXXX
    Alleged Contravention Date: xxxxxx
    Date of notice: xxxxxxxx
    Alleged Contravention: either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permited
    I am the registered Keeper of the above vehicle and I am appealing against above charge. I contend that I am not liable for the parking charge onthe following grounds and would ask that they are all considered.
    1. Entering, Parking and Exiting
    2. Parking Eye Ltd’s legal capacity to enforce/issue Parking Charge Notice
    3. ANPR accuracy
    4. The amount demanded is not a Genuine Pre-estimate of loss
    5. Business rates
    6. FAILED TO COMPLY WITH INITIAL REQUEST FOR A POPLA CODE


    1. Entering, Parking and Exiting
    The Respondent uses camera’s at the entrance/exit of the retail park. The cameras only record the time that a vehicle enters the car park and when it leaves, they do not record the actual parking event nor the point at which the contract to park is entered into. There are five separate actions involved here that relate to the parking event.
    1.Driving into the car park. (Entry time recorded on camera).
    2.Parking the car in an empty parking space.
    3.Reading the terms and conditions of parking offered at the retail park.
    4.Acceptance of those terms and conditions by remaining at the car park.
    5.Driving out of the parking space.
    6.Driving out of the hospital car park. (Exit time recorded on camera).
    The times of the actual ‘parking under contract’ event therefore differ significantly from the entry and exit times recorded by the cameras. Furthermore, the system takes no account of the regular problems in effecting a speedy departure due to the road layout and exit onto the highway. The alleged parking offence took place on a Thursday afternoon at 18:15. There are frequent tail backs and it is not uncommon for a motorist to wait some time to leave, during which time, when not parked but waiting to get out time soon ticks away until one is at the front of the queue and the camera captures the exit image.

    The BPA Ltd Code of Practice requires that parking operators can only rely on camera evidence if it does so in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Thus the Respondent has failed to recognize that it takes time to get in, find a space, consider the terms and conditions and then eventually to leave.
    The Respondent’s claim for a parking charge for an alleged overstay based solely on the entry and exit times recorded by cameras is therefore fatally flawed and cannot be relied upon, on a balance of probabilities, to prove its case. This is particularly relevant in my case as the overstay in the car park has been recorded as only 19 minutes.


    2. Parking Eye Ltd’s legal capacity to enforce/issue Parking Charge Notices
    Firstly I would like to point out that, in their correspondence with me, Parking Eye have not produced any evidence to demonstrate that they have the necessary legal capacity to charge the driver of a vehicle using the car park. Nor that they have any proprietary interest in this particular piece of land in wansbeck ashington.
    Accordingly, I kindly ask you to check whether or not Parking Eye have provided an up-to date, signed copy of the contract or agreement with the landowner – one which states that they are entitled to pursue these matters through issuing PCNs and through the courts. I would require that this is an actual copy and not simply a document which claims that such a contract or agreement exists.
    it was stated that a third party agent cannot pursue such a charge anyway, as was found in ParkingEye v Sharma:Case No. 3QT62646 in the Brentford County Court23/10/2013. District Judge Jenkins dismissed the case on the grounds that the parking contract was a commercial matter between Parking Eye and the landowner, and didn’t create any contractual relationship with motorists who used the car park. I submit that this applies in this case as well.
    3. ANPR Accuracy
    ParkingEye are obliged to make sure the APNR equipment is in working order, as described in paragraph 21.3 of the British Parking Association's Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice, version 3 of June 2013. I require ParkingEye to present records as to the dates and times of when the cameras were checked, calibrated and generally maintained to ensure the accuracy of the dates and times of any ANPR images. This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times
    I would like to challenge Parking eye to strict proof of compliance with the BPA CoP re: maintenance of ANPR equipment and ask for documentary evidence of maintenance and calibration, also I challenge challenge parkingeye for proof of compliancein DPA registration (data collecting CCTV)
    it is vital that ParkingEye produce strict proof in response to these points. This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times
    4. The amount demanded is not a Genuine Pre-estimate of loss

    The wording on the signs appears to indicate that the parking charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract - liquidated damages, in other words compensation agreed in advance. Accordingly, the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The estimate must be based upon loss following from a breach of the parking terms. This might be, for example, loss of parking revenue.
    The parking company submitted that the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of the losses incurred in managing the parking location.
    The entirety of the parking charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss in order to be enforceable. I require the parking company to submit a breakdown of how these costs are calculated. All of these costs must represent a loss resulting from the alleged breach.

    For example, were no breach to have occurred then the cost of parking enforcement (for example, erecting signage, wages, uniforms, office costs) would still have been the same and, therefore, may not be included.

    It would, therefore, follow that these charges were punitive, have an element of profit included and are not allowed to be imposed by parking companies.
    Furthermore, I attach a letter from Parking Eye in correspondence with another case, that admits that their estimate of cost in each case is actually 53, including operating costs, and this that the charge they are seeking to impose in my case (70) has a considerable element of profit as well as operating costs incorporated. By their own admission, therefore, It can not, be a true pre-estimate of loss
    The driver did pay 2.40 and display, but the P&D ticket was obviously discarded at the time since the driver had no idea parkingeye were going to send this letter. I require parkingeye to check your records for payments made around 16:55pm that day as I am sure there must be a non-matched car registration very similar to mine. This will be the payment made by the driver.
    I quote


    "The Operator submitted that the charge is based upon the cost of enforcing parking restrictions at the site (for example, by erecting signage and employing administrative staff) and the charge was agreed by the land owner and specified on site signage.


    However, this does not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the parking contract. The loss specified by the Operator is the cost of providing parking enforcement at the site. In other words, were no breach to have occurred the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same.



    Consequently, I have no evidence before me to refute the Appellant’s submission that the parking charge is unenforceable.


    I must allow the appeal on this ground.

    Matthew Shaw

    Assessor

    5. Business rates
    As this car park is now being used for the purpose of running a business by ParkingEye, which is entirely separate from any other business the car park services, and generates revenue and profit for ParkingEye, I do not believe that ParkingEye has declared the running of their business venture at this location to the Local Valuation Office and Local Authority for the purpose of the payment of Business Rates.

    I put ParkingEye to strict proof that they have so registered the business they are operating at wansbeck general hospital car park with the Valuation Office and to provide proof that Business Rates are being paid to the Local Authority, or to provide proof or explanation of their exemption from such Business Rates.
    6. FAILED TO COMPLY WITH INITIAL REQUEST FOR A POPLA CODE

    I contacted ParkingEye on 12th October 2013 and clearly stated that I (as registered keeper) denied all liability to their company and asked them to uphold my appeal or supply me with a POPLA verification code for me to appeal independently as per the BPA Code of Practice.
    I would assume the appeal will be deemed accepted if there is no POPLA code on any rejection that you supply.
    They went on to further attempt to bully me “If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.”
    I have sent 3 appeals via the parking Eye website, i have asked them to recheck there records and also to check for any mismatched registration and parking Eye are taking no notice they are being obtrusive and not either upholding my appeal or supplying me with a popla code so i can take this further.

    it was only after e-mailing steve.c@britishparking.co.uk, patient.services@nhct.nhs.uk and elizabeth.symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk that steve clark refered me to david Metcalf the bpa operations manager her contacted parking eye and was told my popla code was send by post on the 15th of November
    on the 20th of November I received a letter from parkingeye with my popla code dated the 18th of November which is odd seeing as how they informed david Metcalf of the bpa that it had been sent on novermber15th.
    ParkingEye ignored this requirement. They therefore failed to comply with the BPA Code of Practice. They went on to further attempt to bully


    SUMMARY

    On the basis of all the points I have raised, this 'charge' fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the BPA CoP and also fails to comply with basic contract law.
    I put ParkingEye to strict proof of the above points and would like to mention Mention Somerfield -v- Parking Eye where PE did not have right to pursue motorists to court, only ticket them and send letters.
    I respectfully request that this appeal be allowed.
    Yours faithfully
    (registered keeper)
    Originally posted by glassy2010
    ***********************

    Glassy2010 - you have got the winning points included for a successful POPLA appeal

    However it is quite clearly evident you have just copy and pasted sections of text from various threads(mainly guy's dads core popla thread and winning POPLA's appeals and just added your own sentence here and there. It is better to read and understand fully each point and then try and write it in your own words where possible

    The section regarding genuine pre-estimate of loss needs to be completely reworded as you have copied chunks from POPLA decisions, Guy's dads template and how the Assessor responds to the PPC's submissions - which has not even occurred yet and even included his name!

    By all means submit a copy of the letter that PE have produced which states the operating costs - this can be done as additional evidence with a reference in your own words contained in the body of the appeal.

    You also need to add that PE have breached other codes of practice. (as well as the POPLA one)
    eg misleading information regarding driver/keeper and rights to appeal
    not being specific what the alleged breach is - WHAT IS IT ANYWAY?
    the ticket machine non-compliant and/or unclear instructions to operation.

    how long did you pay for? -reasonable grace periods are required for entering and deciding to stay AND for leaving at the end of the paid parking time before charges are made.
    e
    Last edited by 4consumerrights; 21-11-2013 at 2:10 AM. Reason: additional lines
    • glassy2010
    • By glassy2010 21st Nov 13, 5:49 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 634 Thanks
    glassy2010
    hi guys recived this today while i was at work

    Tracey.Davidson@northumbria-healthcare.nhs.uk

    I have received notification from Veronica Gingell, Operational Services Manager that the parking charge notice has been cancelled. She has however asked for an explanation from Parking Eye and once I am in receipt of this I will contact you further.



    I hope this is acceptable.



    Kind Regard

    Tracey Davidson

    im going to sound daft here but is that all i need
    do i need them to send me proof its been cancelled
    do i still write a popla appeal??

    thanx again
    At the end of a long struggle is a good rest! Proud to be dealing with my debts DFW #1471
    lightbulb moment 23/11/13 current debts 10380 debt free date march 2018
    1% Club 5%/100% Roadkill Rebel #55 january 0.01
    S.P.C#159 aim 400 stars
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

858Posts Today

6,364Users online

Martin's Twitter